General Wrestling Discussion

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Xavier Renegade Angel dijo:
Damn bret was right bisch didn't have a clue
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Yeah WCW has too many blunders to list but their handling of Bret Hart is among the biggest if you ask me. So much money left on the table. After the finish of Hogan/Sting, they should've immediately started a slow build to Hogan v Bret, the match WWF never got. It's crazy it took Vince Russo coming to WCW for Bret to get a push
 
muffdiver dijo:
Cena was never about "what the fans wanted".....he was boo'd for half of his run & he had the most boring run until The Rock stuff, after The Rock when they stopped mega-pushing him & started putting him in the undercards, gave him the US title, he started feuding with new younger talent, then the "other half" of the audience started to appreciate him more. But don't pretend WWE fans weren't booing this man for a decade of his career, from like 2007-2014 this man was the most hated man in WWE. There's a reason why Punk's (then Bryan's) ascension to the main event was such a big deal because everyone was so tired of guys like Cena (and to a lesser extent Orton & HHH) being the only real main eventers for YEARS
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Good summary of Cena's run.

I can't stress enough that the IWC (hate that term) from that era never hated Cena, we just wanted better writing for him other than "destroy the roster, win belt". and it took years until we got that. The general consensus before was that Cena was refreshing. "Word Life" wigger Cena was fun and that was the guy we wanted to see. Vince took a liking to him and changed nearly everything we loved about the guy and just made him a generic good guy.

Cena's run is an unfortunate achievement in that he is the first successful WWE-only guy. A realization of everything Vince envisioned - A guy 100% born and bred in the WWE system to serve only the WWE system. No mystery, no surprise, just one style, one setting his entire run as sterile and manufactured as possible. You could argue The Rock to a lesser extent, but if Rock hadn't come in the late 90s in an era where Vince was desperate and throwing things at the wall, he wouldn't have became "The Rock".

Hogan, Flair, Austin, Foley went other places, and added to their character and body of work and that's a lot of why they became so much more beloved. Cena's entire legacy feels manufactured with no opprotunity to grow and become more than what he was. We never got Cena in NJPW or AAA, we never got Indie-Cena. A hugh missed opprotunity for Cena and ultimately, the fans.

This is why Roman Reigns got such a violent reaction whenever it was made clear he was the next guy in line. As a wrestling fan, I want this system dead.
 
bret hart should double murder suicide goldberg and vinnie o mac yknowwhatiamsaying huehuehuehue

Jeff Dunham dijo:
This is why Roman Reigns got such a violent reaction whenever it was made clear he was the next guy in line. As a wrestling fan, I want this system dead.
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WHAT ABOUT THE KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDS
 
Xavier Renegade Angel dijo:
Gonna be funny when Gunther comes out to only piped in boos. Anytime otherwise its a library.
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Mhm.
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Jeff Dunham dijo:
As a wrestling fan, I want this system dead.
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Guess you’ll die.
 
I think people would have been more OK with Cena tapping if his final run didn't get fucked up by that colossal failure of a heel turn. If he just had a nostalgic super Cena run with the title in the fist half of the year, smashed a bunch of dudes, lost it back to Cody at Summerslam, and everything else about his run was the same, I don't think the tapout would have stung as much. People never got to have their feel good moment.
 
Never Scored dijo:
I think people would have been more OK with Cena tapping if his final run didn't get fucked up by that colossal failure of a heel turn. If he just had a nostalgic super Cena run with the title in the fist half of the year, smashed a bunch of dudes, lost it back to Cody at Summerslam, and everything else about his run was the same, I don't think the tapout would have stung as much. People never got to have their feel good moment.
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Yeah that's probably true, they tried to do the consolation prize with the IC title, which was a nice touch but it didn't make anyone forget his 17th title win. The failure of WrestleMania 41 really hurt his run so much, it's gotta be the worst thing of this year in any company. That was one match they needed to get right and they got it so wrong it's kinda baffling. They had a slow, boring match when this match had a ton of excitement & heat, Travis Scott, & a finish that made your top babyface look like a retarded pussy

Jeff Dunham dijo:
We never got Cena in NJPW or AAA, we never got Indie-Cena
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It's one reason why his match at ECW ONS vs RVD is so memorable, not just because RVD won but it's one of the only times Cena worked in a different environment (despite it being a WWE produced event).
 
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Jeff Dunham dijo:
we never got Indie-Cena.
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we did and it was totally forgettable
I posted some match with The Prototype on the California indies like, a year or two ago I think?
I forget when it was exactly but the near-Hollywood leads me to think it was around Son Of The Beach?
 
I know it would have made zero sense for business, but I'm now imagining Cena-Tanahashi doing a double retirement at WK20 because it would have been funny.

Also, as far a wrestlers having to lose on the way out, I think El Hijo de Santos retired yesterday as well, and he won. You could have absolutely had Cena in a tag team or a six man tag give someone the rub while still winning the match. Cena, Oba Femi, and another guy (maybe Evans) vs Imperium. Cena wins, croud goes home happy, Femi gets the rub. Easy.

 
muffdiver dijo:
I hope that's what happens. Gunther is likely now going to retire AJ Styles, Brock Lesnar, Chris Jericho, and whoever else is going out to pasture. Pretty unique character, idk if anyone has ever really been able to do this gimmick & be responsible for ending so many legendary wrestler's careers. Very interesting to see if they go this route with these other retiring wrestlers.
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Randy Orton did it 2 decades ago and did it way better.
 
Here are my thoughts after seeing Cena's final match and giving some time to digest it. I am in the camp of losing to Gunther. It seems that Gunther is being built as the guy who retiring stars face in their final match. He mentioned wanting to face Lesnar at some point and that could happen for WM. With Styles retiring next year and the rumor of Jericho getting a retirement tour from WWE, these are two other guys for Gunther to add to his resume (as @muffdiver brought up). This may all lead to Gunther going against the original Legend Killer, Randy Orton, if he begins calling himself by that moniker.

I personally would have liked the finish to have been different instead of Cena's smirking to the camera before tapping out (guys who were active in the business during the 80s such as Cornette and Mantel will likely take issue with it). Having Cena pass out and do the arm dropping three times would have been too similar to Goldberg's final match, but it could have kept Cena strong and have commentary put him over on how he never gave up. Perhaps it should have ended with Gunther hitting multiple clotheslines, multiple kicks, that powerslam finisher he used to do, and multiple powerbombs on Cena to pin him.
 
Kermit the Frog dijo:
I don't mind Cena losing, the finish was just flat as fuck. That weird ass smirk Cena did before calmly tapping out didn't sell the moment. Either be flailing all around trying to get out and furiously tap because you can't take it anymore OR don't give up and pass out. The latter would have been more fitting for Cena because even though he lost, Gunther can't say he made Cena give up like he said he was going to.
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Honestly it was just a stupid submission hold choice. It's a sleeper. It's suppose to put you to sleep. Gunther wanted to make Cena tap and hurt him. Why are you putting somebody to sleep when you want to hurt and humiliate?

Something like a Boston Crab would have made more sense. Cena could reach for the ropes, you could do that cool roll through boston crab later on and Cena could do the push up spot before he finally almost blacked out and did his pussy tap out.
 
I get having Gunther be the one to retire people, solely on account that he’s probably one of, if not the, least likely person on the roster to catastrophically fuck up and injure guys who’re various degrees of sawdusted.

Does he need it? Fuck No, but is he reliable enough to not fuck someone up, accidentally or otherwise, on their way out? Yes.
 
CyrusHowler dijo:
Bingo. Gunther is now the enemy of the WWE fanbase.
“I retired John Cena…And I did it by making him Tap Out.”
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Yeah that's the intention but I doubt Gunther is going to benefit much from the rub given the fan reaction. Unless they do some bullshit with making Triple H an on screen character (again) and have him siphon that heat off, this is gonna be 'Kidman beating Hogan' levels of rub, lol.

Cena was cooked when he let Brock found Suplex City on his ass. A fun nostalgic run for fans who grew up with him or a heel turn for fans who had been blueballed on it for eons (that maybe ends in a redemption storyline where he goes out a good guy...) were like the two options and WWE did neither.

It is funny as fuck that Cena's career ended with a bunch of internet smarks malding over the finish of one of his matches. Classic Cena.
 
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