Leaving Neverland - heehee

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MirnaMinkoff dijo:
While there are definitely crazy MJ pedo defense super friends there is also a very targeted campaign waged by his estate to defend his reputation online and has been for many years. They run god knows how many blogs refuting the pedo stuff. In the wake of this doco they have turned up their SM brigades to full blast.

I’d really be curious for people more tech savvy than me to take a look at the stats of the accounts swarming every comment about MJ. While I’m sure there are some legit crazy pants fans, most of the comments are repeating the same basic talking points over and over and seem to exist on SM solely to defend MJ.

I bet the estate is spending millions on this shit.
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If HBO is getting sued for $100 million for defamation, they better have some good stuff to back up these allegations, I hope the documentary featured MJ being filmed engaged in these sex acts or some other type of corroborative evidence the FBI was unable to find after 10 years of surveillance otherwise they are in a pickle.
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Medicated dijo:
If HBO is getting sued for $100 million for defamation, they better have some good stuff to back up these allegations, I hope the documentary featured MJ being filmed engaged in these sex acts or some other type of corroborative evidence the FBI was unable to find after 10 years of surveillance otherwise they are in a pickle.
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An unsourced letter from the guy’s attorney doesn’t really say much. Additionally the FBI was never investigating Jackson so of course it’s easy to declare such as though it means something. INTERPOL and the Secret Service weren’t investigating him either— he must be innocent!

The declaration that no kiddie porn was found in Jackson’s possession in a nice bit of legalese that is technically true, but not in fact accurate. (LINK probably NSFW)
 
OttoWest dijo:
An unsourced letter from the guy’s attorney doesn’t really say much. Additionally the FBI was never investigating Jackson so of course it’s easy to declare such as though it means something. INTERPOL and the Secret Service weren’t investigating him either— he must be innocent!

The declaration that no kiddie porn was found in Jackson’s possession in a nice bit of legalese that is technically true, but not in fact accurate. (LINK probably NSFW)
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Okay it was the Police that was covering for 10 years. You got me.

The blog links to sources which are the same media outlets that the statement refers to. Plus of course, if such evidence was found, surely the jury would not have acquitted Jackson.

Basically what you are saying is that the media and the prosecutors, the police and everyone involved is a complete idiot, and only you after watching the documentary and finding this blog, have discovered the truth.

People v. Jackson (full title: 1133603: The People of the State of California v. Michael Joe Jackson) was a 2004–2005 criminal trial held in Santa Barbara County Superior Court in which American recording artist Michael Jackson was charged with molesting Gavin Arvizo, a 13-year-old boy. Jackson was indicted for four counts of molesting a minor, four counts of intoxicating a minor to molest him, one count of attempted child molestation, one count of conspiring to hold the boy and his family captive, and conspiring to commit extortion and child abduction. He pleaded not guilty to all counts. The trial spanned approximately 18 months, from Jackson's arraignment on January 16, 2004 to June 13, 2005. The jury delivered a verdict of not guilty on all charges, including four lesser misdemeanour counts.

In 2017, the documentary series The Jury Speaks (2017) covered the trial with four members of the jury.[43] Some reported receiving anonymous threats, and one said someone had loosened the wheels on her car.[43] All said they would acquit Jackson again, even in the wake of later allegations.[43] One juror said: "It was pretty obvious that there were ulterior motives on behalf of the family ... there wasn't a shred of evidence that was able to show us or give us any doubt in voting not guilty."[36]

In 2013, choreographer Wade Robson, who had testified in the trial that Jackson had not molested him, filed a $1.5 billion dollar civil lawsuit against Jackson's estate,[12] claiming Jackson had molested him over seven years when he was a child.[39] In May 2015, judge Mitchell Beckloff dismissed the lawsuit, saying Robson had waited too long to make it.[39]

In 2013, another man who had spent time with Jackson as a child, James Safechuck, filed suit with the same lawyer as Robson. Safechuck claimed he realized he had been abused when he heard Robson's allegations.[12] He alleged that he had been sexually abused by Jackson over 100 times in a four-year period, and had been "brainwashed" into believing the incidents were "acts of love".[53] The lawsuit was dismissed by a probate court in 2017.[12]

Robson and Safechuck's allegations are the focus of a 2019 documentary film, Leaving Neverland.[54]

How convenient.
 
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Oh no! You C+P’d (but didn’t link) to a Wikipedia article. That’ll... do absolutely nothing to enhance your argument.
:story:
 
Lol, medicated is the kind of people who are so re-tar-ded that they believe OJ never killed his wife only because the glove didn't fit in.

In the menatime, he is saying Spielberg and Tom Hanks are serial rapists on the deep thoughts thread. The guy believes Michael Pedoson is innocent but some random hollywood retired actor (serious, has Tom hanks done anything after Cast Away?) is in some deep conspiracy for fucking dozens of kids, without ANY evidence!

man, if you love Michael so much it's okay, I enjoy some of his work too but why would you suck a dick of a corpse? The motherfucker is dead! Thank god, One less kid diddler on the world.
 
Raging Capybara dijo:
man, if you love Michael so much it's okay, I enjoy some of his work too but why would you suck a dick of a corpse? The motherfucker is dead!
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By that same token, why would you spit on the guy's grave? I know what the accusers get from slandering Michael posthumously ($$$$$), but what about the rest of you? These aren't new accusations. They're not some dark secrets nobody knew about. This is the same bullshit stories people have been telling about Michael for decades. So what benefit do you get from it, except the jollies of joining in some mass virtue signal circle jerk?

This happens every time some "true crime" tv show is released. A bunch of spastics who know jack shit about what happened become overnight experts because a one-sided documentary presents them with just enough information to make their pea brains feel informed. Its always the same behavior. First, they start jerking off each other with theories about 'what really happened'. Then these cum soaked morons go online and shout down anyone who points out evidence contradicting their narrative because they're too stupid to realize they were emotionally manipulated by a bunch of cynical hollywood producers. Finally, they pretend like they're the only ones smart enough to have figured it out, which feeds into their delusions of intelligence and primes them for the next manipulative "true crime" documentary.

I don't care about Michael Jackson. He's dead. But I do care about a bunch of preening idiots who are pretending to be offended and angry because they watched a fucking documentary about him on HBO. Stop being so easily manipulated, you vain, weak-willed, preening, virtue-signalling fucks.
 
After watching both episodes I don't see how people could say they're making it up. You can see how haunted they still are by the sex abuse and their behavior in the interviews gives it away. I don't think that's acting there.

It's not virtue signalling to publicly talk about a child molester. FFS, guys. As for film evidence, most child abusers are smart enough to not film their crimes, especially a famous person like Michael Jackson. I've never gotten that defense.
He was dumb enough to leave creepy messages to the kids, though.
 
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Stab You in the Back dijo:
By that same token, why would you spit on the guy's grave? I know what the accusers get from slandering Michael posthumously ($$$$$), but what about the rest of you? These aren't new accusations. They're not some dark secrets nobody knew about. This is the same bullshit stories people have been telling about Michael for decades. So what benefit do you get from it, except the jollies of joining in some mass virtue signal circle jerk?

This happens every time some "true crime" tv show is released. A bunch of spastics who know jack shit about what happened become overnight experts because a one-sided documentary presents them with just enough information to make their pea brains feel informed. Its always the same behavior. First, they start jerking off each other with theories about 'what really happened'. Then these cum soaked morons go online and shout down anyone who points out evidence contradicting their narrative because they're too stupid to realize they were emotionally manipulated by a bunch of cynical hollywood producers. Finally, they pretend like they're the only ones smart enough to have figured it out, which feeds into their delusions of intelligence and primes them for the next manipulative "true crime" documentary.

I don't care about Michael Jackson. He's dead. But I do care about a bunch of preening idiots who are pretending to be offended and angry because they watched a fucking documentary about him on HBO. Stop being so easily manipulated, you vain, weak-willed, preening, virtue-signalling fucks.
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That's a lot of text for someone who doesn't care about michael jackson.

Oh my god, people on the cyberbullying and doxing forum are talking about poor little michael jackson, who wasn't being accused of being a pedophile throughout his entire career and acting like a fucking weirdo. It's just this specific show that brought that up, out of nowhere.

There's a million threads about a million people I don't care about. You wouldn't know, because I don't post in those threads. Because I don't care.
 
Raging Capybara dijo:
Lol, medicated is the kind of people who are so re-tar-ded that they believe OJ never killed his wife only because the glove didn't fit in.

In the menatime, he is saying Spielberg and Tom Hanks are serial rapists on the deep thoughts thread. The guy believes Michael Pedoson is innocent but some random hollywood retired actor (serious, has Tom hanks done anything after Cast Away?) is in some deep conspiracy for fucking dozens of kids, without ANY evidence!

man, if you love Michael so much it's okay, I enjoy some of his work too but why would you suck a dick of a corpse? The motherfucker is dead! Thank god, One less kid diddler on the world.
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Okay, how is someone going to claim Steven Spielberg and Tom Hanks are guilty as child rapists with no evidence and then use a not guilty claim because of no evidence on Michael.?
What?
 
Medicated dijo:
If HBO is getting sued for $100 million for defamation, they better have some good stuff to back up these allegations, I hope the documentary featured MJ being filmed engaged in these sex acts or some other type of corroborative evidence the FBI was unable to find after 10 years of surveillance otherwise they are in a pickle.
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Haha, it’s good to see an actual member of the MJ super-fan pedo defense force show up in the thread.

Watch the documentary and get back to us please. These weirdos never watch anything critical of MJ they are like Scientologists in that respect.

The lawsuit from HBO will go nowhere, it’s all bluster from the estate. They aren’t even suing over anything in the doco being false they are suing because they claim a contact HBO signed to broadcast some MJ special back in the 1990s has a clause that HBO can never, ever say anything bad about MJ for all eternity.

They aren’t suing for libel or because anything in the doco is untrue, because they know it’s not. They like to bluster in the media the case is about the allegations being false but they didn’t file a lawsuit to dispute the facts in the lawsuit, only HBOs ability to air it.

HBO has no worries in this case. They cleared this doco through an army of lawyers long ago.
 
I'm not one of those "Listen and Believe" types and I always believe in separating art from the artist...but I still am inclined to believe that yes. Michael Jackson is guilty and these guys are telling the truth.

I just started watching the first part of Leaving Neverland on HBO On Demand just now, and I've got to admit that in 2004-2005 when the second trial was going on, everyone was convinced that Michael Jackson was guilty.

Heck, when I was a kid in the mid-2000's, my classmates and I loved to crack jokes about Michael Jackson being a creep (think jokes like "What does Michael Jackson call a school bus? Meals On Wheels!" or "Why did Michael Jackson go to Wal-Mart? To get boy's clothes half-off!")

However, by the time I was in high school in 2009-2010, Michael Jackson died and all of a sudden he became a saint who was falsely accused and the court of public opinion literally changed overnight as if someone just flipped a light switch or something. That was odd.

All of a sudden, classmates who weren't old enough to remember Jackson's heyday were fans of him.

Honestly, when I was a kid and even into my teen years, Michael Jackson was a freak show and a laughing stock and the only time you'd hear his music being played on the radio or at parties would be around Halloween and they'd play "Thriller" along with other campy Halloween hits like "The Monster Mash", The X-Files theme song, and songs from Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Other than playing Thriller around Halloween, nobody cared about Michael Jackson's music in the late 90's or 2000's. He wasn't seen as the King of Pop, he was seen as the creepy plastic white woman who had a Ferris Wheel in the backyard and drank Jesus Juice.

But then the moment he died and couldn't do anything to damage his reputation any further, he became a beloved nostalgia icon again and people who never listened to his music outside of hearing Thriller on the radio in October before 2009 all of a sudden became fans of him and defended him.

Makes you wonder just how much the Jackson estate went out of their way to salvage his very profitable legacy. The fact that he was wealthy enough to beat being convicted in court and the family of one of his accusers had a history of harassing celebrities prior to the accusations further helped the Jackson Family rebuild his credibility the moment he died.

However, given these newest accusations, I am now pretty sure he is guilty.

There's also the fact that Michael Jackson is not only dead (so there's no way to really de-platform him or extort him further) and there's nothing to gain from accusing him given that the Jackson Estate is very wealthy, powerful, and litigious. Unlike Harvey Weinstein, who was wealthy and powerful but also secretly detested by most Hollywood directors and actors, there's not even a personal gain from coming forward now. (And yes, I think Weinstein is guilty too)

Also, unlike most of the usual #MeToo targets, Michael Jackson was a black entertainer who was actually kind of loved and defended by the greater black community (unlike Bill Cosby) and not an evil straight white male like Brett Kavanaugh or the guy who voiced Edward Elric lends further credence to these allegations and with that combined with some of these harrowing detailed testimonies from former victims and comments from guys like Howard Stern, I am inclined to believe that yes, Jackson is guilty and this is not just some #MeToo bullshit.

TL;DR-Michael Jackson is one guilty motherfucker, he probably has a lot more victims hiding than even Weinstein does, and I always liked Prince better anyway.
 
I remember when skits like this were popular:


After his death there'd be comments saying how unfair the sketch was and how offensive it was. Yes, there was a definite change after that.
 
Some perspective I thought I might add. I think I'm around James Safechuck's age, given his references to Voltron.
I think we were very naive in the 80s about a lot of things.

First of all, Michael Jackson was NOT perceived to be a pedophile until he was accused by Jordan Chandler in the mid 90s. He certainly was considered to be weird. There was gossip about his plastic surgery, behavior, and rumors about him being a homosexual. The schoolyard rhyme was "I pledge allegiance to the flag, Michael Jackson is a fag. Pepsi Cola burned him up, now he's drinking 7-Up."

There was also a very rudimentary understanding of what a pedophile was and how they operated. I don't even think that word was even in the common vernacular. We kids were only taught to beware of strangers in cars. People in the 80s seemed to only think child molesters were only ugly creepers in vans or satanic daycare operators. I think many people at the time wouldn't be able to handle the concept that a celebrity could be a child molester. Just think about it. All those years he openly had those boy "traveling companions" and the tabloids didn't connect the dots.

I'm not excusing what the parents did, just trying to add some context.
 
Syaoran Li dijo:
I'm not one of those "Listen and Believe" types and I always believe in separating art from the artist...but I still am inclined to believe that yes. Michael Jackson is guilty and these guys are telling the truth.

I just started watching the first part of Leaving Neverland on HBO On Demand just now, and I've got to admit that in 2004-2005 when the second trial was going on, everyone was convinced that Michael Jackson was guilty.

Heck, when I was a kid in the mid-2000's, my classmates and I loved to crack jokes about Michael Jackson being a creep (think jokes like "What does Michael Jackson call a school bus? Meals On Wheels!" or "Why did Michael Jackson go to Wal-Mart? To get boy's clothes half-off!")

However, by the time I was in high school in 2009-2010, Michael Jackson died and all of a sudden he became a saint who was falsely accused and the court of public opinion literally changed overnight as if someone just flipped a light switch or something. That was odd.

All of a sudden, classmates who weren't old enough to remember Jackson's heyday were fans of him.

Honestly, when I was a kid and even into my teen years, Michael Jackson was a freak show and a laughing stock and the only time you'd hear his music being played on the radio or at parties would be around Halloween and they'd play "Thriller" along with other campy Halloween hits like "The Monster Mash", The X-Files theme song, and songs from Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Other than playing Thriller around Halloween, nobody cared about Michael Jackson's music in the late 90's or 2000's. He wasn't seen as the King of Pop, he was seen as the creepy plastic white woman who had a Ferris Wheel in the backyard and drank Jesus Juice.

But then the moment he died and couldn't do anything to damage his reputation any further, he became a beloved nostalgia icon again and people who never listened to his music outside of hearing Thriller on the radio in October before 2009 all of a sudden became fans of him and defended him.

Makes you wonder just how much the Jackson estate went out of their way to salvage his very profitable legacy. The fact that he was wealthy enough to beat being convicted in court and the family of one of his accusers had a history of harassing celebrities prior to the accusations further helped the Jackson Family rebuild his credibility the moment he died.

However, given these newest accusations, I am now pretty sure he is guilty.

There's also the fact that Michael Jackson is not only dead (so there's no way to really de-platform him or extort him further) and there's nothing to gain from accusing him given that the Jackson Estate is very wealthy, powerful, and litigious. Unlike Harvey Weinstein, who was wealthy and powerful but also secretly detested by most Hollywood directors and actors, there's not even a personal gain from coming forward now. (And yes, I think Weinstein is guilty too)

Also, unlike most of the usual #MeToo targets, Michael Jackson was a black entertainer who was actually kind of loved and defended by the greater black community (unlike Bill Cosby) and not an evil straight white male like Brett Kavanaugh or the guy who voiced Edward Elric lends further credence to these allegations and with that combined with some of these harrowing detailed testimonies from former victims and comments from guys like Howard Stern, I am inclined to believe that yes, Jackson is guilty and this is not just some #MeToo bullshit.

TL;DR-Michael Jackson is one guilty motherfucker, he probably has a lot more victims hiding than even Weinstein does, and I always liked Prince better anyway.
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You are correct at your recollections. MJ’s career was DOA in the USA. MJ from 1995 to 2005 was a joke and viewed as a pedo creep by the majority of Americans. He fled to and lived in the Middle East after the criminal trial for a reason. His career was almost ruined by the 1993 settlement and that's when everyone started making jokes about him and his music became an afterthought. His career was damaged, but not totally destroyed until the criminal trial. The criminal trial, regardless of its verdict, cemented MJ in the American public's mind as walking melted face freak show who raped little boys.

I remember being shocked when the O2 concerts were announced because I didn't think MJ could still pull in huge audiences. He would have played to half-empty stadiums if he attempted a major USA tour - and this is confirmed by the fact that he couldn't get funders to back a tour in the USA for more than a decade. MJ was bankrupt and desperate for money by 2008, if he didn't pull off the O2 concerts he was totally fucked. He already had some bizarre manager controlling a lot of his finances, a "Dr" Tohme Tohme because he had entered into a bizarre agreement to save Neverland from foreclosure. Tohme secured a loan that prevented foreclosure but gave him an ownership stake in Michael's crumbling empire.

MJ's death is an interesting study in how once an artist is dead how business managers can salvage a valuable brand. It's been done for dead painters for decades now, but the same thing is now being done for musicians and celebrities. It was obvious the businessmen saw MJ as asset that could be used and licensed much like Elvis or M. Monroe, but they need to be dead first.

Once MJ was dead and couldn't rape anymore boys or go around scaring the shit out of people with his melted clown face and bizarre antics the business people could turn dead Michael and his music back into a money printing machine. They have waged a epic PR and social media blitz in the past ten years. I'm dead curious how much they do pay for the endless blogs defending MJ. Sure some of the blogs are obviously done by crazy fans, but many other are so perfectly laid out and with endless legal citations and documents that's its very obviously the work of a well paid PR team and lawyers. They try to give the impression that they are just random bloggers who want the "truth" but I worked in the industry and most of these blogs are the work of professional reputation management companies - they also NEVER reveal who they are or explain why they have a in-depth, professional laid out and edited, 600 page website about how Michael is totally not a pedo.

I actually started this thread not so much to be about Michael being a serial pederast (it still amazes me any one has even a drop of doubt about that) or the documentary itself but how his estate is trying to manipulate SM and public opinion in the wake of the documentary. In the past you would have seen a PR blitz on TV, and they are certainly do the rounds on the media, but the use of SM now to try and sway public opinion fascinates me. I don't know anyone personally who doesn't think he was a pedo, but if you go on SM anyone that mentions the documentary is quickly swarmed by defenders. I actually did a few tests posting from a random twitter with a hashtag and it was almost instant how many rando accounts suddenly jumped on it with the standard talking points - almost always defaming Wade or James as doing this for money.

The claims of accusers only wanting money seems to be the main the defense estate is using because in the end that's what Michael Jackson is all about to them - money - billions of dollars in fact. There are a number of businessmen managing the Jackson estate right now who have a very big vested interest in protecting a child rapist and smearing the kids he raped because doing so will keep them very rich. If Michael's brand is ruined by this documentary then their billion dollar asset is lost.

I find it interesting to watch very polished men in expensive suits, many with families and children of their own, have decided that the money is well worth defending a serial child rapist and even smearing the children he raped. I'd wonder how they sleep at night, but I know it's on very expensive sheets atop piles of money. It makes their accusations of MJ's victims being "in it for the money" extremely ironic and hypocritical. The people actually "in it for the money" are the people running the Jackson estate. The Jackson family, estate managers and lawyers would defend MJ if there was video of him raping and cannibalizing a dozen naked ten year olds.
 
What's unfortunate is I don't think it's possible to pin him. Sure, they managed to get Jimmy Savile, but when he was uncovered to be a predator, it happened shortly after his death, around 2 years. MJ has been dead for around ten years now, and the attempts that were made when he was alive fell flat. It just makes me all the happier that they managed to catch Bill Cosby before his approaching death. With the combination of his musical talent, sympathy from his abused childhood, botched court cases, and death, there is always gonna be someone saying Michael Jackson dindu.
 
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