Debate @MaryKullis on why video games are a waste of time - Why don't you GAMERS read a BOOK instead of playing into the Jews' escapism!

[the rat]

"Don't you know that books are more philosophically engaging than those goyslop video games?"

 

[Skitarii]

Are some forms of 'entertainment' better or worse than others, or are they all the same?

Ent*rtainment is for fags

 

[Drip Torch]

Ent*rtainment is for fags

But what if you get entertainment out of work?

 

[God of Nothing]

i don't enjoy self-indulgent sexual fantasies about getting raped and bred by werewolf billionaires though

 

[Skitarii]

But what if you get entertainment out of work?

Then stop working and be a nigger

 

[Got Milk!]

What if I prefer light reading? Is that acceptable?:

 

[souschef]

Thanks for all the serious feedback. I will check out this Deus Ex game and try process the serious responses and respond ASAP.

Why yes of course. I'm glad and i hope you digest this particular piece of digital entertainment my good sir. I bid thee farewell!

 

[Hypercop]

I mostly agree.

Humans are naturally destined to shit away large chunks of their time. Leisure exists to put us in a pseudo-rest state that mimics sleep, by activating the parasympathetic nervous system to restore our energy levels and allow us to work again. Probably for this reason, what we know as "hobbies" are traditionally very calming things like fishing, reading, woodworking, and gardening. The point has never been what is accomplished through the hobby, but only the state of rest it provides. Recently though this dynamic has inverted: Rather than gaining energy from their hobbies, people are spending massive amounts of energy on their hobbies. This is at its worst with video games.

Ironically, the two genres that gamers shit on the most (Visual novels and JRPGs) are the most respectable from a traditionalist standpoint, because they don't steal away energy you could use on more productive things. Fittingly these genres are the most popular in East Asia, which has a strong culture of hard work. If you want to be a traditionalist chud, you should ditch the argument in the OP and adopt this one, because in actual successful societies they operate on my reasoning. They consider what you do in your leisure time totally meaningless, all that matters is that you rest up and it's not drugs/self-destructive/whatever. This idea that your hobbies matter except you gotta consume good art is some kind of neo-trad meme. Real trads know that your work is your life.

 

[The Last Stand]

Thanks for all the serious feedback. I will check out this Deus Ex game and try process the serious responses and respond ASAP.

I was going to suggest Detroit: Beyond Human as it has dialogue options and branching storylines.

 

[Peeing In The Shower]

I want to understand the true nature of society, self, god, existence. Anyone got any good video game recommendations that will help get me there?

You ever try Pong?

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

I want to understand the true nature of society, self, god, existence. Anyone got any good video game recommendations that will help get me there?

Shower With Your Dad Simulator

 

[Brap God]

I want to understand the true nature of society, self, god, existence.

0:03

 

[TheVoodooThatJewDo]

As long as whatever you're doing isn't actively detrimental or harmful to you, then it's extremely hard to say one is inherently better than the other.

Harm can be so subtle. Why can't it be bad for passively harming you? And its not just about harming yourself - its also about society.

Generally videogames use the interactivity as a way to express themes when they want to do things in an 'artsy' way. The goto example being the skills system in Disco Elysium, how putting points into different voices makes them cut into your dialogue. This is meant to potray the shattered state of the protagonist's mind.

Shattered mind is what we will all have if we don't break away from the screens that do all of our thinking/imagining for us, especially now with AI.

That's the big strength when it comes to interactive media, you don't *need* to have a dedicated pause moment or a processing time. Because the media has the option to immerse you in the ideas it's trying to present.

"You don't need an attention span or critical thinking, because the screen force feeds you easy-to-consume slop"

The moment to moment gameplay is about making split-second decisions that can cost you an entire mission, or if you're doing ironman, hours of work. It's meant to show the player the actual *work* involved in police work, to establish a rapport of understanding. Yes, cop jobs are difficult. This is what they do. But the system that these people work for is flawed.

That's an interesting case for video games possibly being better than other options, but I think before that cops basically did the same thing with real people. There are probably a lot of advantages to training with real people instead of a screen...

"Oh but I learn so much more from--" then it isn't pure leisure, you're doing something else, like studying or self-improvement. Everyone can always be doing something "better" with their time than leisure, like hitting the gym or renovating your house or learning a new language. But then that's not leisure.

Why do we need pure leisure (see: hedonism)? Are you going through pure hell in your daily life? That's the only thing I can think of that would explain the need for pure leisure, where you have no concern if what you are doing is the best you can do. What do you think 'pure leisure' was 100 years ago? Probably hanging out with your family, joking around - shit that is vital to our survival, and all but gone now as we are largely replacing each other with consumer goods (big mac/video game/beer doesn't challenge or betray you the way that asshole friend did.)

I've learned more about economics from certain video games than I did from any textbook

Can you explain this a little for me? What game? Textbooks are boring and mostly made to be memorized, tested on, and forgotten, so that's not too surprising - unless you are an economist for a living.

I personally hate passive consumption. Movies and TV shows aren't just passive, they are extremely long and inefficient ways to get ideas across. The stories they tell tend to be compacted for time (movies), or extended beyond reason, like they're filler to hit a minimum (TV). Reading is somewhat active, because the way text works in a forward-backward scannable format makes your brain do active work establishing links and imagining scenes. But it lacks the visual component; a picture literally is worth a thousand words.

I agree that movies/tv are far from ideal...the nicest thing I can say about them really is that they aren't as bad as video games IMO, because the level of addictiveness, the level of artistry (imo) and the ability to really speak to the human experience with a cohesive story that is not interrupted by "where do I find the magic potion". I just can't see a video game comparing to a great movie in terms of storytelling, but maybe I'm just an out of touch boomer.

this is what came up when I searched Deus Ex. Holy cow is this cringe. Whatever you want to say about pretentious book nerds...pretentious game nerds are way worse. What an autistic faggot. The few minutes I could stand to watch of this video made me feel more right about my positions than anything I actually said. Does anyone have something better for me to watch or read that will help me understand the brilliance of this game, which was the most popular recommendation.

Some other points I want to mention:

The idea that 'leisure time' should be pure hedonism is dangerous and prevalent. Perhaps due to the extremely stressful nature of modern life/work, many people seem to feel a need for hedonism/nihilism (rejecting the real world in order to get dopamine hits from flashes of light and sound, not far removed from the granny at the slot machine thinking she's doing something with her 'controller'.)

I like the Thoreau quote that you can't waste time without injuring eternity. We should try to make the most of our life, and maybe some people are so beaten down that playing video games is the best they can do after a long hard day...but I think that is a problem. I think its just the easiest option for a lot of people, but with a little effort they could maybe be enjoying something a little more real and healthy.
To me this is like saying to a heroin addict, I think you can just smoke weed if you try. Why not go for the less unhealthy option? Largely because people don't see/think they have better options (which is increasingly understandable in this voluntary-lockdown world where most people stay inside 90% of the time.) And many will just convince themselves that heroin is good because having to question if they are doing the right thing is just another stressor and that's what they are trying to escape.

I am trying to boil down my feelings down to their core and I think it is this: if there are say two things we can do that are both entertaining to us, but one requires a bit more effort to be enjoyable, should we just settle for the easy entertainment option? If with some effort, a person who enjoys playing video games 2 hours per day, could instead learn to enjoy reading/discussing non-fiction or good fiction (with interesting metaphors to conceal unspeakable/illegal truths), walking around the block and talking with neighbors, playing a simple physical game that is good for your body and doesn't require to enter a hypnotic state of suspended disbelief, dancing, joking around with real-life friends who can be there for you in a much more real way than your gamer community, etc.

If there are soooo many things that are possible for people to enjoy just as much as video games (remember when we even enjoyed each other's company?), and which are Clearly more socially/personally beneficial than video games, is it not wrong to choose the video games over enjoying your garden that gives you food, connection with the earth, a way to meet neighbors and build community (giving out extra food) etc. Isn't saying "video games are just my preference" not that much different than saying "bugchasing is just my sexual preference." Its a sick, hedonistic attitude that presumes that you can't better yourself and you were "born this way" to play video games. And of course the bugchasers could probably write a book about all the benefits of this clearly disgusting, antisocial activity.

That's not quite enough though...because this is really about the Nature of books (and other healthier forms of 'entertainment', but for now I will just focus on books) vs the Nature of video games and how they differ. Yes a book can encourage people to kill billions and a video game can perhaps be overall educational. I saw some talk of "neutral mediums", but there are notable differences like:

Anyone can write a book. There is no barrier to entry except being literate and having a pen and paper, which nearly everyone is/has.
One is image based (not talking about coloring books, pedantic fags), and one is text-based (see: Amusing Ourselves to Death.)
One requires electricity and relatively high tech devices.
Video games simulate reality, making players feel as if they are really Doing Something as they 'interact' with the technology. Tech will continue to improve this to a degree that bookfags like me might find disturbing.
Books simulate nothing but the spoken word, with which we use to convey truth.
(that's all i can think of for now, but I feel like I"m leaving off a lot.)

No one can seem to make the argument that video games are the best form of entertainment and we should all aspire to enjoy them, so it seems the move is instead to say that we shouldn't care about what people do for fun and its all the same...

Books: basically contain all human knowledge, but also lots of slop. Provokes your imagination/creativity, teaches you things if you read one of the many good ones. Non-addictive to nearly everyone. Doesn't require sophisticated technology, thereby not limiting production of popular books to wealthy groups.

Video games: some games have philosophical undertones, but probably almost entirely slop in comparison to books, and the games that do have philosophical aspects are still mostly about living in a fantasy world and doing little missions, when you could be gamifying your life and enjoying personal growth instead.
Possible pros include: gives total degen druggies a cheaper drug to do. Could help seniors maintain brain activity, since they decided to play video games instead of have kids/grandkids that would keep them mentally engaged.

Its interesting to me that it is so hard for people to say that some forms of entertainment are better/worse than others, when I'm sure many of you are brutally attacking people for their hobbies/interests every day. Lets not forget all the sick shit that people get 'entertainment' from in their 'leisure time', just so that we can pretend that its all the same.

Will respond to other posts later.

 

[dick brain]

Consuming media is not a hobby no matter what form it comes in.

(I did not read this thread and I'm not going to.)

 

[Starefag]

"You don't need an attention span or critical thinking, because the screen force feeds you easy-to-consume slop"

Wow what a retarded way to analyze that statement. My point wasn't that you don't need to think about it. My point was that there's very little time needed to process as the player is placed within the situation to understand the ideas the game presents to them near instantly. Rainworld is about the Cyclical nature of karma. The Game's mechanics reinforce this by introducing to you very quickly you're going to die a lot, and it's important for you to prepare for this. Wow! Almost like reincarnation is a central theme

Video games simulate reality

No. Most videogames do not attempt to do this. DOOM is not an accurate simulation of reality. And even in the most high fidelity games there's a layer of unreality through mechanics and setting that inherently disconnect you from reality.
But, they try to maintain suspension of disbelief, like books. And movies. Which is different from reality. It's why even though Return Of The King takes place in a fantasy universe and isn't real, my immersion would by broken if you put a 2012 Nissan sedan in the middle of Mordor

Its interesting to me that it is so hard for people to say that some forms of entertainment are better/worse than others,

Books, movies, music, and videogames do different shit. I cannot passively enjoy a videogame like I can with music. I cannot play videogames out in the wilderness like I can with a book

No one can seem to make the argument that video games are the best form of entertainment and we should all aspire to enjoy them, so it seems the move is instead to say that we shouldn't care about what people do for fun and its all the same...

Y-
Did--
You know you can enjoy multiple things at once, right?

 

[Kankichi Ryotsu]

OP is right, every waking moment should be dedicated to work so that your boss buys another yacht.

 

[The End!]

I'm dying to see an argument against video games that takes into account traditional games like tic-tac-toe and chess, that takes into account the entirety of gaming itself besides a mere handful of popular titles and genres alone. Those two games in particular not only played a part in the history of video games, but have themselves been adapted into video games, and there are arguably video games that are as complex as them, or more so, especially in the case of the latter. Of course, not all video games are as cerebral as chess, but this similarly applies to movies, TV shows, books or any other form of entertainment. I mean, OP claims that recreational drugs are more worthwhile than video games. Tell me, how many drug-induced hallucinations are truly meaningful and insightful, and not just mimicry at best, or colorful nonsense at worst? Is a photo album full of pictures of rocks truly more meaningful than any game that has ever been made?

 

[TheArtilleryman]

Crusader Kings 2 and 3 taught me way more history than I ever absorbed in school. I later started modding it to go even further back in to the times of the fall of the Western Roman Empire, The Bronze age and even mythological ancient Ireland, all the while looking up the different civilisations and leaders presented, what they did and their lasting impact on the world. I even occasionally read books because the game inspired me to. I've got a couple on the Crusades and the fall of Constantinople now.

I also learned quite a lot about urban design philosophy playing Cities: Skyline, namely how roads should ideally be laid out and what are the viable ways to disperse residence, commerce, industry and public service over a given area. That game quickly makes you realise what a bad city looks like and how much failure it can lead to. Then you start learning about IRL concepts behind laying out a city, you find the actual engineers on youtube who also make gameplays and get in to the real nitty gritty of said ideas. You can learn a lot from videogames if you're inclined to and you pick the right ones.

I generally prefer my games to be difficult skill challenges or strategy games. That's just how I like to pass my time, playing those games. Maybe I could learn more and be a different kind of person if I always read books or watched movies instead, but I don't want to. Personally I think TV and movies even worse than games, especially since 2014, because they are most often just an attempt to program you with an idea as you sit their passively absorbing it. You're not really engaged whilst watching a screen, are you? It's the least engaging form of entertainment, even music will instinctively cause you start moving with it.

Books to me are for when I want to educate myself, not pass the time. I cant stand people who get snobby about the fact they pass the time by reading. Stfu dork. I oughta give you a swirly.

 

[Hypercop]

I'm dying to see an argument against video games that takes into account traditional games like tic-tac-toe and chess, that takes into account the entirety of gaming itself besides a mere handful of popular titles and genres alone. Those two games in particular not only played a part in the history of video games, but have themselves been adapted into video games, and there are arguably video games that are as complex as them, or more so, especially in the case of the latter.

(Probably) one of the best chess players of all time retired young because he thought it was a childish waste of time.

 

[The End!]

Ver archivo adjunto 8774410
(Probably) one of the best chess players of all time retired young because he thought it was a childish waste of time.

I don't know, I think that's a pretty harsh reading of the quote, unless the first sentence was meant to be sarcastic.