Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Post Reply]

Like some kind of... digital circus? That sounds amazing!

 

[Midwit]

Wait, really? I always assumed that Defiant was more in the weight range of a Fletcher or Tribal class.

366,000 Tonnes according to the Technical Manual. I've been messing about with Gemini for determining ship tonnage based on listed size and it decided to make the Defiant a marginally more reasonable 94,000 tonnes, which I find reasonable considering the width of the thing, it being heavily armoured and comparatively dense it is compared to other Starfleet ships. AI logic also puts it as being heavier than a Miranda, which is hilarious.

I'm pretty sure the closest you get to a WW2 Destroyer is a Maquis Raider, even a B'rel or a Hideki are closer in mass to a CL than a DD.

 

[Flexo]

Data in that particular episode: was acting on orders to keep the colonists from being turned into alien asphalt or liquid coolant for an alien corporate entity (the Federation probably could and should wipe out but won't because politicians are malicious retards and will never do what makes the most sense).

If anything, the Iran "war" has pretty much showed that's the most realistic aspect ever of Star Trek.

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Oh wow. I know everybody has been making "digital circus is just 'i have no mouth...' for kids" but it really is an adaption of the Voyager Clown episode isn't it...

 

[Phillip Green]

366,000 Tonnes according to the Technical Manual. I've been messing about with Gemini for determining ship tonnage based on listed size and it decided to make the Defiant a marginally more reasonable 94,000 tonnes, which I find reasonable considering the width of the thing, it being heavily armoured and comparatively dense it is compared to other Starfleet ships. AI logic also puts it as being heavier than a Miranda, which is hilarious.

I'm pretty sure the closest you get to a WW2 Destroyer is a Maquis Raider, even a B'rel or a Hideki are closer in mass to a CL than a DD.

The DS9 TM couldn't even get simple lengths for well established ships like the K't'inga right, so good luck with mass details.

I suppose it's possible things like the warp coils and future hull materials are supposed to be super massive, but I've never seen a Trek publication, official or fanon, that had mass values that came anywhere close to making sense, so I'm more inclined to support head-canon values like what you've come up with.

Your value does seem a lot more reasonable. Although I'd note that the latest USN Ford class supercarrier is roughly 300m long and weighs in at ~100,000 tonnes for comparison, so the defiant would still be dense for it's size, even if you go with some of it's larger size estimates.

 

[Dragged Into Sunlight]

Author, Author is a great example of why treating the EMH as a living being is retarded and would cause massive problems in the ST universe.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Author, Author is a great example of why treating the EMH as a living being is retarded and would cause massive problems in the ST universe.

Janeway gives him all this unprecedented autonomy “fine, you’re a real person now, go live your life,” and he's still in her ready room every week going “I need more privileges!”





Every time they do an episode that’s just about him messing with his own subroutines so he can become a celebrity or whatever, it ends in complete disaster.

 

[BubbaRobot887]

Janeway gives him all this unprecedented autonomy “fine, you’re a real person now, go live your life,” and he's still in her ready room every week going “I need more privileges!”

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Every time they do an episode that’s just about him messing with his own code so he can become a celebrity or whatever, it ends in complete disaster.

Are you talking about The Doctor or Robert Picardo?

 

[Clown College 2nd Year]

Probably staged but still gave me a good laugh. Hope your all's weekend was good. I didn't watch much Star Trek though.

0:10

 

[Sweeter and Savoury]

Wait, really? I always assumed that Defiant was more in the weight range of a Fletcher or Tribal class.

I'm OK with super heavy star-ships

We know the Federation has mastered both gravity manipulation and inertia. In fact this makes super heavy weight ships make more sense. Just think how much punishment ship take in Star Trek.

A single photon torpedo release something like 64.4 megatons of TNT equivalent upon impact. And remember how often the Big E gets hit by one with it's shields down. Somehow the ship doesn't just vanish into a ball of super heated plasma but all it does it shake the ship a bit or blow a small'ish hole in the hull. Depending on plot needs. In fact it makes more sense, if a ship was so light weight whenever it takes a hit on the shields it should rocket away in the opposite direction due to the explosion exerting force. But no, it just sits there like some sort of...vessel...floating on some kind of...liquid.

To get a material that could take that kind of punishment without just disintegrating would require extreme density. And then we can get into shit like "neutronium armor" which would weigh fantastically massive amounts (1cm squared, about the size of a standard sugar cube, of neutron star matter has a mass of approximately 400 billion kilograms). But none of that shit makes any difference in space as far as gravity goes and with "inertia dampeners" you can laugh off any kind of mass problems. I know trying to use real world physics on a TV show is not great but if you work it out the techno babble makes anything possible. Even a smaller ship massing in thousands of tonnes.

 

[Mussolini’s Merkin]

I'm OK with super heavy star-ships

We know the Federation has mastered both gravity manipulation and inertia. In fact this makes super heavy weight ships make more sense. Just think how much punishment ship take in Star Trek.

A single photon torpedo release something like 64.4 megatons of TNT equivalent upon impact. And remember how often the Big E gets hit by one with it's shields down. Somehow the ship doesn't just vanish into a ball of super heated plasma but all it does it shake the ship a bit or blow a small'ish hole in the hull. Depending on plot needs. In fact it makes more sense, if a ship was so light weight whenever it takes a hit on the shields it should rocket away in the opposite direction due to the explosion exerting force. But no, it just sits there like some sort of...vessel...floating on some kind of...liquid.

To get a material that could take that kind of punishment without just disintegrating would require extreme density. And then we can get into shit like "neutronium armor" which would weigh fantastically massive amounts (1cm squared, about the size of a standard sugar cube, of neutron star matter has a mass of approximately 400 billion kilograms). But none of that shit makes any difference in space as far as gravity goes and with "inertia dampeners" you can laugh off any kind of mass problems. I know trying to use real world physics on a TV show is not great but if you work it out the techno babble makes anything possible. Even a smaller ship massing in thousands of tonnes.

I suppose that in my brain I just always assumed that Star Fleet was using 'space age alloys' in the same way that you hear 'space age polymers' to keep the weight down.
However this whole idea is predicated on the notion that weight actually matters when in actuality they're building this stuff in orbit and designing it to fly and operation in 0g.
Just falls apart slightly when some of these vessels enter atmo and they should either plummet instantly or just rip apart entirely.

 

[Curzon Dax-sama]

Wait, really? I always assumed that Defiant was more in the weight range of a Fletcher or Tribal class.

Given the ludicrous amounts of dV Trek-ships have, I'm surprised they're not heavier. Like, the fuel requirements to keep changing velocities, thrust, direction and whatnot are insanely huge.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

Cybermen and Borg hybrid: Cyborg?



(there's this one crossover comic with Borg and Cybermen)

 

[Captain Syrup]

Cybermen and Borg hybrid: Cyborg?



(there's this one crossover comic with Borg and Cybermen).

I am so done with these Doctor Who crossovers. I want every single Voyager alien that was obviously ripping somebody off to actually meet the alien they stole from.



“I was making planets unlivable when your grandfather was still a twinkle in some miner’s ball sack.”

 

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

Janeway gives him all this unprecedented autonomy “fine, you’re a real person now, go live your life,” and he's still in her ready room every week going “I need more privileges!”

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Every time they do an episode that’s just about him messing with his own subroutines so he can become a celebrity or whatever, it ends in complete disaster.

Here's something I thought of recently. Would the Doctor trying to live his own life count as identity theft? Afterall, he's got the same face as Lewis Zimmerman, and would probably complicate things.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

All I know is I wanted to see more warships. War: it's fantastic!

 

[Curzon Dax-sama]

All I know is I wanted to see more warships. War: it's fantastic!

Yes. Yes, it is.

Especially in space. You know, the Borg and the Dominion are such great, terrifying enemies because there wasn't initially a single fucking attempt to humanize them in any way. There was a moral clarity that immediately clicked: those bastards want to take our shit, burn our worlds, rape our women, troon out our children and laugh about it while they're doing all that shit, and more.

That is why old Trek is based, regardless of the shitlib talking points coming up throughout. This, THIS, right there, Starfleet ships shooting at motherfucking Borg cubes and offering zero complicated ideologically based explanation as to why that's necessary - that is why old Trek is great. That is why war against incomprehensible existential terror is great. It's the right thing to do. Stopping, killing and pushing them back was a moral imperative on par with timeless religious command of the old days: do it or die.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

To be fair, even the Dominion virus thing in DS9 was morally justifiable. The only reason Bashir cared was because Odo was patient zero and dying from it.

 

[Curzon Dax-sama]

To be fair, even the Dominion virus thing in DS9 was morally justifiable. The only reason Bashir cared was because Odo was patient zero and dying from it.

In principle, I do agree. The Dominion should have been put into its place. They should have been made to suffer the consequences of taking their paranoid totalitarian shit to the "libertarian space hippy"-part of the galaxy. The target was wrong. They should have removed the Jem'hadar addiction to the White. The civil war that sure as hell would have followed in the Dominion would have been one of epic proportions, and it would have killed billions. But you know... FAFO.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

In principle, I do agree. The Dominion should have been put into its place. They should have been made to suffer the consequences of taking their paranoid totalitarian shit to the "libertarian space hippy"-part of the galaxy. The target was wrong. They should have removed the Jem'hadar addiction to the White. The civil war that sure as hell would have followed in the Dominion would have been one of epic proportions, and it would have killed billions. But you know... FAFO.

I doubt that Bashir would have abandoned his research on the White.

 

[Captain Syrup]

timeless religious command of the old days

Here's something I thought of recently. Would the Doctor trying to live his own life count as identity theft? Afterall, he's got the same face as Lewis Zimmerman, and would probably complicate things.

Zimmerman is such a leper that he had nothing else to do with his life except let Starfleet scan his miserable head. He lives alone on Jupiter Station and the only person who’ll talk to him is Reg Barclay, who is basically the Pinky to his Brain (but with more gooning). Of course he signed his rights away.