Weightlifting for Kiwis - Discussion and support regarding the art of swole

[ESPer]

Yea well the post isn't about you. The dude says he usually does 5x10 so that's what I stuck with

OOPS! sorry bout that

 

[ESPer]

is this because i'm weak or is it because i only really started lifting in the last 2 years

Discomfort is what creates change; you gain strength and size based by always pushing yourself just a little bit.
There are many ways you can act this 'pushing yourself' out, a very popular method that most online influencers like to shill is called 'progressive overloading'.
For example:
Incline DB press
week 1 - 20kg x 8 reps
week 2 - 22.5kg x 6 reps
week 3 - 22.5kg x 8 reps
week 4 - 25kg x 6 reps

Increase the weight, and try to get as close to failure as possible. Depending on your goals, you might do 2-3 working sets or just 1 working set and go to absolute muscular failure.
This depends on if you want strength or size (strength favouring more sets - lower rep range | Size favouring limited working sets - lots of reps)
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When you say you can 'comfortably' lift 18kg, I must remind you that exercise is not meant to be comfortable in the slightest. In-fact, it is the discomfort itself that should signal to your brain that change and adaptation is required. On the cellular level and a psychological level; discomfort signals to your brain / body that it needs to adapt to something. If you never step out of your comfort zone, and never even approach that last 5%, you will never improve beyond this point.

Beyond that, you of course have to hit a protein goal every day. If you're not getting 0.8g - 1g of protein per pound of body weight then you're leaving alot of gains on the table.

 

[071+05]

it's also important to properly fuel up both before and after the workout, but especially before. you half to have the sufficient energy storage needed to do high intensity shit, and to have energy left to do it again (this is why recovery is important too). have tons of carbs pre-w/o, and replenish with electrolytes and maybe some protein.
though this is from someone who's largely only focused on building muscle, idk how it works for someone losing weight.

 

[ESPer]

it's also important to properly fuel up both before and after the workout, but especially before. you half to have the sufficient energy storage needed to do high intensity shit, and to have energy left to do it again (this is why recovery is important too). have tons of carbs pre-w/o, and replenish with electrolytes and maybe some protein.
though this is from someone who's largely only focused on building muscle, idk how it works for someone losing weight.

For my first 3 years of weight lifting, i either had nothing to eat before I lifted or I had a high fat meal (like scrambled eggs)
Up until then I didn't really care about my cardio so I never tracked my heart rate but once i started tracking it, I noticed my BPM would be elevated for a while after my session, and It would remain elevated for several hours. One time i had maybe 40g of carbs as pre workout and this effect just didn't happen. sure it was elevated but It peaked almost 15bpm lower than previously.
Now days I have oatmeal, every single day for pre workout. Not only do the extra cabs help with performance, but I feel as though it's just as important for recovery

 

[Swine Schwein]

is this because i'm weak or is it because i only really started lifting in the last 2 years

I also agree with the "try a bit heavier" sentiment. Especially if you feel you're not progressing the way you should. Maybe trade some of that volume for intensity. Push yourself and make your first working set a hard one instead of thinking you have to do the same set 4 more times and (perhaps unconsciously) leaving a lot of good, tough grindy reps in reserve.

Of course if you absolutely want to do 5x10 per exercise then of course go ahead, we all train the way we want. At least you have some work capacity, whereas I can be pretty wasted after 2-3 hard sets.

You're not too old or too weak, forget about that retarded defeatist nonsense. Way, way older people make good progress, just gotta work for it, the gains are absolutely there for the taking. Also, slow progress is still progress.

 

[Easy-Off Bam]

it's both because you are "new" to this, may have bad technique, and you are old. Not reasons to give up tho, keep it up
I recommend you going to failure a couple times, know how that feels like, and then start lifting for sets of 1 or 2 reps in reserve

Do you have joint pain if you go heavier or something? It's not supposed to hurt but it's not supposed to be comfortable either. If you finish an exercise and did 5 sets of 10 reps at a certain weight then do 5 pounds heavier the next time.

i dont really have joint pain, more i just get exhausted lol, 5x10 can be a struggle during the 5th set, but i can power through it
ive only just started doing the 18kg, up from 16 like a month ago (still 5x10, its just what i got into the routine of doing)

Discomfort is what creates change; you gain strength and size based by always pushing yourself just a little bit.

When you say you can 'comfortably' lift 18kg, I must remind you that exercise is not meant to be comfortable in the slightest. In-fact, it is the discomfort itself that should signal to your brain that change and adaptation is required. On the cellular level and a psychological level; discomfort signals to your brain / body that it needs to adapt to something. If you never step out of your comfort zone, and never even approach that last 5%, you will never improve beyond this point.

i definitely feel like im pushing myself to that last 5%, i just feel like im making progress slowly, but rome wasnt built in a day etc etc

Beyond that, you of course have to hit a protein goal every day. If you're not getting 0.8g - 1g of protein per pound of body weight then you're leaving alot of gains on the table.

it's also important to properly fuel up both before and after the workout, but especially before. you half to have the sufficient energy storage needed to do high intensity shit, and to have energy left to do it again (this is why recovery is important too). have tons of carbs pre-w/o, and replenish with electrolytes and maybe some protein.
though this is from someone who's largely only focused on building muscle, idk how it works for someone losing weight.

For my first 3 years of weight lifting, i either had nothing to eat before I lifted or I had a high fat meal (like scrambled eggs)
Up until then I didn't really care about my cardio so I never tracked my heart rate but once i started tracking it, I noticed my BPM would be elevated for a while after my session, and It would remain elevated for several hours. One time i had maybe 40g of carbs as pre workout and this effect just didn't happen. sure it was elevated but It peaked almost 15bpm lower than previously.
Now days I have oatmeal, every single day for pre workout. Not only do the extra cabs help with performance, but I feel as though it's just as important for recovery

protein every day? i only have more protein (via shakes/water/bars etc) on days i workout, and it'll be about 60-70g (not including food), im just over 110kg (more fat than muscle), am i not having enough protein on workout days?

im trying lose weight and build muscle at the same time, i'll usually have pre workout before, then recovery drink/hydration afterwards, doing my best to watch what i eat, not doing counting macros or cals, just doing my best to eat

so the impasse of carbs bad for weight loss, but good for muscle building? i read that protein is what your body burns for muscle growth, should i just not care what i eat (within reason) and work it out/off?

I also agree with the "try a bit heavier" sentiment. Especially if you feel you're not progressing the way you should. Maybe trade some of that volume for intensity. Push yourself and make your first working set a hard one instead of thinking you have to do the same set 4 more times and (perhaps unconsciously) leaving a lot of good, tough grindy reps in reserve.

Of course if you absolutely want to do 5x10 per exercise then of course go ahead, we all train the way we want. At least you have some work capacity, whereas I can be pretty wasted after 2-3 hard sets.

You're not too old or too weak, forget about that retarded defeatist nonsense. Way, way older people make good progress, just gotta work for it, the gains are absolutely there for the taking. Also, slow progress is still progress.

i dont think im progressing too slowly, i know only working out for like, 3h a week (plus walking) will mean slow gains and not "i can lift a fucking car with my arm" levels of strong in a month, its more seeing people easily bench like, 120kg+ to me is impressive as fuck, but not "an end goal" for me, i just want to be less fat, and slightly more toned

instead of targeting 4/5 different muscle groups in one session, should i focus on one set the entire session?

my usual workout is: based on this this was the first was the first routine i found that worked and i stuck too
mon:
Dumbbell Bench Press
Dumbbell Incline Bench Press
Dumbbell Shoulder Press
Superset: Tricep Extensions & Lateral Raises

thurs:
Two-arm Dumbbell Rows
Tricep Overhead Extension
Reverse Grip Dumbbell Rows
Curls
Hammer Curls

sat:
Chest
Shoulder
Bicep

(usually Dumbbell Presses and Tricep Overhead Extension until i failure)

 

[ESPer]

im just over 110kg (more fat than muscle), am i not having enough protein on workout days?

Double your protein intake and watch your progress ramp up immediately.
Exercise is 20% of the lifestyle, recovery is the other 80%. Good sleep and hitting your macro goals daily is how you progress.
Since you're 110kg you should be aiming for around 200g of protein per day
You're not even hitting half of that!

I know it might be a little difficult at first but it's not that hard adding just a bit more protein to your meals.
For example, 100g of oats, 300ml of whole milk + a scoop of protein powder is 40g of protein, 40-50g of carbs and ~15-20g of fat and thats just breakfast. That's 1/5 of the way there and it's just a bowl of oats. It takes less than 3 minutes to make
there are alot of different methods to adding macros to your diet aswell. For example. I add 70-100g of cheese to my eggs before scrambled for extra protein + fat
Cheese is a GODLY cheat code for adding more protein easily
If adding another meal at first is difficult, then add a small something to your day, like the oatmeal, and then ramp it up from there

 

[ESPer]

im trying lose weight and build muscle at the same time

Cut the carbs, maintain a fat + protein floor
That's personally how I roll with adding / losing weight

If i wanna lose some weight I ditch some carbs from other meals, like bread or something
If i wanna gain weight i eat sugary shit

 

[Billy Bob Dick]

Double your protein intake and watch your progress ramp up immediately.
Exercise is 20% of the lifestyle, recovery is the other 80%. Good sleep and hitting your macro goals daily is how you progress.
Since you're 110kg you should be aiming for around 200g of protein per day
You're not even hitting half of that!

I know it might be a little difficult at first but it's not that hard adding just a bit more protein to your meals.
For example, 100g of oats, 300ml of whole milk + a scoop of protein powder is 40g of protein, 40-50g of carbs and ~15-20g of fat and thats just breakfast. That's 1/5 of the way there and it's just a bowl of oats. It takes less than 3 minutes to make
there are alot of different methods to adding macros to your diet aswell. For example. I add 70-100g of cheese to my eggs before scrambled for extra protein + fat
Cheese is a GODLY cheat code for adding more protein easily
If adding another meal at first is difficult, then add a small something to your day, like the oatmeal, and then ramp it up from there

I discovered ultrafiltered skim milk about 18 months ago and it was a total game changer. Fairlife skim milk is 80kcal, < 1g fat & 13g protein a cup. It's expensive, but worth it.

 

[ESPer]

I discovered ultrafiltered skim milk about 18 months ago and it was a total game changer. Fairlife skim milk is 80kcal, < 1g fat & 13g protein a cup. It's expensive, but worth it.

SOUNDS like a game changer. I wonder if I can get my hoov- I mean hands on anything similar

 

[ESPer]

my usual workout is: based on this this was the first was the first routine i found that worked and i stuck too
mon:
Dumbbell Bench Press
Dumbbell Incline Bench Press
Dumbbell Shoulder Press
Superset: Tricep Extensions & Lateral Raises

thurs:
Two-arm Dumbbell Rows
Tricep Overhead Extension
Reverse Grip Dumbbell Rows
Curls
Hammer Curls

sat:
Chest
Shoulder
Bicep

(usually Dumbbell Presses and Tricep Overhead Extension until i failure)

You don't train legs bro?
Do you at least do a little cardio? I know you said you hit 10k steps per day but it has been proven that 1 minute of rigorous exercise equates to 100minutes of light exercise in terms of cardio vascular gains
just 20 minutes at 150bpm BTFO's 20 days of walking for an 1.5hours

 

[The Stranger]

i dont really have joint pain, more i just get exhausted lol, 5x10 can be a struggle during the 5th set, but i can power through it

Are all 5 of those sets working sets or are the first couple warm ups? 5x10 is a lot if they're all working sets. Unless you specifically want to train endurance instead of hypertrophy or strength then I'd recommend only doing 3 working sets at higher weight.

protein every day? i only have more protein (via shakes/water/bars etc) on days i workout, and it'll be about 60-70g (not including food), im just over 110kg (more fat than muscle), am i not having enough protein on workout days?

You should be aiming for at least 150g of protein per day. It's easier than it sounds. Get about 30-40g per meal then have a snack here and there like greek yogurt or apples with peanut butter etc.

so the impasse of carbs bad for weight loss, but good for muscle building? i read that protein is what your body burns for muscle growth, should i just not care what i eat (within reason) and work it out/off?

No macro is worse than any other for weight loss, it all comes down to whether or not you're in a caloric deficit. Sugar is "bad" because there's a shitload of it in snacks and soda, etc, so it's easy to eat a caloric surplus as well as increase insulin resistance and give you diabeetus. Limit fats because they're more energy dense than both carbs and protein which again makes it easy to eat too much. You should at least count calories for a week just to see where your normal diet is sitting so you can make adjustments.

should i just not care what i eat (within reason) and work it out/off?

No, you'll never out-work a bad diet. An entire hour of cardio will only burn the calories in a single slice of cake. If you want to lose weight you have to eat fewer calories. You don't even need to necessarily eat less food it just has to be better food. Look up the Mediterranean diet.

my usual workout is: based on this this was the first was the first routine i found that worked and i stuck too
mon:
Dumbbell Bench Press
Dumbbell Incline Bench Press
Dumbbell Shoulder Press
Superset: Tricep Extensions & Lateral Raises

thurs:
Two-arm Dumbbell Rows
Tricep Overhead Extension
Reverse Grip Dumbbell Rows
Curls
Hammer Curls

sat:
Chest
Shoulder
Bicep

I would replace the tricep overhead extensions on Thursday with bent-over lateral raises. Reason is the anterior delts have way more work than the posterior which can fuck up your posture over time. The bent-over lateral raises works them directly to help even it out. Also I'm not sure why the triceps are being hit again on a pull day when they have plenty of work on the push day.
Next I'd make Saturday a leg day. With dumbbells you can do Bulgarian split squats and one-legged Romanian deadlifts and calf raises. Maybe even warm up with farmer carries.

 

[Swine Schwein]

instead of targeting 4/5 different muscle groups in one session, should i focus on one set the entire session?

You just have to get a bit more knowledge (yes, it's an infowar jungle full of bullshit, marketing and competing ideas and we tend to insert our own biases into it as well). But there's a reason why someone sticks to bro splits, why someone else does full body 2x per week, why one goes for push/pull/legs etc. Then there's the whole volume thing, not to mention exercise selection.

In the beginning there might be a lot of trying out new stuff, but in the end it's just about

A) what your goals (and preferences) are, and
B) what is sustainable for you so that you don't just quit after a while.

Try out new shit and see what happens. With enough personal experience and involvement you'll actually have an idea about why you're doing X and not Y.

I might be wrong about most things but I know why I choose to train 5 days a week now, low volume, at least 2 muscle groups per session, trying to hit a muscle group every 4 days or so, rather than just once per week.

For example, this is what my "chest day" ( chest being the main thing with some isolations after it) for today might look like:

2-3x incline dumbbell press (slight incline)
2x ring dips
2-3x bicep curls, not sure about variation yet
2x hammer curls

That's it. Chest is getting hit in 4-5 days again. And I'm already debating if I should switch the dips to a non-pushing variant of another chest exercise, because the dumbbell press will already tire me out a bit, thus potentially not allowing me to get the most out of dips, another heavy pushing exercise. I don't know what I would call my system. I guess it's a rotation of chest/back/legs, with aforementioned muscle groups getting the main stage with compound lifts, and spamming some arms/shoulders isolations after them with a somewhat slower rotation on their part.

Just to make a point: You were talking about doing overhead press after 8-10 sets of chest press. I absolutely would not train my front delts today even after just 4-5 sets of bench&dips, because they're already getting hit from all the chest work and I'm not a push/pull/legs guy anyway. But someone with another plan, more work capacity and bigger balls might just do something like that and make it work.

Whether I choose to go for high or low reps, I'm pushing really hard every set with every intention to improve, which allows me to keep the volume low, which in turn helps me to keep training even on shitty days because I know it's not going to be a long workout. And when I keep training and pushing, no matter how retarded or wrong I might be, I will keep getting progress and getting more experience about the whole thing. I can make changes eventually if I want to, I don't have to be married to it, but at least there is intention to the whole thing and right now it's sustainable.

"Is this program good or not" is rarely the right question to ask and even harder to answer. I'm not saying "do what I do", or that my approach is even that good (there's a lot to be critizised), I just wanted to show an example of...something.

 

[CharlesBarkley]

You don't train legs bro?

Me benching 380 but getting winded walking to the bathroom.

 

[Troon Petty and the 41ers]

Been neglecting farmers walks and their variants like overhead carries. To my detriment.

 

[ESPer]

Been neglecting farmers walks and their variants like overhead carries. To my detriment.

Are these important if you're always carrying plates to and from machines/bars?

 

[Troon Petty and the 41ers]

Are these important if you're always carrying plates to and from machines/bars?

That entirely depends on what sports you do and what your goals are.

I want to improve my upper body strength and waiter walks (carry a kettlebell or dumbbell overhead) get some extra time under tension. My grip strength and forearms are lagging too IMO, so giving them focused attention is a good thing.

 

[ESPer]

That entirely depends on what sports you do and what your goals are.

I want to improve my upper body strength and waiter walks (carry a kettlebell or dumbbell overhead) get some extra time under tension. My grip strength and forearms are lagging too IMO, so giving them focused attention is a good thing.

i remember feeling iffy about my grip strength since I couldn't hold my body weight with one hand while hanging from a bar, so I started spamming wrist curls and my grip strength increased so fast
I can hang from a bar with one hand comfortably now to stretch myself out

 

[DumbDude43]

has anyone found that creatine is actually helpful?

yes.
of all the dietary supplements that exist, creatine is the one and only that is proven beyond any doubt to work as advertised.
it's also dirt cheap.

 

[ESPer]

has anyone found that creatine is actually helpful?

Godly supplement. I take 6g daily and will forever and ever