Debate user The_Cowcel about incels.

[Friend of Dorothy Parker]

My faults are all things I can't do anything about, I spend as much if not more time trying to improve as those I envy and many of the things I'm a consistent failure at don't even matter, I'm a failure at everything from hobbies to a social life and nothing I've tried has ever changed that. Spending time thinking about how shit I am at everything and how much my life sucks won't solve anything. I seem to be going through the same motions as everyone else but without any success, even my observations on the world around me don't line up with what most other people describe, I seem to live in an entirely different world.

Please give 3 short examples of failing at a hobby.

...

And you can read and you can write; there are two hobbies for you that you can't fail. I will assume you can walk, so there's another one.

Am I just meant to somehow be outwardly interesting magically just by being more knowledgeable?

Not necessarily "knowledgeable"*; more informed, more engaged, more aware, more interested.

*no, rambling at length about something you think no one knows as much about as you do isn't the right approach, either.

international celebrity

Lol, no.

You seem to be underestimating the looks threshold to achieve success dating. I'm not a bad looking guy, I'm not over weight and I'm not particularly lacking in musculature either but that isn't enough to achieve success in the current year.

This is the type of reply that hollers trolling. But in for a penny, in for a pound, so NO, don't be ridiculous. Every single day I see & know physically average or below-average men with wives and girlfriends, as well as "presumably) single guys smiling, flirting with and chatting up women.

if I just walk around telling women to their face how much I want to fuck them I'll be treated as a nuisance at best and a criminal at worst(especially if I fuck up and unknowingly say it to a minor), whereas if I say and do nothing I'm ignored and seen as creepy.

I'm going to assume you're not as creepy as that sounds and are just suffering from a false dichotomy in your thinking.

Iow, these are not your only options. These are not even two good options.

Modern society forces extreme passivity on men, even here on the farms when I've discussed my views on how to keep a woman from leaving it's treated as abusive. I've basically just learned to shut up and tolerate being a doormat.

Not surprising if the way you expressed that was phrased as you did here or have alluded to at times otherwise, which were phrased in terms of control of another person, which is creepy because it is wrong and suggests a disordered understanding of one’s and others’ importance and placement.

It's odd the things you hold so dear. And odd you think your ideas about control have any validity whatsoever when 99% of your posts itt are about how you have zero success or opportunity with girls. ...and yet you know exactly how to handle them/ what is best for them.

I've been very kind and fair about both your actual problems and what you think are the problems in your life, but I am beginning to wonder if the bits of "uh oh" I've gotten even through the intertubes (and some deliberately pretty pink glasses) from comments here and there like this are much stronger in person and perhaps part of why things are hard.

I hope not, for everyone’s sake.

Assuming not,
Song for you:

Angst isn't new. That doesn't make it feel better, but just so you know.

And here's a meet cute with the same song, dorky or self-contained-seeming guy finds a cute but seemingly awkward girl. (No, have never seen the movie so idk)

 

[General Patton]

Sounds like there's no way to win, if I just walk around telling women to their face how much I want to fuck them I'll be treated as a nuisance at best and a criminal at worst(especially if I fuck up and unknowingly say it to a minor), whereas if I say and do nothing I'm ignored and seen as creepy.

Then stop being creepy.

 

[The_Cowcel]

Please give 3 short examples of failing at a hobby.

Being exceptionally bad at every game I play regardless of time invested, That alone is easily a half dozen examples if divided by genre. In terms of real life hobbies there's not much that I've put serious time into because everything is just so expensive, I can't trace to save my life. These aren't hobbies but I have never been able to keep up with the pace of note taking at school and whenever I've tried I always just end up with a third to half of the notes being complete, many of them being wrong and because I was so focused on writing notes I could never pay attention to the lecture so trying to take notes always left me behind in school, also I don't think I've driven more than a total of 20,000 miles but I've already hit four cars in that brief period of time. I'm just bad at everything so I hate trying.

Not necessarily "knowledgeable"*; more informed, more engaged, more aware, more interested.

*no, rambling at length about something you think no one knows as much about as you do isn't the right approach, either.

How is any of that meant to manifest? No matter how much I know I'll still be isolated.

This is the type of reply that hollers trolling. But in for a penny, in for a pound, so NO, don't be ridiculous. Every single day I see & know physically average or below-average men with wives and girlfriends, as well as "presumably) single guys smiling, flirting with and chatting up women.

Those guys probably had connections to set them up with a woman, I don't I have to rely on online dating.

I'm going to assume you're not as creepy as that sounds and are just suffering from a false dichotomy in your thinking.

Iow, these are not your only options. These are not even two good options.

My whole reason for approaching a woman is for sex and a relationship, I can either conceal my intent which is safer but you claim to be creepy and usually ends in a dead conversation or I can just be straightforward with my intent which is risky, but "genuine" and something I have never tried. You're telling me to be more straightforward with my intent so to me that sounds like admitting my sexual and romantic intentions. rather than trying to conceal them to get closer to her.

It's odd the things you hold so dear. And odd you think your ideas about control have any validity whatsoever when 99% of your posts itt are about how you have zero success or opportunity with girls. ...and yet you know exactly how to handle them/ what is best for them.

It's easy to take a more laisse-faire approach to relationships if you feel like you could get a replacement easily or at least eventually, but coming from my position where I've been obsessing over getting a relationship for half my life I think it makes sense to feel worried about woman leaving and all sources of dissent or lust which could turn her against me.

I've been very kind and fair about both your actual problems and what you think are the problems in your life, but I am beginning to wonder if the bits of "uh oh" I've gotten even through the intertubes (and some deliberately pretty pink glasses) from comments here and there like this are much stronger in person and perhaps part of why things are hard.

I can't imagine most women are left with any impression of me at all. I don't talk to them(or anyone), I make an effort not to stare at any one of them for an extended period of time and to only glance if they might see me. I just fear fucking up socially to the point of exile. My last extended face to face social interaction with a female peer was over seven years ago and I cant figure out how to make interactions continue on past the initial small talk.

And here's a meet cute with the same song, dorky or self-contained-seeming guy finds a cute but seemingly awkward girl. (No, have never seen the movie so idk)

I've heard this "meet cute" term in the past and I'm really not sure what it means. Is it just a term for a media piece where an incelish guy meets a cute girl?

Then stop being creepy.

I'm not? I don't even do anything most girls I see don't even know I exist.

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

I've heard this "meet cute" term in the past and I'm really not sure what it means. Is it just a term for a media piece where an incelish guy meets a cute girl?

It's a situation where two characters who will be romantically involved later meet each other in circumstances that are, well, cute.

 

[General Patton]

I'm not? I don't even do anything most girls I see don't even know I exist.

"We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas."

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

Not all of us were lucky enough to escape the push for medicalization of children unscathed. Congrats on picking yourself up by your bootstraps, tho.

LMAO, dude. That has nothing to do with being pathetic. Who you were only has impact on you now if you choose to let it. You clearly have. LMAO, muh panic attacks. Dude, grow a fucking pair of nuts. This is just sad and everyone knows it.

Am I just meant to somehow be outwardly interesting magically just by being more knowledgeable?

Yes, it's been working wonders for me.

He was basically an international celebrity when he had his first unpaid sexual encounter and even then it didn't last.

LMAOOOOO OH MY GOD MY SIDES. "I CAN'T GET LAID LIKE CHRIS CHAN BECAUSE HE WAS A CELEBRITY. HOLY SHIT MOFO. YOU ACTUALLY SAID THAT. WHAT A FUCKING RETARD. HOLY SHIT.....

I'm not a bad looking guy, I'm not over weight and I'm not particularly lacking in musculature either but that isn't enough to achieve success in the current year.

LMAO, neither is any of my other single friends but they do just fine. It's just you nigga.

Modern society forces extreme passivity on men, even here on the farms when I've discussed my views on how to keep a woman from leaving it's treated as abusive.

No you're just an autistic retard.

Sounds like there's no way to win

You're an autistic retard.

It took me a few reads of that for me to realize that you meant "serial killer, an abuser, a school shooter, or a creepy stalker" in a negative way as opposed to examples of types of men who are more sexually successful and desirable than me.

Holy fuck, my sides. You're killing me. Dude you are the most autistic incel on the Farms. You are pathetic and ineffective and ineffectual and you have no willpower to achieve anything better. You are as bad as Chris Chan. Maybe worse. Chris Chan can get laid.

I've heard this "meet cute" term in the past and I'm really not sure what it means. Is it just a term for a media piece where an incelish guy meets a cute girl

You're just autistic and retarded and boring.

 

[Friend of Dorothy Parker]

there's not much that I've put serious time into because everything is just so expensive,

Walking, talking, and writing are exceptionally cheap.

And as for note-taking, you're in school now - are the lectures recorded/ can't you record them? If so, you can re-listen after and pause/ restart to digest what was said. Sometimes you have to go the extra mile. It's for your own benefit so why would you not?

And aw on the driving. Were the scenarios similar each time?

How is any of that meant to manifest? No matter how much I know I'll still be isolated.

We're back to learning to like things for their own sake. It manifests when you take an interest in something. Say you take up tennis. You watch a lot, you get out and learn it and play some. Then you can carry a conversation about tennis bc you know a bit about it. You don't school or lecture people about it - you listen, you comment, they do the same. Voilà, a conversation.

And your second sentence is defeatist and self- fulfilling.

Those guys probably had connections to set them up with a woman, I don't I have to rely on online dating.

NOPE.

My whole reason for approaching a woman is for sex and a relationship, I can either conceal my intent which is safer but you claim to be creepy and usually ends in a dead conversation or I can just be straightforward with my intent which is risky, but "genuine" and something I have never tried. You're telling me to be more straightforward with my intent so to me that sounds like admitting my sexual and romantic intentions. rather than trying to conceal them to get closer to her.

You should be seeking to get to know a person and connect with them. If that is not of interest, then yes, you will sound creepy announcing you would like to sex them or have a relationship with avfemale sex unit.

It's easy to take a more laisse-faire approach to relationships if you feel like you could get a replacement easily or at least eventually, but coming from my position where I've been obsessing over getting a relationship for half my life I think it makes sense to feel worried about woman leaving and all sources of dissent or lust which could turn her against me.

This comment is not related to what I said. I commented on your belief you know the right way to be in a relationship while simultaneously being obsessed with the fact you haven't had one. You don't know what you're talking about, and someone in that position positing they do is a turn-off, and I mean that in both a sexual/ relationship way and just a general human appeal/ person people like to be around sort of way. It is very, very off-putting.
That aside, obsession = desperation = uncomfortable for other people.

I can't imagine most women are left with any impression of me at all. I don't talk to them(or anyone), I make an effort not to stare at any one of them for an extended period of time and to only glance if they might see me. I just fear fucking up socially to the point of exile. My last extended face to face social interaction with a female peer was over seven years ago and I cant figure out how to make interactions continue on past the initial small talk.

I am really sorry about this and really do feel bad for you - this is a very isolating situation to inhabit. So I understand why you've spun up theories about women if you've been drinking deep from the online spring of dysfunctional analyses by people in a similar situation. But I don't think absorbing those people's theories are doing you any favors.

I've heard this "meet cute" term in the past and I'm really not sure what it means. Is it just a term for a media piece where an incelish guy meets a cute girl?

It just generally refers to a cute story about people finding/ meeting each other that turns into something. Sometimes more about the cute actual meeting but I used it a little more broadly, probably.

I'm not? I don't even do anything most girls I see don't even know I exist.

But your thoughts about how to "manage" girls/ a relationship are kind of creepy, as you have described them and seem to believe.

 

[Butterschmalz]

. At some point you just have to figure out how to live with constant negativity.

no shit

 

[Mamimi]

Being aggressive and confident sounds like a quick way to be banned and/or have the police called on me. Modern society forces extreme passivity on men, even here on the farms when I've discussed my views on how to keep a woman from leaving it's treated as abusive. I've basically just learned to shut up and tolerate being a doormat.

You keep complaining about "accusations" of wanting to engage in abuse when you're describing textbook abusive behavior. Abuse isn't just beating the shit out of your girlfriend or calling her a bitch; it's usually much more insidious. Purposely isolating your partner from friends and family who you deem bad influences, economically disempowering her to make it harder to leave, and mistreating her because you think it'll make her less likely to cheat are abusive. It's referred to as coercive control.

Your incredulity at this being referred to as abusive tells me you are delusional and not self-aware, which is why I think you're off-putting to people around you (especially women) and you're just too much of a sperg to realize, despite your claims that you have no idea why foids give you a wide berth.

 

[General Patton]

And here's a meet cute with the same song, dorky or self-contained-seeming guy finds a cute but seemingly awkward girl. (No, have never seen the movie so idk)

They break up and he takes it badly. If an incel saw it, they'd blame Summer, even though the point of the film is that the problem is Joe Go's character, which even he has said in interviews.

Anyway, seriously man. It's not hard to talk to women.

 

[The_Cowcel]

Then stop being creepy.

Apparently my creepy behavior is a result of me trying to not by creepy by not spilling the spaghetti about how desperate and horny I am so I don't know how to not be creepy, all actions I take to try not to be instead work against me

It's a situation where two characters who will be romantically involved later meet each other in circumstances that are, well, cute.

huh, I always thought a "meet cute" was some sort of organized event I wasn't privy to.

Yes, it's been working wonders for me.

How is knowledge meant to help if I'm just sitting around while time passes? I've never been taught how to interact with women and my usual approach is one of complete passivity.

LMAOOOOO OH MY GOD MY SIDES. "I CAN'T GET LAID LIKE CHRIS CHAN BECAUSE HE WAS A CELEBRITY. HOLY SHIT MOFO. YOU ACTUALLY SAID THAT. WHAT A FUCKING RETARD. HOLY SHIT.....

Am I wrong? He was exposed to millions of girls and there was a fame incentive for having sex with him, I don't have any of that going for me. Pointing to Chrischan's sexual success is like pointing to the sexual success of Danny DeVito

LMAO, neither is any of my other single friends but they do just fine. It's just you nigga.

If they do fine then why are they single? Sounds to me like they aren't doing well at all.

You're just autistic and retarded and boring.

I know, but I don't see any way to be anything else.

We're back to learning to like things for their own sake. It manifests when you take an interest in something. Say you take up tennis. You watch a lot, you get out and learn it and play some. Then you can carry a conversation about tennis bc you know a bit about it. You don't school or lecture people about it - you listen, you comment, they do the same. Voilà, a conversation.

And your second sentence is defeatist and self- fulfilling.

Your scenario doesn't explain how I would get to the point of talking about tennis though. That's a very critical element and it's a step that I don't understand or have any point of reference for. If I got into tennis or any other sport I would at most be discussing it on a discord chat or something, nothing face to face.

You should be seeking to get to know a person and connect with them. If that is not of interest, then yes, you will sound creepy announcing you would like to sex them or have a relationship with avfemale sex unit.

I guess, but I don't really know how to do that, and I don't know how I would attempt to connect with a woman without seeming creepier than if I were to approach with direct sexual intent, there is so much messaging against sexual deception and the like that I'm left baffled on what I am even meant to do to get sexually close to a woman.

I am really sorry about this and really do feel bad for you - this is a very isolating situation to inhabit. So I understand why you've spun up theories about women if you've been drinking deep from the online spring of dysfunctional analyses by people in a similar situation. But I don't think absorbing those people's theories are doing you any favors.

IRL observation doesn't do anything to make me feel less hopeless, It's a struggle to even find female peers and I'm mortified of taking my chances with a girl anywhere that doesn't do ID verification for fear that she may be underage.

Anyway, seriously man. It's not hard to talk to women.

How is it not? It's a struggle to even find them and every interaction feels like it could send me to prison.

 

[General Patton]

How is it not? It's a struggle to even find them and every interaction feels like it could send me to prison.

You know what- all you do is complain and you do nothing to fix it. All of this is your fault. If you actually took all the advice instead of whining like a fag on the internet, maybe you'd accomplish something.

Because doing nothing sure has worked for you so far. You're making excuses and doing nothing to fix it.

Apparently my creepy behavior is a result of me trying to not by creepy by not spilling the spaghetti about how desperate and horny I am so I don't know how to not be creepy, all actions I take to try not to be instead work against me

....You're weird.

 

[The Last Stand]

Apparently my creepy behavior is a result of me trying to not by creepy by not spilling the spaghetti about how desperate and horny I am so I don't know how to not be creepy, all actions I take to try not to be instead work against me

Don't pursue women for lust? Don't write these pitiful dissertations on how your life sucks? Maybe take a shower and find meaningful shit to do for yourself to start.

 

[General Patton]

Don't pursue women for lust? Don't write these pitiful dissertations on how your life sucks? Maybe take a shower and find meaningful shit to do for yourself to start.

Seriously man. Why does this site attract so many of these rejects?

 

[The_Cowcel]

Don't pursue women for lust? Don't write these pitiful dissertations on how your life sucks? Maybe take a shower and find meaningful shit to do for yourself to start.

If I'm not pursuing women for lust then why would I even go out? Most of my actions and interactions with the outside world are motivated by the lustful desire to get a woman.

You know what- all you do is complain and you do nothing to fix it. All of this is your fault. If you actually took all the advice instead of whining like a fag on the internet, maybe you'd accomplish something.

Because doing nothing sure has worked for you so far. You're making excuses and doing nothing to fix it.

I am constantly working to improve my situation, things take time though and much of the advice I'm receiving is contradictory and lacking in nuance and specificity.

Seriously man. Why does this site attract so many of these rejects?

Because it's one of the only places we can laugh at those more pathetic than ourselves.

 

[General Patton]

I am constantly working to improve my situation, things take time though and much of the advice I'm receiving is contradictory and lacking in nuance and specificity.

You haven't done shit.

 

[𝕺𝖑' 𝕯𝖎𝖗𝖙𝖞 𝕱𝖆𝖙𝖘𝖔]

"Don't worry about having relationship right now", LOL. LMAO, when has that ever helped anybody? The guys who are obsessed with relationships will never listen to this advice because they already develop a fixation and complex with it. This will never help them. If anything, advice like this makes everything WORSE and, in my experience, does drive men to violent and psychosis behavior when they constantly hear this advice over and over. It's probably the worst you could ever give someone like this. Yeah, tell the guy who's life revolves X that X is bad for him. I'm sure he'll listen to you and anything you have to say afterwards. Fucking classic.

Don't tell alcoholics that they should go to rehab and get sober, they've already invested too much of their life into alcohol and telling them to stop drinking just makes them violent

Being exceptionally bad at every game I play regardless of time invested, That alone is easily a half dozen examples if divided by genre. In terms of real life hobbies there's not much that I've put serious time into because everything is just so expensive, I can't trace to save my life. These aren't hobbies but I have never been able to keep up with the pace of note taking at school and whenever I've tried I always just end up with a third to half of the notes being complete, many of them being wrong and because I was so focused on writing notes I could never pay attention to the lecture so trying to take notes always left me behind in school, also I don't think I've driven more than a total of 20,000 miles but I've already hit four cars in that brief period of time. I'm just bad at everything so I hate trying.

Man I'm starting to think a group home with a structured daily schedule of activities and limited internet access would suit you best

 

[General Patton]

By the way. No, the advice isn't bad. The advice is good, if OP bothered to actually take it and do it.

The guy should be lucky that anyone even gave advice considering he's still done nothing but complain.

Man I'm starting to think a group home with a structured daily schedule of activities and limited internet access would suit you best

Too autistic to live. That's why I keep saying that. These fuckers are too autistic to talk to people let alone figure out that their behavior is weird.

 

[The_Cowcel]

Don't tell alcoholics that they should go to rehab and get sober, they've already invested too much of their life into alcohol and telling them to stop drinking just makes them violent

Alcoholics are at least able to get what they want, I've never had even a small taste of what I've been striving for.

Man I'm starting to think a group home with a structured daily schedule of activities and limited internet access would suit you best

That sounds like hell. I think getting a woman would suit me best.

By the way. No, the advice isn't bad. The advice is good, if OP bothered to actually take it and do it.

The guy should be lucky that anyone even gave advice considering he's still done nothing but complain.

I am taking the advice to the best of my ability but it's such a struggle even getting to the point where any of it is actionable. I struggle to even find women to approach and even when I do I'm paralyzed by fear of the consequences for expressing my sexual intent.

Too autistic to live. That's why I keep saying that. These fuckers are too autistic to talk to people let alone figure out that their behavior is weird.

What behavior? I have almost no interactions with women.

 

[Goonbase Alpha]

I am constantly working to improve my situation, things take time though and much of the advice I'm receiving is contradictory and lacking in nuance and specificity.

Nigger I gave you the best advice you could ever receive for your situation, the only flaw is that you haven’t started doing it yet.