The Comics and Manga Griefing thread - Comic and Manga really can suck.

[BubbaRobot887]

Tom King's Batman wedding.

I forgot about that one, my local comic shop was having a midnight party and everything and then King lost his nerve and screwed them over with the last page of the comic.

I remember this was also around the time Bendis aged up Jon Kent and turned him gay and Warner Brothers had to step in and stop him from breaking up Clark and Lois.

Not a goid time to be a DC fan.

 

[Incecticyder]

I forgot about that one, my local comic shop was having a midnight party and everything and then King lost his nerve and screwed them over with the last page of the comic.

I remember this was also around the time Bendis aged up Jon Kent and turned him gay and Warner Brothers had to step in and stop him from breaking up Clark and Lois.

Not a goid time to be a DC fan.

Yeah, I figured that if there was one event that could match it, it would be that.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

I forgot about that one, my local comic shop was having a midnight party and everything and then King lost his nerve and screwed them over with the last page of the comic.

What's the story behind this comic, exactly?

 

[BubbaRobot887]

What's the story behind this comic, exactly?

DC announced that Batman and Catwoman were getting married for real, they built up to it over about a year, they told comic shop to have mid night launch parties with costumes and everything, then Tom King decided Batman needed to be kicked in the nuts again and had the last page(where art of the wedding had already been drawn) replaced with Catwoman running out and leaving behind a note saying that it was for the good of Gotham that Batman stay depressed and that she needed to find herself.

Some comic shops had invested hundreds if not thousands of dollars in these midnight launch parties(a very rare thing for comics)that now no one showed up to, they had preordered huge numbers of these books expecting it to be one best sellers of all time. Readers canceled their preorders when the change leaked a couple of days before the book went on sale.

It was a disaster for comic shops and sales of Batman comic took a hit.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

they told comic shop to have mid night launch parties with costumes and everything,

Holy fucking shit, how did DC not get sued for damages over this?

 

[BubbaRobot887]

Holy fucking shit, how did DC not get sued for damages over this?

There was a class action suit put together but DC offered to buy back the unsold books(Something comic companies never do)and offered each store some money in exchange for not suing. Still the stores were out of money for about a year that it took the money to get back to them and that wasn't good for stores that were hurting at the time.

 

[Incecticyder]

Holy fucking shit, how did DC not get sued for damages over this?

Trust me, it was worse than you can imagine.

Still the stores were out of money for about a year that it took the money to get back to them and that wasn't good for stores that were hurting at the time.

Exactly. The stores that were hurting closed, the shops that were doing well started hurting and close a while after (or switched to old issues and manga) and the really big stores that could tank the hit switched more to manga/accessories/collectables with comics having a lesser presence. Then Diamond made the mess that transcended all messes by closing shop for COVID. That kickstarted a domino of publishers leaving them, hurt the shops more because their orders weren't coming as expected and everything went bananas.

After that, DC decided to have its diversity push go into nuclear and announced that they were killing off their flagship characters and replacing them with untested diversity hires. Superman was to be replaced with gay, obnoxious Superman. Batman with Black Batman. WW with Latina WW. Green Lantern with Green Lesbian. That was, for many, the final straw. The end. The fans had enough but the stores more so. There was a bloodbath. But, and you are going to love this, it didn't happen! The writers revolted, the fans revolted and so did the shops! DiDio was fired (after, I assume, placing an ultimatum) and it was clear to everyone that the gamble would not pay. I am willing to bet that they saw the writing on the wall and it was saying "this will make the Batman fiasco look like a minor annoyance". So they caved.

Overall, the Batman Wedding was a canon event for comics. A core memory. No one in this sphere was unaffected. Fans learned that the joke was on them. Shops learned that they will be thrown under the bus if the companies want to virtue signal. And the writers learned that unemployment is a serious possibility. Everyone attacked the next time it looked like DC was going the clearly stupid route. Nothing was ever the same.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

Jesus Christ, that might be why it is the Atomic Comics closest to the house disappeared when it did. Covid killed a lot of comic stores off, but I remember so many places closing prior that Dad was frustrated about. I had no idea it was due to DC's shitty PR scam.

They fired King for it, right? R-Right?

 

[BubbaRobot887]

Jesus Christ, that might be why it is the Atomic Comics closest to the house disappeared when it did. Covid killed a lot of comic stores off, but I remember so many places closing prior that Dad was frustrated about. I had no idea it was due to DC's shitty PR scam.

They fired King for it, right? R-Right?

Nope, King and Bendis pretty much control the creative direction of the company to this day and are looked at as the big names and keep writing their depressing theorpy sessions. I haven't read a DC comic since they pulled the stunt and my local shop was one of the ones that couldn't take the hit.

Tom King is a hack and Batman never recovered from him.

They launched the absolute line just so there would be a Batman completely disconnected from this garbage.

It's sad too, because if DC had just fired King and gone through with the wedding that was his idea in the first place it could have been a huge event that boasted sales of all DC books going forward.

Oh and the writer and artist for the new Catwoman book were screwed over. Their book was supposed to launch a few weeks after the wedding issue and focus on Catwoman adjusting to married life and fighting crime with her new husband, they had to work around the clock to rewrite and redraw the first three issues to now focus on Catwoman living on her own, stealing stuff again, and finding herself. They had to turn those books around in record time all because the Didio wouldn't do his job and order King to write the book he had been hired to write. It was a disaster and the new book and its creative team paid the price for King's ego trip.

 

[Incecticyder]

Jesus Christ, that might be why it is the Atomic Comics closest to the house disappeared when it did. Covid killed a lot of comic stores off, but I remember so many places closing prior that Dad was frustrated about. I had no idea it was due to DC's shitty PR scam.

Many shops were already on the razor's edge. The woke products had already chased away many customers. The MCU failed to get new ones due to replacing THEIR famous heroes with woke successors and this event being successful was make or break for many struggling stores.

They fired King for it, right? R-Right?

They had him write WW afterwards.

Nope, King and Bendis pretty much control the creative direction of the company to this day and are looked at as the big names and keep writing their depressing theorpy sessions. I haven't read a DC comic since they pulled the stunt and my local shop was one of the ones that couldn't take the hit.

Bendis also wrote his daughter into the comic as a Superman rip-off.

Tom King is a hack and Batman never recovered from him.

Sad thing is that he never faced any consequences.

They launched the absolute line just so there would be a Batman completely disconnected from this garbage.

Don't forget Batman getting cucked by his own father.

It's sad too, because if DC had just fired King and gone through with the wedding that was his idea in the first place it could have been a huge event that boasted sales of all DC books going forward.

It would but DiDio is from the same ilk of cucks that cannot imagine people liking superheroes being married. Him and Joe are fine bed fellows.

 

[BubbaRobot887]

What gets me is for all DC's talk about how they empower women they let King completely screw over the female write of the Catwoman book, and made her work insane hours just to bring her book in line with his last minute change that mess with every DC title going forward.

Didio and Joe have no business anywhere near comics, let alone running companies.

 

[Nick Obre]

Jesus Christ, that might be why it is the Atomic Comics closest to the house disappeared when it did. Covid killed a lot of comic stores off, but I remember so many places closing prior that Dad was frustrated about. I had no idea it was due to DC's shitty PR scam.

They fired King for it, right? R-Right?

They can't fire King, he's a planted CIA asset

 

[BiggestKai]

I know I'm not breaking new ground but my problem with western comics will forever remain that if hypothetically I read a comic about some character, and I liked either the writing or the art or plotline or just the general style of the comic, and I spend some time tracking down what the original/debut comic of that character or story the reading order almost always ends up in the format of

• Dickbutt(1987)
• After Dickbutt(1989 - sequel comic line that somehow runs in parallel to the above comic)
• Princess Power Rose #67-169 (1995 - crossover arc)
• Dickbutt Origins(2005 - failed reboot)
• Penisass(2010 - failed edgy reboot)
• Dickbutt(2013 - reboot)
• Dickbutt's Conquest(2015 - sequel comic to the original 1987)
• Beyond Dickbutt(2016 - sequel comic to the 2013 rebutt)
• Dickbutt(2017 - prequel comic to the 2013 reboot)
• Dickbutt(2023 - not a reboot just a continuation to the 2013 comic that takes place before Beyond Dickbutt)
• Dickbutt(2024 - reboot)

And the tone, artists, writers, characters, status quo, plotlines and stories all wildly change and are 95% of the time nothing like the thing that originally drew you to the comic you read in the first place

 

[Mystery Spy]

I think most of DC and Marvel comics' problems can be summed up by people’s inability to just let go and accept that stories have endings.

You can’t have your cake and eat it, too. You either have a universe where nothing changes and you can randomly pick up any issue, like an Archie Comic, or you can have a universe where things can change and, therefore, end forever.

Spider-Man getting married means letting go of his life as a bachelor and his place in love triangles.

One More Day didn’t just suck because it was badly written, or because it undid the marriage. It was also a harsh reminder that Marvel has no intention of letting anything end or change past the expiration date of a gimmick's novelty.

Change will only stick once people accept that some stories need to eventually end. It doesn’t mean you can’t start over eventually. There will always be a Peter Parker or a Batman. New versions will always exist.

As for the old ones? You either let them change and give them a proper ending one day, or you keep them frozen in time forever; therefore, any change will just be an illusion, superficial, or a temporal gimmick.

 

[Registration]

I think most of DC and Marvel comics' problems can be summed up by people’s inability to just let go and accept that stories have endings.

You can’t have your cake and eat it, too. You either have a universe where nothing changes and you can randomly pick up any issue, like an Archie Comic, or you can have a universe where things can change and, therefore, end forever.

Spider-Man getting married means letting go of his life as a bachelor and his place in love triangles.

One More Day didn’t just suck because it was badly written, or because it undid the marriage. It was also a harsh reminder that Marvel has no intention of letting anything end or change past the expiration date of a gimmick's novelty.

Change will only stick once people accept that some stories need to eventually end. It doesn’t mean you can’t start over eventually. There will always be a Peter Parker or a Batman. New versions will always exist.

As for the old ones? You either let them change and give them a proper ending one day, or you keep them frozen in time forever; therefore, any change will just be an illusion, superficial, or a temporal gimmick.

This would be fine if they decided that a loose continuity was the plan but they never do. They want a canon and set events but without doing the work to maintain and develop what was written before.

It is literally the worse of both worlds. It took me a DC reboot literally shitting on my mouth to realize that I was the fool to care about those stories because DC and the writers clearly didn't. Not only they fucked up my favorite Superman but also the previous Superman for a plot point that made zero sense.

Capeshit from Marvel and DC is comercial trash that isn't worth the work to create the paper it is printed.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

Spider-Man getting married means letting go of his life as a bachelor and his place in love triangles.

One More Day didn’t just suck because it was badly written, or because it undid the marriage. It was also a harsh reminder that Marvel has no intention of letting anything end or change past the expiration date of a gimmick's novelty.

The AU Spider-verses already existed prior to One More Day, right? Or they went with that to try to help cushion the blow and fans went along with it?

 

[Super Malario]

I forgot about that one, my local comic shop was having a midnight party and everything and then King lost his nerve and screwed them over with the last page of the comic.

I remember this was also around the time Bendis aged up Jon Kent and turned him gay and Warner Brothers had to step in and stop him from breaking up Clark and Lois.

Not a goid time to be a DC fan.

Bendis is a fucking hack and I can't wait for the cunt to drop dead

 

[Incecticyder]

I know I'm not breaking new ground but my problem with western comics will forever remain that if hypothetically I read a comic about some character, and I liked either the writing or the art or plotline or just the general style of the comic, and I spend some time tracking down what the original/debut comic of that character or story the reading order almost always ends up in the format of

• Dickbutt(1987)
• After Dickbutt(1989 - sequel comic line that somehow runs in parallel to the above comic)
• Princess Power Rose #67-169 (1995 - crossover arc)
• Dickbutt Origins(2005 - failed reboot)
• Penisass(2010 - failed edgy reboot)
• Dickbutt(2013 - reboot)
• Dickbutt's Conquest(2015 - sequel comic to the original 1987)
• Beyond Dickbutt(2016 - sequel comic to the 2013 rebutt)
• Dickbutt(2017 - prequel comic to the 2013 reboot)
• Dickbutt(2023 - not a reboot just a continuation to the 2013 comic that takes place before Beyond Dickbutt)
• Dickbutt(2024 - reboot)

And the tone, artists, writers, characters, status quo, plotlines and stories all wildly change and are 95% of the time nothing like the thing that originally drew you to the comic you read in the first place

They forget that if a story goes on long enough, it will eventually do something so shitty that it makes people bitter. OMD and the Batman Wedding are such examples but there are more. After the shitty event, nothing they do can earn the fans back. It is like setting fire to the Mona Lisa. It will never be the same.

Spider-Man getting married means letting go of his life as a bachelor and his place in love triangles.

The issue is that these guys are children and think everyone else is too. They though that fans believe that girls have cooties. The backlash was from fans of every age and it caught them off-guard. They thought that it would eventually go away but it never did.

As for the old ones? You either let them change and give them a proper ending one day,

Or you have stories with the family. I am sure you are familiar with at least one action story with a family setting that is very interesting.

or you keep them frozen in time forever; therefore, any change will just be an illusion, superficial, or a temporal gimmick.

Which gets boring after a while. Change is necessary for longevity.

This would be fine if they decided that a loose continuity was the plan but they never do. They want a canon and set events but without doing the work to maintain and develop what was written before.

It is literally the worse of both worlds. It took me a DC reboot literally shitting on my mouth to realize that I was the fool to care about those stories because DC and the writers clearly didn't. Not only they fucked up my favorite Superman but also the previous Superman for a plot point that made zero sense.

Capeshit from Marvel and DC is comercial trash that isn't worth the work to create the paper it is printed.

I hear you. I was a Wally West fan.

The AU Spider-verses already existed prior to One More Day, right? Or they went with that to try to help cushion the blow and fans went along with it?

There were AUs before, yes. Regardless, Marvel always talks about keeping its continuity and OMD happened in the main continuity. All the AUs in the world can't save them.

 

[BubbaRobot887]

Fun fact Sper-Man comic sales dropped to 40% of what they were preOMD in the monthes following the event and have never recovered.

They have twice done universes where the marriage wasn't undone and both times those books have been canceled just as their sales over took the 616 Spider-Man books.

So these bitter old hacks know what the fans want but they would rather burn the company to the ground than admit they screwed up and now Marvel artists are not getting paid for their work.

 

[Mystery Spy]

Or you have stories with the family. I am sure you are familiar with at least one action story with a family setting that is very interesting.

Yeah I am aware of the successful runs with Spider-Man married. He has had at least 2 Spider-girl daughters, in alternate universes and successful marriages, like in ultimate Spider-Man 2 most recently. People are starved for that.

But here's the thing:

"Ending" doesn't mean "no more new content ever". Ending things means accepting change.

If you give Spiderman a family, then his children will also one day grow up, Peter will get older. Peter one day will take care of a baby, then a child, then a teen, then an adult. Change things, or you get once again trapped in a loop.And you know what, change is not a bad thing.

Trouble is comic writers want Peter trapped in a perpetual state of childhood.

They want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to pretend there is an ongoing narrative, but in reality just like Archie comics, only deliver interchangeable stories were nothing really changes, and nothing ever progresses. And gimmicks ( for example killing Alfred) just exist to give the illusion of change.