Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

[Hideous K]

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Crazy theories aside, look at this insanity. The hammer game is, as stated by Noelle, a game to determine how strong is the bond between two people. Noelle x Susie leads to Susie cheating to get a score, because they can't do it properly. Susie x Kris leads to them beating each other with hammers. Kris x Noelle will ALWAYS score a point, no matter if you wait ten seconds, or just hit as soon as you're allowed to, Noelle will always hit at the same time as you.

I genuinely can't tell if this is cope or not at this point. On one hand literally all evidence in the game, all the setup established up until this point, all the breadcrumbs, the established chemistry and all meta knowledge of good writing points to kris and susie.

On the other hand, the writer has a blantant yuri NTR fetish, multiple trannies in the writing team, put a literally niggerfaggot couple front and center for 40% of the chapter and had a gendergoblin cope session as a mandatory part of the story.

I'll be honest I don't like the odds and I think all of you are just coping on straws.

 

[Cucktry Roads]

Saw this and laughed.

 

[Cun75p4rkl35]

I will maintain a level of hope for my own sanity but I'm almost certain that CH6 will fail to live up to that hope and make me incredibly depressed.

God how I loathe when there's something good going and you see a lot of potential and then they force you to sit here like Alex Delarge and watch while they set it all on fire to please people who couldn't give less of a shit

 

[Ice Fairy]

Susie not-so-subtly trying to replace Kris with Noelle could be building up to something, such as Susie blaming herself for Kris's potential future betrayal. If any of her behavior is actually recognized as negative, of course.

The deer lying dead on the side of the road and the barney looking bitch are going to be forced to kill him (Kris (male)) like how the alt universe Doc Strange got killed in the awful multiverse movie only MauLer saw and the epilogue will focus on how happy and wholesome chungus and kawaii xd their faggot relationship is. This will noticeably imply that the world is better with Kris dead and that if he had killed himself at the beginning of the game everything would have been better. The goycattle fans will be too focused on the faggotry to care.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

Finally managed to beat the secret boss and finish the game so I could look at spoilers.

The FUCK is going on in the Weird Route?!

 

[MisterListerTheBlister]

 

[Retarded Weeb]

I think the real wrench in things is how the story has this clear, unresolved tension with Kris, like he's not fine with how things are like the yurifags are, because that means the story broadly only really has two ways it could go. 1. We're meant to sympathize with Kris and feel like there's something off with Susie and Noelle together, which a lot of people don't believe Toby would "betray" his faggoty fans to do. 2. We're meant to think Susie and Noelle are cute together, in which case the story is being intentionally cruel and mean-spirited to Kris for unclear reasons and that would be a lot more malicious than any Toby has ever written before.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

I have a theory.

What if Kris is the one who “disappeared” Dess because she was getting too close to Ariel and Kris thought he was going to lose his closet friend/brother to “some bitch”?

And now he’s made a new close friend with Susie…only for Dess’s little sister to “steal” Susie away too?

 

[Dorothy]

I think the real wrench in things is how the story has this clear, unresolved tension with Kris, like he's not fine with how things are like the yurifags are, because that means the story broadly only really has two ways it could go. 1. We're meant to sympathize with Kris and feel like there's something off with Susie and Noelle together, which a lot of people don't believe Toby would "betray" his faggoty fans to do. 2. We're meant to think Susie and Noelle are cute together, in which case the story is being intentionally cruel and mean-spirited to Kris for unclear reasons and that would be a lot more malicious than any Toby has ever written before.

I think like someone said this "relationship" is gonna fall apart maybe in chap 6.

Yurifags can then maybe push them back together. Or shoot your shot with them.

 

[Sunset Ethernia]

She's one of those fucking Goners. I know it, I just can't prove it.

she is the gonerkid in undertale, she literally doesn't exist in that world, that's why she says "What if the world was exactly the same, except you don't exist?" and "Please forget about me". just like how gaster and clamgirl don't exist in undertale

i always have thought that susie wasn't able to be controlled. this is would be the reason why she breaks the rules. why she can not equip ribbons. why she can't even be properly described in the prophecy. the reason why she would not date noelle. but oh well, in this chapter she started equipping ribbons, lesbian fuckery piled up etc. i think toby lost the plot.

 

[Bitchy Babylonian Barber]

I think like someone said this "relationship" is gonna fall apart maybe in chap 6.

Yurifags can then maybe push them back together. Or shoot your shot with them.

God don't give me hope that the authors forced relationship will fall apart.

You want my take, call it pessimistic; but the chapters going to have one of those episodic plots (fitting given it's a bunch of fucking episodes) where Susie and Noelle disagree on a small detail or misinterpret shit for some stupid reason and oh Lordy they get into the obligatory fight or the hamfisted "I don't know who you are anymore" shtick during Chapter 6. Probably trying to invite Noelle into the Dark World has Noelle freak out too much and she bolts off, and the sane amongst us sigh that the forced yuri shit can be put to rest for now. But by the end of the chapter (or even in the middle of it) it goes right back to Suselle shenanigans with the two of them having 'developed' off-screen or forcing us to sit through yet another yuri bullshit scene.
The 'best outcome' for this is that the relationship nosedives in Chapter 6 through the same episodic contrivances and this is where we get our 'serious and gritty' scenery is that Suselle is declared over, Susie gets mega-depressed and can't stop bitching about Noelle and continues to be a sad-sack into Chapter 7 where Noelle comes back and declares that she was wrong to run away and not accept Susie and Castle Town's inhabitants and all is hunky dory while Kris (and us) sit from the eternal cuck chair.

 

[_______________________-]

Oh by the way, yet to play the fifth chapter but does giving Tenna to Mettaton (or whatever xhe's called in this game) change anything in the chapter?

 

[Slumbie]

I expect big things from this guy in the near future.

 

[Dorothy]

There are still threesome jokes at the start of chapter 5. It could work if the two were part of Kris' battle slave harem, but it ain't that kind of work.


The "fell down" mention could be he literally fell down the stairs, or he fell down and is close to death. Either way, I don't think he's going to die, not immediately at least.

This might also be a bullshit lie by Carol to get Noelle home.

 

[Cucktry Roads]

Oh by the way, yet to play the fifth chapter but does giving Tenna to Mettaton (or whatever xhe's called in this game) change anything in the chapter?

No. If you knock on the ghost door, you can hear Hapstablook talking to Tenna, doesn't seem like he's Mettaton yet. You can also hear an angry voice yelling about something. It's unknown if the angry voice was Him fighting with himself, or if that was the Mad Dummy ghost yelling about something before possessing the Mew Mew doll in Asgore's truck.

 

[Dorothy]

No. If you knock on the ghost door, you can hear Hapstablook talking to Tenna, doesn't seem like he's Mettaton yet. You can also hear an angry voice yelling about something. It's unknown if the angry voice was Him fighting with himself, or if that was the Mad Dummy ghost yelling about something before possessing the Mew Mew doll in Asgore's truck.

Kind of a big deal that another lightner knows now.

 

[Sunset Ethernia]

Oh god!
My schizo instincts are tingling, and now I'm going to go for the "new timeline" theory.
Where the shadow crystals allow Kris to see the prior timeline before Susie pulled some major bullshit, because think about it... Susie acts almost like a fucking fix-it fic self insert protagonist who steals the girl from the actual protagonist no matter how little sense it makes.
Tenna is also 100% meant to die but Susie could fix him, Jackenstein too.
Then there's shit like:

• For some strange reason, for a brief moment, it looked like...
• Everyone else disappeared...
• ... and you saw Noelle smiling at you, with arms full of flowers.

and
You thought you saw Noelle close against you, whispering
For Noelle
and
You thought you saw Susie glaring at you, coldly...
or
You thought you saw Susie in a far-off window, unkempt and glaring.
For Susie
This is all to say, Susie is either responsible or a symptom of somebody altering the timeline in order to change the past and future that Kris was meant to have, a lost dream indeed. This purple dinosaur cunt self-inserted herself into KRIS' life to REPLACE him, and the prophecy, which is noted as being unchangeable even in the shadow crystal is fucked up and is forcing Noelle to now feel things for Susie, instead of Kris. (Where the world is confused and there are still moments of perfect synchronicity for Noelle and Kris like the compatibility tester, yet when Susie does it with her, she needs to force things all by herself.) Now, this could be schizobabble, you could even call it cope, but if Toby pulls this off and makes Susie the actual villain I will laugh for a solid ten minutes straight.
Flay this purple dinosaur nigger. She's one of those fucking Goners. I know it, I just can't prove it.

WAIT now i thought about it again...

It all makes sense. Didn't Gerson told her that 'the pen was left for the youth', as if pen of hope for susie? Doesn't this on it's own imply that this fucking nigger is gonna rewrite the prophecy?

FUCK FUCK FUCK How i did not see this, that dragons are the enemy?! Like, the weird route have been fully justified at this point already. and now this...

what does the "you saw undyne, frozen in ice" mean then tho? what a lost dream is that?

 

[Spamton G. Spamton]

HOOCHIE MAMA, I [saw through the looking glass] AND CALLED IT THAT THE [rough riding, tough tootin'!] COWBOY WOULD COM3

[YIPPIE!!!]

Spoiler: FRIENDINSIDEME

 

[howtohatemyself]

Taken from an anon over on 4chan. Unless they took it from somewhere else. Seems to compile much of our discussion into one theory.

-------

Genuine schizophrenic Evil Susie theory

>gazing into the black shards displays some alternative reality
>one constant in those alternate realities is that Susie is miserable, and hates Kris specifically
>new shards also display Noelle being happy with Kris
>from contextual clues, conversations and material outside the game we know Susie is a pariah that lives in less-than-ideal conditions
>through pure coincidental circumstances, she and Kris stumble into the dark world together and start the whole adventure
>Susie befriends Kris, and slowly makes her way into his (small) friend circle
>by chapter two, she enjoys a (relatively) stable home by having a sleepover at Kris’ home
>by chapter four, she’s actively hanging out with Noelle and partaking in social activities in the town (e.g. the church)
>this reaches a breaking point where Susie suddenly confesses to Noelle and starts turbofocusing on their relationship, as well as taking ownership of Castle Town
>this is because the entire plot, and reality itself is bending to Susie’s will
>for the sake of this theory, we shall consider two timelines/realities
>the ORIGINAL timeline and the CURRENT timeline
>the black shards reveal glimpses into the ORIGINAL timeline
>in this ORIGINAL timeline, Susie is, was, and will always be a dysfunctional girl
>Kris is a guy who doesn’t have many friends, but he’s close to Noelle and has a loving family
>some fucked up shit happened that possibly led to Dess disappearing and Kris being irreparably damaged
>Kris also goes on adventures on the dark world, being one of the heroes described in the prophecy
>Susie is extremely jealous of Kris for having practically everything she ever desired
>by some means, Susie obtains the opportunity to step into an altered reality where things will go her way
>either by Gaster, some other entity, or by her own means
>all the cryptic DEVICE stuff is related to all the dimension-altering bullshit
>Susie steps into this new reality, which is the CURRENT timeline we experience in the game
>(YOU), the soul, is an agent of Gaster (AKA Gasterglowie)
>(YOU)’re tasked with entering the CURRENT timeline
>either Gaster is asking you to fix the alteration to his DELTARUNE
>or, he wants you to observe because he thinks it will be interesting
>in the CURRENT timeline, EVERYTHING and EVERYONE starts obsessing with Susie
>Noelle gets brain damage and starts drooling over Susie
>Kris gets close to Susie and starts developing feelings as well
>Berdly falls over heels the moment she solves a very basic puzzle
>reality itself seems to be bending over to appease Susie, every character fawns over and praises her
>she gets really excited when she learns she’s part of the prophecy
>the hidden part of the prophecy that makes her angry enough to break it is up in the air
>however, we can guess that it will be something that will make her lose her perfect world
>this is literally a fucking mary sue self-insert fanfic like holy shit there’s no way Toby is writing something so fucking bad
>Susie has practically usurped Kris’ place in the timeline
>by Ch5, her ego is growing so big she doesn’t even bother being subtle anymore, hence the absolutely rushed and shitty writing where Susie starts completely seizing everything
>by now she is also realizing Kris’ life isn’t sunshine and rainbows
>she’s jealous he has a loving father and mother?
>actually they’re divorced, Toriel is a mess and Asgore is a schizo
>she’s jealous of his relationship with Noelle?
>their relationship is really strained at best, since the Dreemurs and Holidays have grown distant thanks to the VAGUE TRAGEDY
>whenever she notes Kris’ life is far from ideal, she’s not empathizing with him, she’s getting frustrated she didn’t get a perfect life
>there’s still traces of the ORIGINAL timeline that hint something is not going well
>for example
>the hammer game from the Ch5 festival
>Noelle and Kris get a perfect score, because in the ORGINAL timeline they’re supposed to be together
>Noelle and Susie does not work. Susie has to cheat to ring the bell (THIS IS REALLY FUCKING IMPORTANT, Ch1-4 SUSIE WOULDN’T DO THIS BUT AT THIS POINT SHE ISN’T EVEN BOTHERING TO HIDE IT ANYMORE)
>Noelle without Susie and Noelle with Susie seem like two completely different characters
>like she straight up loses 50 points of IQ whenever Susie is in the same room
>MEANWHILE
>ENTER SNOWGRAVE NOELLE
>Snowgrave consists of (YOU) mindRAPING Noelle with higher knowledge
>basically (YOU)’re using your META GASTERGLOWIE powers to completely break the game with Noelle
>can’t kill enemies? Snowgrave
>can’t leave the map? Snowgrave
>can’t break Susie’s fanfic world? That’s right SNOWGRAVE
>SNOGRAVE Noelle recognizes she’s basically an NPC on a set path, just like everyone else, fated to serve Susie’s self-fulfillment fantasy
>SNOWGRAVE is basically the knot-cutting solution to the Susie problem
>(YOU)’re basically breaking the world apart and Gaster is probably looking at it and thinking “based retard”
>so how does this work on the NORMAL route?
>WELL IM GLAD YOU ASKED
>the NORMAL route is basically normal gameplay where you complete the chapters normally without investigating further
>everyone plays their part, Susie saves the day, everyone loves her, the end
>Kris fucking dies from SOULaids or something or is left to rot in a corner, forgotten
>Susie fully takes over Kris’ life, is adopted by the Dreemurrs, bangs Noelle on his bed
>HOWEVER
>if you beat all the schizo bosses
>if you get all the dark shards
>you get a DARK MIRROR
>which lets you gaze into the ORIGINAL timeline
>this fixes the CURRENT timeline or at least breaks Susie’s control over it
>like idk maybe it unrapes people’s minds and makes them stop acting like little Susieapes
>Susie freaks the fuck out over you breaking her perfect reality
>she absolutely refuses to go back to her miserable life
>FUCKING ENTER VS SUSIE 2, THE FINAL BOSS OF DELTARUNE
>THE KNIGHT (KRIS) IS FIGHTING THE DRAGON (SUSIE) TO SAVE THE PRINCESS (NOELLE) ALL IS RIGHT AGAIN
>it’s really fucking hard because you’ve spent the entire game making her stronger and getting her good gear
>as the fight rages on Susie becomes more and more desperate over maintaining her dream reality
>starts outright begging Kris to let her have it
>once you defeat her you get two choices
>BIG CHUNGUS WHOLESOME choice where you forgive her (which is what everyone will pick)
>FUCKING KILL HER choice (the logical choice FUCK THIS DYKE)
>if Toby is a fucking hack then BIG CHUNGUS WHOLESOME choice will lead to you welcoming her back into your life so she can be happy without fucking you over
>ALTERNATIVELY, if Toby is NOT a hack and does something similar to Asriel’s fate in the TRVE PACIFIST route on Undertale, then Susie will either fade away, or return to her fucked up timeline after admitting what she did was fucked, but you will still hug her and cry
>like literally it’s just the flowey thing again with a being fucking with timelines in order to get the happiest ending to themselves (and given enough time maybe Susie would too grow bored and start fucking with people just because)
>this is the schizo fever dream bullshit Toby keeps talking about: an antagonist or a minor character usurping the protagonist’s place (which he partially transplanted into Undertale since Deltarune, as a concept, came before)
>assuming Toby isn’t mentally retarded and is running for the BIGGEST HACK OF THE MILLENIA award then this is the massive twist the whole story is building towards
>like CAN YOU IMAGINE all the people who love Susie as a character reacting to this ending it would be so fucking funny
>SOMEONE also suggested that the reason why there’s no plushies of Susie (or any light world characters) is that this twist would lead to a TOTAL SUSIE PLUSHIE GENOCIDE (which would be extremely fucking funny like holy shit Toby fucking do it)
>TL;DR: Susie is trying to FUCKIGN CUCK the protagonist out of his story
>BUT WHAT ABOUT THE EGGS ANON???
>well I’m glad you asked because THEY DON’T MEAN ANYTHING YOU FUCKING RETARD IT’S JUST A QUIRKY CHUNGUS L I T E R A L EASTER EGG