Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

[Kitty Cat Man]

Considering Susie smashed the most important part of the prophecy, it probably had something to do with her sacrificing herself or needing to die. Something that must happen that she does not want, in either case.

>prophecy she smashed was something like "the quirk chungus sidekick fucking dies" so she started inserting herself as the protag
>susie's just learned advanced bullying now that the stakes are higher and fully intends to KEK and SACRIFICE Kris

but it really brings into question why Toby wanted to release Chapters 3-5 together and then 6 and 7

My theory on this is that the original plot of the game was very, very similar to Omori and Toby had to rewrite a lot of it. Like, the original twist was something like "Kris killed Dess and Asriel reluctantly chose to help him cover it up but she's really alive in the Dark World and now wants to pull an Eren Yeager because she learned some vague higher truth after dying" and now it's "There was some vague TRAGEDY and SOMETHING happened to Dess that involved a Dark World and everyone's fucked up over it and weird gaster shit's causing the world to end and maybe Dess and her family are helping and everything's a simulation foretold by NES games and Kris is just a poor dindu who's getting raped by prophecy and (You)" - and both end the same way with a Big Titan Fight and Sappy LoreDump.

And Toby couldn't just solo-dev that whole rewrite so he hired troons who are trying to troon Ralsei out and made the murderhobo Soul from undertale into a fucking niggertroon

 

[Bob Barbas]

Genuine schizophrenic Evil Susie theory

As much as I want to believe, this also seems a little deeper and more convoluted than what Toby normally writes. I have a disappointing feeling that Deltarune is going to end up another example of "Everything the fans came up with was better than what we got." Like Mass Effect 3 for example.

Replaying chapter 1, and you can tell toby was going down a much darker theme than what we have now.

I don't doubt that Toby's plans have changed over the almost decade he's supposedly been fostering this idea.
Either Toby's idea barely even resembles his original intention, or Toby fucking lied and he really is just making it up as he goes along. The latter seeming more and more likely.

 

[Stone Enjoyer]

Maybe it was said already, but it really can't be understated how little "role-playing" there is in Deltarune. I was going for "attack everyone" neutral route and almost all major bosses in chapter 5 are impossible to defeat without acting, since they get constant max heals

It's especially annoying in last boss fight, since your party members will be the ones healing him. I thought: "Hey, what if I get my allies downed, maybe then I could solo fight the boss?". Nope, allies even when downed will still heal the boss lol. It feels like Toby wants you to enjoy his game in a certain way and actively punishes players for trying to think outside the box

 

[smartgenius55583433157]

 

[Star Classic]

The same toby that put ralsei in a dress and said he wanted to be a princess?

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Ver archivo adjunto 9198956

I don't get it.

 

[Star Classic]

I don't get it.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Genuine schizophrenic Evil Susie theory

Some fucking 4chan nigger is reading this thread and taking all my posts and compiled them lmao.
I said pretty much all that shit.
Especially the plushie shit.
My schizophrenia is being robbed!
Ah well, so long as it gets the message out.

 

[Star Classic]

The only "friend inside me" was Blue evidently.

 

[howtohatemyself]

Some fucking 4chan nigger is reading this thread and taking all my posts and compiled them lmao.
I said pretty much all that shit.
Especially the plushie shit.
My schizophrenia is being robbed!
Ah well, so long as it gets the message out.

Half the reason it caught my eye, lol. Didn't know who took from who.

 

[WE'RE ALL GONNA]

Some fucking 4chan nigger is reading this thread and taking all my posts and compiled them lmao.
I said pretty much all that shit.
Especially the plushie shit.
My schizophrenia is being robbed!
Ah well, so long as it gets the message out.

Good theory bro, makes my time enduring Tricky Toby's yuri ntr, negro ballerinas and ralsei trooning out worth it

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Here's some more fuel to the "Susie is a manipulative cunt" fire.
In Deltarune, the line "What does it feel like to be made of blood" is said to a human (Kris), strongly implying that Deltarune monsters are made of dust still.
When Susie punches the prophecy pane and it shatters though, it bleeds. We know from Undertale that "Suzy" was connected to Gaster from the Goners.
So what if the Gaster Followers are all somehow able to bleed?
Because in Undertale, Sans also bleeds at the end of the fight (I don't buy the 'haha it was ketchup' shit, he was bleeding from his mouth and then walked off screen before he died. (Sans is Gaster's strongest soldier the motherfucker even has GASTER BLASTERS and knows the world is fake bullshit)
And the one thing Sans excels at most in Undertale is twisting the established rules of a game to work entirely in his favour without outright breaking them.
And if you take the fact that the prophecy is meant to exist as 'established rules' that Susie is twisting to work in her favour?
Well it looks bad on Evil Barney the Dinosaur.
Even her battle theme feels wrong, the more you think about it. "Vs. Susie"
Imagine it all loops back to kino and the final boss theme is just "Vs. Dragon".

 

[TyrasGuard]

My theory on this is that the original plot of the game was very, very similar to Omori and Toby had to rewrite a lot of it.

I'm honestly wondering if the game he was talking about was YIIK.

I really don't see the similarities with Omori, it's like an entirely different game if you have played it. It's a very basic plot with a very obvious twist.

 

[ducktales4gameboy]

Well that sure was a chapter where fucking nothing happened. The last thing this game needed was more situations with setup and no payoff.

What happened to the 'weird route is substantial in ch5' we were teased?

Couple things I'm wondering about but not going to replay to find out:

It really is a shame that Berdly is not gonna have any impact on the story from now

Hypothetically what happens if you start a Snowgrave route and then abort it after Berdly gets frozen? Does he still come to the festival in 5? If he doesn't, how is the jail cell scene involving his feather handled? Also, is there an indirect implication here that Kris opened the one of the flower shop dark world entrances at the end of 4 and went in early to make the deal with Seth?

Also, is there any actual change if you immediately mute the voice acting as soon as Flowery is introduced, before Ralsei can say anything about it? That whole segment felt like it was building to something and Ralsei starting to loredump about the goddamned user interface of all things only to be preempted by Susie and the whole thing dropped instantly made it feel like something optional I missed out on.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

More "New Timeline" theory shit.
So, we know that Kris in the current timeline is dying because he has no soul and he needs to use the player soul to live. I'm thinking what's happened is that he gave his original soul to Rudy at this point, as we know that monsters with human souls are able to do some crazy shit from Undertale.
We don't know the full prophecy, either.
Alright, possible theory change, because I think that deep down, Kris was always meant to be the Knight, but that the Knight in the original timeline wasn't the antagonist.
- THE KNIGHT WHICH MAKES
WITH BLACKENED KNIFE.
-SHALL DUEL WITH HEROES
STRIFE BY STRIFE.
You can take "With" to mean two things, either the Knight fights AGAINST the heroes, or the Knight duels with the heroes against something else.

I think in the original version of events, Susie was probably the one opening up all the Dark Fountains, and some of that carries over here. (Think how fucked up and horrible the 2nd Sanctuary is after Susie creates it, meanwhile Kris' Dark Worlds are generally alright, same for even the Knight) and she was probably something like the "Roaring Dragon" or some bullshit. (Knights aren't exactly known for roaring, Dragons are.)

This is pure schizobabble, but I'm theorycrafting here.
Best theory now is that Kris is trying to get what he lost back using the prophecy, which is why the knight has the same stances that Kris does not because of some deep connection to Dess or whatever the fuck, but because the Knight literally has Kris' original soul.

 

[Coolio55]

Random schizo theory that probably isn't true. Ralsei is a temporally displaced Dreemurr from another timeline where he's Asriel's biological younger brother instead of them adopting Kris. This is why he's a prince of the dark. It's like how Asgore said he and Toriel are king and queen so Kris is a prince, Asriel would be the prince of the light because he's their actual son in the Light World that exists, while Ralsei is the prince of the dark because he's an entity that doesn't exist in this timeline and is confined to the Dark World. That's why he has no real opinions or interests, and struggles to understand his own personality; because he was never born or lived a life where he would find those things out.

I'm honestly wondering if the game he was talking about was YIIK.

I really don't see the similarities with Omori, it's like an entirely different game if you have played it. It's a very basic plot with a very obvious twist.

>Ralsei is Asriel's YIIK soulspace brother
あああああああああああああああああ!!!

Spoiler

...yes, I know they're both ripping off Murakami.
Shut up! SHUT UPP!!!

I think the real wrench in things is how the story has this clear, unresolved tension with Kris, like he's not fine with how things are like the yurifags are, because that means the story broadly only really has two ways it could go. 1. We're meant to sympathize with Kris and feel like there's something off with Susie and Noelle together, which a lot of people don't believe Toby would "betray" his faggoty fans to do. 2. We're meant to think Susie and Noelle are cute together, in which case the story is being intentionally cruel and mean-spirited to Kris for unclear reasons and that would be a lot more malicious than any Toby has ever written before.

Keep in mind that Papyrus was supposed to be a neckbeard who watched "My Little Boney" but Toby cut it off because he thought it was too nasty and vowed to never write anything like that again.
~ Really makes you wonder ~

Seth and Green are both women and no one will change my mind on this.

Publicar en el tema 'Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion'

Jueves a las 18:54

I don't see what's so special with green, its a literal genderspecial blob from tumblr.

I'd like to point out that Green was clearly designed by the Megaman Sprite Game guy and appears to be a pseudo self-insert.
Here's how Brotoad draws himself:

• Coolio55

Reacciones: x 2 x 2 x 5 x 1

 

[smartgenius55583433157]

 

[Cun75p4rkl35]

WAIT A MINUTE I GOT IT
KRIS AND SUSIE AREN'T GOING TO FIGHT BECAUSE SUSIE'S LIKE "i'M THE PROPHECY HERO AND YOU'RE EVIL GET OUT OF MY FRIEND, DEMON"
NO IT'S GONNA BE SOME DUMB SHIT EITHER ABOUT HOW KRIS IS JEALOUS AND THEY FIGHT OVER NOELLE OR KRIS IS PISSY SUSIE LIKES NOELLE MORE THAN HIM
GODDAMNIT TOBY

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

WAIT A MINUTE I GOT IT
KRIS AND SUSIE AREN'T GOING TO FIGHT BECAUSE SUSIE'S LIKE "i'M THE PROPHECY HERO AND YOU'RE EVIL GET OUT OF MY FRIEND, DEMON"
NO IT'S GONNA BE SOME DUMB SHIT EITHER ABOUT HOW KRIS IS JEALOUS AND THEY FIGHT OVER NOELLE OR KRIS IS PISSY SUSIE LIKES NOELLE MORE THAN HIM
GODDAMNIT TOBY

This is the COAL timeline, but I'm still holding out for that GEM future. The future we all desire.
And if Toby doesn't deliver, I'll write the entire story, learn how to fucking make a videogame and then make it myself.