Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

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Is there any evidence that Noelle was potentially romantically interested in Kris? This game is too drenched in faggotry for me to believe the contrary. Does she really have him as wallpaper? That's fucking weird.
 
Is there any evidence that Noelle was potentially romantically interested in Kris? This game is too drenched in faggotry for me to believe the contrary. Does she really have him as wallpaper? That's fucking weird.
Noelle is pretty weird, once you get past the "childhood friend" angle. Probably carrying a ton of trauma from losing her sister, her dad being constantly sick and her mum being a huge frigid bitch.
 
There's a massive thing that I think we've sorta glossed over in the whole "altered prophecy" thing, and that's chapter 3.
I mentioned last week that I think the prophecy got altered in chapter 5. Gerson said that chapter 5 was supposed to be the garden getting consumed by an inferno of jealous, which I assumed was Ralsei burning the garden to ashes because of Flowery, with Flowery knowing that Ralsei was going to do it and tempting him to be the bigger man and change the prophecy.

It is possible that it also got altered in chapter 3, but I think Ralsei would've known. You gotta wander if Tenna just treated the Shadow Mantle minigame like a used vhs home recording where he just recorded over it to make his game.
 
It's at least not entirely "who is this person" to "I love you", even if it was only stated later.
Even with the addition of "Susie totally always liked Noelle" it's still literally that.

Noelle and Susie have directly interacted once prior to the events of the game. Now over the course of 4 days and a grand total of 3 conversations that last more than 30 seconds they've gone from essentially strangers to acting like Morticia and Gomez Adams.
 
Is there any evidence that Noelle was potentially romantically interested in Kris? This game is too drenched in faggotry for me to believe the contrary. Does she really have him as wallpaper? That's fucking weird.
Evidence wise? No.
Personally I think it's more so implied Kris has/had a onesided crush on Noelle, based off the way he blushes when Noelle talks to Susie about him or his tard rage over us PROCEEDing with her.
It seems like Noelle mostly thinks Kris was weird and didn't like the way he always tried scaring her when they were younger. Although one can infer that her being into Susie because she likes the bullying shit (even making weird remarks about wanting to be on the receiving end of physical attacks) could point to her maybe also secretly liking Kris terrorizing her, too???
I think that she did value their closeness when they were young but as they got older he changed and they grew apart. Didn't stop her from downplaying their relationship to Susie, though..
 
The secret boss no one invited
HMG8RiRWIAAq32b.mp4
Tbh. Placing mew mew between Jevil and Spamton, while making Gerson the last secret boss, would've reduce the letdown she was.

Shifting the events of ch 5 between 2 and 3 would overall fix some problems:
- Have Kris, Susie and Noelle go to the festival together.
- Expand upon long running friendship between Kris and Noelle, by having Noelle tell Sussie about events from past festivals.
- Replace forced puppy love between Susie and Noelle with them simply getting to know each other, like kids do when they make a new friend
- Add Berdly as a third wheel (provided the player didn't choose to turn him into Kris's Frozen Chicken), constantly popping up, trying to impress Susie or Noelle. Add a joke route where you spend the festival with Berdly instead.
- Noelle is still called away due to some emergency, so Kris and Susie are go to check Asgore and find a dark would already there
- Instead of Japanese theme, Asgore's dark world is a garden with a gothic castle on the hill
- Remove the knight from the chapter entirely, until the reveal in Tenna's chapter
- Asgore still pushes kids out of the Dark world, but he elaborates that it's dangerous and he doesn't want Susie or Kris to get hurt.
- In the end, Kris seals the fountain. Everything goes back to normal and Asgore asks the kids to keep the existence dark worlds a secret.
- While events of church chapter go unchanged, have Asgore to capture the Knight trying to escape the church and end up being carried away.

Chapter 5, in its current state, is simply a waste.
A lot would have to done in the last two chapters to recover from this letdown.
 
Is there any evidence that Noelle was potentially romantically interested in Kris? This game is too drenched in faggotry for me to believe the contrary. Does she really have him as wallpaper? That's fucking weird.
Most of the 'Noelle in love with Kris' content is hidden in the main route.
1. The shadow crystals flavor text.
You thought you saw Noelle close against you, whispering. [Noelle's House, Chapter 4]
For some strange reason, for a brief moment, it looked like...
Everyone else disappeared...
... and you saw Noelle smiling at you, with arms full of flowers. [Flower Kingdom Garden]
2. Festival interactions if you vote for Kris as King and Noelle as Queen. She mentions asking Kris to vote that way when they were children, and 'cried her eyes out' after they lost. If you ride the ferris wheel with her afterward, the scene feels very romantic.
3. Her blog, despite it being outside of the game, is way more romantic than anything she ever said or wrote about Susie. https://deltarune.com/kris_dreemurr_kris/
4. The whole weird route.
The main vibe is that she used to be in love with Kris, but something changed.
Is it setting up NTR? Or is it setting up Susie's relationship falling apart? You decide.
 
Evidence wise? No.
Personally I think it's more so implied Kris has/had a onesided crush on Noelle, based off the way he blushes when Noelle talks to Susie about him or his tard rage over us PROCEEDing with her.
It seems like Noelle mostly thinks Kris was weird and didn't like the way he always tried scaring her when they were younger. Although one can infer that her being into Susie because she likes the bullying shit (even making weird remarks about wanting to be on the receiving end of physical attacks) could point to her maybe also secretly liking Kris terrorizing her, too???
I think that she did value their closeness when they were young but as they got older he changed and they grew apart. Didn't stop her from downplaying their relationship to Susie, though..
Noelle's feelings on Kris are just complicated. They used to be close, but Kris was a little shit, they grew apart, and Noelle does miss the time back when they were kids even if she doesn't really understand why. Her feelings of being trapped in her life and not really being alive since Dess disappeared and she stopped hanging out with Kris are present in both routes but she doesn't really admit them out loud except in the WR.

You could interpret it as a kind of puppy love sort of deal but it's not presented as overtly romantic. Outside of some hints and flavor text like the crystal stuff her feelings on Kris are kinda murky.
 
Evidence wise? No.
Personally I think it's more so implied Kris has/had a onesided crush on Noelle, based off the way he blushes when Noelle talks to Susie about him or his tard rage over us PROCEEDing with her.
It seems like Noelle mostly thinks Kris was weird and didn't like the way he always tried scaring her when they were younger. Although one can infer that her being into Susie because she likes the bullying shit (even making weird remarks about wanting to be on the receiving end of physical attacks) could point to her maybe also secretly liking Kris terrorizing her, too???
I think that she did value their closeness when they were young but as they got older he changed and they grew apart. Didn't stop her from downplaying their relationship to Susie, though..
Funnily enough, most of the time, it seems that when Kris was trying to scare her, he was basically just trying to distract her from feeling worse about something else?
At least that's the impression the Ferris Wheel gives me.
Also, a funny thing about Noelle is that she seems to actually like being scared. Like, she enjoys scary movies even though they scare her, she enjoys creepy glitches in games, that sorta shit.
So odds are, she actually liked it when Kris scared her. (I mean FFS, half the reason she's attracted to Susie is because Susie is scary!)
 
Also, a funny thing about Noelle is that she seems to actually like being scared. Like, she enjoys scary movies even though they scare her, she enjoys creepy glitches in games, that sorta shit.
So odds are, she actually liked it when Kris scared her. (I mean FFS, half the reason she's attracted to Susie is because Susie is scary!)
1193488875603694.jpg
 
3. Her blog, despite it being outside of the game, is way more romantic than anything she ever said or wrote about Susie. https://deltarune.com/kris_dreemurr_kris/
Hey, I just realized something.
Even then, with my eyes open, there were times when I wasn't even sure if we were friends.

But when I closed my eyes,

it felt like a concert just for me.
The last song in Chapter 4’s soundtrack is the single off-key note from when you try to play the piano, and it’s called “Concert for you”.
 
Tbh. Placing mew mew between Jevil and Spamton, while making Gerson the last secret boss, would've reduce the letdown she was.

Shifting the events of ch 5 between 2 and 3 would overall fix some problems:
- Have Kris, Susie and Noelle go to the festival together.
- Expand upon long running friendship between Kris and Noelle, by having Noelle tell Sussie about events from past festivals.
- Replace forced puppy love between Susie and Noelle with them simply getting to know each other, like kids do when they make a new friend
- Add Berdly as a third wheel (provided the player didn't choose to turn him into Kris's Frozen Chicken), constantly popping up, trying to impress Susie or Noelle. Add a joke route where you spend the festival with Berdly instead.
- Noelle is still called away due to some emergency, so Kris and Susie are go to check Asgore and find a dark would already there
- Instead of Japanese theme, Asgore's dark world is a garden with a gothic castle on the hill
- Remove the knight from the chapter entirely, until the reveal in Tenna's chapter
- Asgore still pushes kids out of the Dark world, but he elaborates that it's dangerous and he doesn't want Susie or Kris to get hurt.
- In the end, Kris seals the fountain. Everything goes back to normal and Asgore asks the kids to keep the existence dark worlds a secret.
- While events of church chapter go unchanged, have Asgore to capture the Knight trying to escape the church and end up being carried away.

Chapter 5, in its current state, is simply a waste.
A lot would have to done in the last two chapters to recover from this letdown.
Honestly, one thing that would've fixed ch5 for me regardless of it's position in the story is having Asgore be the one who made the fountain instead of Kris. Have the latter be ready to sneak into the flower shop after tossing the soul in the trash. only for them to be surprised to see a dark fountain already opening. It would've tied in nicely to him investigating the dark worlds and the Japanese-theming would've made a lot more sense if he's been consuming all of the weebshit that Alphys gave him.
 
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