Weightlifting for Kiwis - Discussion and support regarding the art of swole

[The Stranger]

Yep, agreed, but I meant exercises primarily meant for rear delts, when you really want to prioritize them and hit them hard. So it's one vote for bent over raises, thank you.

If you're talking about isolation your only real options are the bent-over lat raises, reverse pec dec (which is the exact same movement, just on a machine), or face pulls

 

[24nagging]

What do you guys do for your rear delts?

personally: seated reverse cable fly
however, when ever you want to train a muscle you have to understand the purpose of that muscle (aka how it moves). In this case, horizontal abduction (among other things). So rows and reverse fly will target the rear delt, the only difference between the two is if the elbow is bent (which involves other muscles of the back obviously).
face pulls, barbell or dumbbell rows, pull ups, chin ups, lat pulldowns, etc, are all variations of a row
reverse cable or dumbbell fly, reverse pec deck, etc, are all variations of a reverse fly

 

[JamFlowMan]

Yep, agreed, but I meant exercises primarily meant for rear delts, when you really want to prioritize them and hit them hard. So it's one vote for bent over raises, thank you.

I do chest supported rows on an incline bench. You could also do chest supported flys.

 

[mars]

between the two is if the elbow is bent (which involves other muscles of the back obviously).

A bent elbow has nothing to do with back muscles being engaged or not. Your rear delt helps moves your upper arm. Anything below that is inconsequential. The rear delt is strongest in horizontal abduction so that's the generally the best plane to train it in. You'll never totally isolate it but that's fine.

 

[The Stranger]

A bent elbow has nothing to do with back muscles being engaged or not. Your rear delt helps moves your upper arm. Anything below that is inconsequential. The rear delt is strongest in horizontal abduction so that's the generally the best plane to train it in. You'll never totally isolate it but that's fine.

I think he just meant that the bending of the elbow in the row movement involves other muscles on top of the rear delts and back, but both flies and rows hit the rear delts

 

[24nagging]

A bent elbow has nothing to do with back muscles being engaged or not.

it literally is
do a horizontal abduction with your arms straight, parallel to the ground. You'll fell your rear delts, and a bit of lower traps
now do a horizontal abduction with your arms parallel to the ground. You will 100% guarantee you will feel your lower traps a lot more engaged
a bent elbow has everything to do with how the back activates, and the angle of the arms determines which part. There isn't a back movement where your arms are streight out

 

[The Stranger]

it literally is
do a horizontal abduction with your arms straight, parallel to the ground. You'll fell your rear delts, and a bit of lower traps
now do a horizontal abduction with your arms parallel to the ground. You will 100% guarantee you will feel your lower traps a lot more engaged
a bent elbow has everything to do with how the back activates, and the angle of the arms determines which part. There isn't a back movement where your arms are streight out

There are straight-arm cable pulldowns and straight-arm dumbbell rows that are used for isolating the lats and rear delts. The lats attach to the humorous, they don't care about the position of the elbow.

 

[24nagging]

There are straight-arm cable pulldowns and straight-arm dumbbell rows that are used for isolating the lats and rear delts. The lats attach to the humorous, they don't care about the position of the elbow.

I'll concede on this point
However the point still stands. The back is better engaged when you bent your elbows

 

[mars]

I'll concede on this point
However the point still stands. The back is better engaged when you bent your elbows

You ever done a lat pullover? The back does not care what position your elbows are in. It only cares about the path of the upper arm as it is only connected to the upper arm. Yes people bend their elbows when they do a lot of lat exercises but that's because of how the arms work, not how the back works. That's why a lat pullover and a close grip lat pulldown are the exact same movement. That's why a rear delt fly and an archer pull work your rear delts exactly the same.

The same goes for your pecs and all heads of the delt. Your pecs don't care about your elbows being bent, that's why you can work them with both presses and flies. You can do your side delt lateral raises with your arms straight out or any level of bent and it's the same stimulus (obv different difficulties because of the lever arm but you get it.) If a muscle is only attached to one thing then it can only move that one thing.

 

[ESPer]

That's why a rear delt fly and an archer pull work your rear delts exactly the same.

Arguable, the angle you pull from drastically changes rear delt engagement and I feel like secondary muscle engagement for both exercises would be different.
But I see your point so don't let me derail or anything.

Your pecs don't care about your elbows being bent, that's why you can work them with both presses and flies.

There's no way chest flies can engage the entire pec like bench press can. Even if you were to have a massive ROM with a chest fly, it will start pulling on your front delt for more support and that's not going to benefit your chest in the slightest.

 

[ESPer]

What do you guys do for your rear delts? Looking for simple and effective options that don't belong in the "do it 5% wrong and it's not a rear delt exercise anymore" category.

Lateral pullovers won, I'd always use 2 ropes to get the best ROM ( or just one big one if your gym as one ) , but after a while I switched to a 1 armed variation to reduce the load on my lats since all my back day compound movements involve the lats one way or another
I might honestly go back to regular pullovers, I don't think any other rear delt movement beats it

 

[mars]

There's no way chest flies can engage the entire pec like bench press can. Even if you were to have a massive ROM with a chest fly, it will start pulling on your front delt for more support and that's not going to benefit your chest in the slightest.

Flies are arguably better at isolating the chest because they take triceps completely out equation and yes, better rom for the chest (unless you have a converging chest press, which my gym does and it's GREAT). Your front delt is active in both presses and flies since it helps with horizontal adduction of the upper arm. There's no way to keep it out of the movement. However your chest will fatigue before your front delts will in flies. Your pecs want to bring your upper arm in, up, or down and all movements that move your upper arm like that will work your pecs. (once you get too far up the front delt really takes over but you really only have to worry about that with a very high incline press)

That's not to say presses are completely inferior or anything. My main chest movements are presses because I enjoy them more than flies. You can get a big chest doing presses or flies. People should probably do both if they really want to maximize gains and strength but picking your favorite is fine.

 

[ESPer]

Flies are arguably better at isolating the chest because they take triceps completely out equation and yes, better rom for the chest (unless you have a converging chest press, which my gym does and it's GREAT). Your front delt is active in both presses and flies since it helps with horizontal adduction of the upper arm. There's no way to keep it out of the movement. However your chest will fatigue before your front delts will in flies. Your pecs want to bring your upper arm in, up, or down and all movements that move your upper arm like that will work your pecs. (once you get too far up the front delt really takes over but you really only have to worry about that with a very high incline press)

For raw isolation then yeah, I guess flies beat bench press or any press movement for that matter. But you will never get the same strain and tension at such an ROM as that of press movement that takes your chest all the way back. I think dumbell bench press beats flat bench in this regard but I appreciate the form consistency you can get with heavier weight on a bench press so I still prefer this
And idk about you but my biceps feel engaged on chest flies and I don't fuck with that. I'd rather engage my pushing muscles only on my push day
I could say the same about dips aswell, there's just no way that high-to-low chest flies can compared to weighted dips for getting that much tension in comparison

 

[Dead-Action Role Player]

What do you guys do for your rear delts? Looking for simple and effective options that don't belong in the "do it 5% wrong and it's not a rear delt exercise anymore" category.

I bought a chest expander, it feels way better than my gym's pec deck (which honestly just kinda sucks). Pec deck is for PECS simple as.
I'd also recommend behind the neck presses if your shoulders can handle those, maybe try to do it seated in a smith machine if doing it with a barbell feels awkward.

 

[Swine Schwein]

I bought a chest expander, it feels way better than my gym's pec deck (which honestly just kinda sucks). Pec deck is for PECS simple as.
I'd also recommend behind the neck presses if your shoulders can handle those, maybe try to do it seated in a smith machine if doing it with a barbell feels awkward.

Motherfucker, I've been thinking about getting one of those. Been doing rear delt flies with bands/rings (for some reason I get a better contraction that way than with weights, not to mention less shoulder pain) mostly, a little skiers on an incline bench, but it just feels like I'm missing one banger move.

Still going to try chest supported flies w/weights a bit and give it a good go, but I am actually quite interested in a chest expander.

If I went to a gym, which I don't because I'm retarded and silly, reverse pec deck would absolutely be my jam but what are you gonna do.

 

[Easy-Off Bam]

(32m) i only started working out early last year with some adjustable dumbbells and a bench at home after never working out before
the max i can comfortably do is 18kg per arm (bench presses/incline/rows etc) (usually 10 reps 5 sets)

i can definitely lift more compared to when i started, and am not working out every day (push mon pull thurs, mixed sat + 10k steps 5/7 days)

is this because i'm weak or is it because i only really started lifting in the last 2 years

 

[24nagging]

(32m) i only started working out early last year with some adjustable dumbbells and a bench at home after never working out before
the max i can comfortably do is 18kg per arm (bench presses/incline/rows etc) (usually 10 reps 5 sets)

i can definitely lift more compared to when i started, and am not working out every day (push mon pull thurs, mixed sat + 10k steps 5/7 days)

is this because i'm weak or is it because i only really started lifting in the last 2 years

it's both because you are "new" to this, may have bad technique, and you are old. Not reasons to give up tho, keep it up
I recommend you going to failure a couple times, know how that feels like, and then start lifting for sets of 1 or 2 reps in reserve

 

[The Stranger]

the max i can comfortably do

Do you have joint pain if you go heavier or something? It's not supposed to hurt but it's not supposed to be comfortable either. If you finish an exercise and did 5 sets of 10 reps at a certain weight then do 5 pounds heavier the next time.

 

[ESPer]

Do you have joint pain if you go heavier or something? It's not supposed to hurt but it's not supposed to be comfortable either. If you finish an exercise and did 5 sets of 10 reps at a certain weight then do 5 pounds heavier the next time.

5 sets of 10 nigga??
I do 1 working set to failure and aim for at least 6 reps
Anymore than that and I don’t progress consistently at all

 

[The Stranger]

5 sets of 10 nigga??
I do 1 working set to failure and aim for at least 6 reps
Anymore than that and I don’t progress consistently at all

Yea well the post isn't about you. The dude says he usually does 5x10 so that's what I stuck with