Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

[Jhonny Jhon]

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

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Ironically, given the circumstances, Susie is Griffith fucking Kris' love interest, and Kris is the one fighting against fate.
Even more so if you buy into the altered prophecy theory I'm starting to spread.

 

[Two Dollars]

Oh god!
My schizo instincts are tingling, and now I'm going to go for the "new timeline" theory.
Where the shadow crystals allow Kris to see the prior timeline before Susie pulled some major bullshit, because think about it... Susie acts almost like a fucking fix-it fic self insert protagonist who steals the girl from the actual protagonist no matter how little sense it makes.
Tenna is also 100% meant to die but Susie could fix him, Jackenstein too.
Then there's shit like:

• For some strange reason, for a brief moment, it looked like...
• Everyone else disappeared...
• ... and you saw Noelle smiling at you, with arms full of flowers.

and
You thought you saw Noelle close against you, whispering
For Noelle
and
You thought you saw Susie glaring at you, coldly...
or
You thought you saw Susie in a far-off window, unkempt and glaring.
For Susie
This is all to say, Susie is either responsible or a symptom of somebody altering the timeline in order to change the past and future that Kris was meant to have, a lost dream indeed. This purple dinosaur cunt self-inserted herself into KRIS' life to REPLACE him, and the prophecy, which is noted as being unchangeable even in the shadow crystal is fucked up and is forcing Noelle to now feel things for Susie, instead of Kris. (Where the world is confused and there are still moments of perfect synchronicity for Noelle and Kris like the compatibility tester, yet when Susie does it with her, she needs to force things all by herself.) Now, this could be schizobabble, you could even call it cope, but if Toby pulls this off and makes Susie the actual villain I will laugh for a solid ten minutes straight.
Flay this purple dinosaur nigger. She's one of those fucking Goners. I know it, I just can't prove it.

Holy shit. This would explain:

• Why Noelle is so obsessed with Susie
• Why all the other main characters love Susie
• Why so many plot contrivances bring Susie and Noelle together
• Why there’s such a big disconnect between “normal” Noelle and WR Noelle
• How “Suzy” can be mentioned in Undertale
• How Toby is able to add a bunch of forced yurishit that not only doesn't ruin the story, but may enhance it in the long run

What is this feeling…? Is this… what trusting the dog feels like…? I’m gonna… I’m gonna… HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPE!!!!!

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

It's gonna be a long year.

 

[TyrasGuard]

Holy shit. This would explain:

• Why Noelle is so obsessed with Susie
• Why all the other main characters love Susie
• Why so many plot contrivances bring Susie and Noelle together
• Why there’s such a big disconnect between “normal” Noelle and WR Noelle
• How “Suzy” can be mentioned in Undertale
• How Toby is able to add a bunch of forced yurishit that not only doesn't ruin the story, but may enhance it in the long run

What is this feeling…? Is this… what trusting the dog feels like…? I’m gonna… I’m gonna… HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPE!!!!!

I mean, you are just making Susie the DR version of Poochie at this point.

 

[Two Dollars]

I mean, you are just making Susie the DR version of Poochie at this point.

Gaster:
>One, Susie needs to be louder, angrier, and have access to a time machine. Two, whenever Susie’s not on screen, all the other characters should be asking "Where's Susie"? Three-

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

I mean you are just making Susie the DR version of Poochie at this point.

I mean, she practically is.
Hell, when you look at Susie from a less generous lens, even her early showings start to look very suspect. Oh so she just happened to eat all of Alphys' chalk which just so happened to lead to her and Kris being sent to the Storage Closet to pick up some more which caused the two of them to visit the Dark World? Either she's an exceptionally good actor and knew already, it was pure coincidence, or something in her head told her to do that.
She goes from being Susie, the feared vagrant girl at the start of the story to "Susie! I actually secretly have a crush on you and think you're really cool!" by far too many people in the span of 3 fucking days.
Something is extremely fucky. A lot of stuff about Susie is weird and doesn't seem to quite match, but the world keeps carrying on anyway, pretending like it does.

 

[Hideous K]

He's shown himself able to write both Susie and Noelle well, but it's either his IQ drops 50 points whenever he's making them interact, or the point is to make the observant player feel uncomfortable.

My thoughts might be far-fetched but I think that Toby's leash is been controlled by one or many of the FanGamer executives, I'm still wrapping my head over how the quality of the writing took a nosedive this quickly with both the light world and dark world just failing to meet expectation from all sides.

 

[Slumbie]

Something is extremely fucky. A lot of stuff about Susie is weird and doesn't seem to quite match, but the world keeps carrying on anyway, pretending like it does.

Could it just be that Toby is a bad writer?

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Could it just be that Toby is a bad writer?

I mean, it's always possible. But idk, it just feels like he's setting up too much in the background to not have some secret big twist planned that he REALLY wants to shock everyone with. Something way bigger than "Knight is actually whoever guys haha!"
Tricky Tony might be a faggot, but if there's a single motherfucker who would actually unironically go with the "No, you don't understand, that episode was bad on purpose, because there's going to be a big change that recontextualises everything!" thing people cope about when something sucks, it's him.

 

[Cucktry Roads]

Complete speculation at this point, we have no idea who the knight is or what their motive is.

At least if Rudy is the Knight he's seriously injured and can't help so the DW may just be Kris distracting Susie and stalling for time. If it's Carol or Dess then I have no fuckin clue.

I'm a firm believer of Rudy knight after chapter 5. The knight falling injured animation after crashing into the wall and the fact Rudy acts like he's stalling in the weird route has moved him over to being the main suspect now. I was thinking about the chapter 2 cutscene between him and Noelle where he was playing her video game really bad. I bet he did the same thing with Dess with her baseball and skating. Bet the reason why the roaring knight has the figure skating pose is cause Rudy would've been joking around with Dess while skating.

My theorized timeline now
- Asriel and Dess find dark worlds, go in and do genocide routes.
- Lock Jevil away
- Bunker dark world opens, they go inside with Kris and maybe Noelle. Shit hits the fan real quick.
- Dess gets lured away by Friend and gets lost in the darkness
- Asriel or Kris panic and go and get Asgore
- Vagueposting Asgore stuff happened and dark world is somehow sealed
- Asgore seen as a joke by telling everyone what happened and why Dess is gone.
- Rudy and Carol eventually investigate and find all this Dark World stuff is real and want to get Dess back.
- Kris wants to help get Dess back. Gives his soul to Rudy, who uses it and something in the dark world to become the roaring knight. Gives Rudy powers for a certain amount of time, being able to overpowered undyne and asgore, but is draining his life. Carol managing everything going on.
- Gaster puts the Red Soul the following day into Kris since something was wrong with his Deltarune that shouldn't have happened.

Seemingly no defensive value, even the item description says it's useless, but looking at the game's code it helps you resist... Cat damage? What could this mean? Could this have some relevance to Friend? Perhaps foreshadowing our puppet, the mannequin we've possessed, Kris, being the only thing that can resist this evil cat creature Thing? No.

The deal maker also has hidden stats. It has a 30% resistance to puppets and cats. Plus there was that new item at the Smith which combined tenna and the fray bootie from spamtons shop to make a cat resistance item. I think theyll also be used again on Friend

If the Knight is Rudy, maybe he could just drag Asgore to the Light World and say "trust me bro, you should follow me to the shelter, there's something cool in there"?

See my theory above. Still wondering why carol didn't just have asgore go to the bunker instead of the flower dark world bs.

 

[TheCrackMonkey]

But wasn't Chapter 5 all part of Gaster's doing given he's supposed to be behind the games events?

Idk maybe Gaster got exceptionally lazy this time and ended up outsourcing Chris development to a bunch of demonic grannies literally from Hell.

 

[Cryogonal2]

if it's such a FRIEND why does it hurt you?

 

[LoogerLike]

if it's such a FRIEND why does it hurt you?

could say the same thing about susie, to be fair

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

if it's such a FRIEND why does it hurt you?

Depends on whose friend

 

[Bob Barbas]

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I can't believe in Chapter 6 Kris betrays the gang and starts the roaring to become the king of darkness before raping Noelle in front of Susie and Susie loses her right eye and left arm and goes on a fiery revenge path after Kris and gets a cool giant sword. Toby I kneel!

Spoiler

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

At least the Pizzapants subplot was good. Suffa Nicepants shippers.

A completely reasonable crashout AND it rejected The Gay because it was completely illogical.

If only Toby learned his lesson.

 

[Two Dollars]

Maybe we can at least agree that even if this is some kind of 10D underwater backgammon move from Toby, he should’ve waited to release Chapters 5 and 6 together so the fanbase wouldn’t be left speculating for a year about how much of a hack he is or isn’t.

 

[smartgenius55583433157]

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I can't belive Seth would say that!

Aqua would think it's a game and throw as much bricks as she can at trans people for fun