Western Animation - Discuss American, Canadian, and European cartoons here (or just bitch about wokeshit, I guess)

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A Grey Cat dijo:
Swaying away from making this a gorl tawk thread about menstruation in cartoons somewhat.


I think Pixars loss of nuance and allegory goes back to the first two Toy Story films.


The original toy storys conflict woody being replaced by buzz the new hot action figure that does way more than a simple pullstring cowboy doll can be taken so many ways. It's been compared to the decline of the western as the space race started (something toy story 2 flat out mentioned) the way new toys that do a lot more than old ones can take a child's time and energy, and even sibling rivalry when a new infant is born. But the original toy story never gets in your face about these themes and it's left it the viewer to decide what if anything buzz and woodys rivalry is allegorical too.



Along came toy story 2 which while still a master piece threw all subtile and nuance out the windows. Stinky Pete's line "once the astronauts went up children only wanted to play with space toys" Jessie's "you don't forget kids like Emily or Andy but they forget you." And especially "Andy's growing up and there's nothing you can do about it" are all spelled out for us.


This carried over into monsters Inc. With the scream shortage flat out called an "energy crisis" and water nooses' line "kids these days," and "the window of innocence is shrinking." Was funny enough Pixar having a "these darn kids and their rush to not be kids anymore." Whining moment and now we got another one in toy story 5.


So Pixar has to some extent ALWAYS been guilty of ditching allegory and nuance for blatant moral pushing...even in their golden age material.
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I would really like Pixar to make an actual traditionally animated movie for once, because their market value as "da 3d studio" was outdated about 20 years ago. After that they just became "da make your cry studio", which they did very well for a while. But nowadays it feels as if they have no momentum and only exist because they are marketable as an entity, which isn't unique in hollywood but is a depressing fate for such an iconic studio.

Tbh I wish indie studios like Glitch and Spindle weren't focusing so much on the young adult and teen audience, because kids are being fed pure garbage by Youtube and Netflix. Whatever the future holds, the big studio system doesn't work anymore. It's getting too expensive and elaborate and self celebrating to attract a younger generation. But by that same token the younger generation doesn't have the disposable income to support indie studios like older people can. So the stuff their parents are showing them isn't for them, and the stuff indie studios are making is not catering to them by design.

This is a roundabout way of me seeing we need another person like Don Bluth to break out of the big studio system and make some real interesting stuff for kids, stuff that will stick with them like Brad Bird's stuff did.

If social media hadn't completely torn down the veil between the public and the creatives this would be an incredibly interesting time for animation, lads.
 
Wot Zit Too Yah0996 dijo:
It's insultingly amazing how different Teen Titans GO! is from the original series. Teen Titans, being an early-mid 2000s Cartoon Network show, even had implied, all but stated episodes around the themes of grooming (Raven), rape (Raven), abusive parents (Raven), workplace bullying (Beast Boy), child soldiers (Terra and Robin), dead parents (Cyborg), growing up with a bully for a sibling (Starfire), war (that Nuclear Russian Mutant), societal collapse (Nuclear Russian Mutant), racism (Starfire and Cyborg) etc....

Not to be a nostalgitard, and at the risk of seeming like I'm talking complete twaddle, but kids cartoons in recent years wouldn't dare address any of that... well, actually, no: they'd address prejudice, but in the annoying way we're all getting "used to".
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The episode that covers addiction (Cyborg gets a new chip that increases his processing) is such an underrated gem that it's even talked about much by some fans of the show.
 
The Nothingness dijo:
The episode that covers addiction (Cyborg gets a new chip that increases his processing) is such an underrated gem that it's even talked about much by some fans of the show.
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The Cyborg episode that freaked me out as a kid was the one where someone tried to turn him into a full-fledged machine.
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I didn't understand the full context when I first watched it, so I thought he was planning on covering him with robot parts he couldn't take off instead of replacing his organic parts.
Sergeant Major Buzzkill dijo:
Anybody here watched any of the classic Disney shorts? Like the Mickey, Donald, and Goofy ones. I’ve been thinking of them this morning. I remember Mr. Mouse Takes a Trip fondly. Am curious about other people’s thoughts.
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One I remember watching involved Donald trying to make pancakes with a radio recipe, he accidentally puts rubber cement into the mix, and after some slapstick, he storms over to beat the crap out of the person recording the radio broadcast.
 
I’ve been curious about Pluto’s Judgment Day. There’s a lot of cool, spooky imagery I like. One thing classic Disney always had going for it is the atmosphere. They know how to seriously commit to giving you an experience. I always bring up Maleficent’s dragon transformation while the prince battled her when making this point.

Just look at this. Just beautiful:
 

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Late but the hormonal cartoon talk reminded me of Animaniacs' short Katie Kaboom. They touched on teen girl's hormones in a humorous way. She would get upset, turn into a monster, explode (usually the house was destroyed), turn back into a human and apologize afterwards.
Sergeant Major Buzzkill dijo:
I’ve been curious about Pluto’s Judgment Day. There’s a lot of cool, spooky imagery I like. One thing classic Disney always had going for it is the atmosphere. They know how to seriously commit to giving you an experience. I always bring up Maleficent’s dragon transformation while the prince battled her when making this point.

Just look at this. Just beautiful:
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Sleeping Beauty was a childhood favorite and the scenes of fairy magic captivated me. I always wondered how they animated it. The dragon's fire and spindle magic spell were animated exquisitely too. Eyvind Earle's designs were chosen for Sleeping Beauty's look, which was often imitated in other Disney films later on.
 
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More toddler & me movie reviews.

Ferngully (1992): 6/10
Guys, if this takes place in Australia, why are the fairies white? Best part is Hexxus. Rest of it is blah. The climax doesn't feel drastic enough for how fast the leveller completely wrecks the rainforest. Toddler cried out, "Oh no, what happened?" at the trees getting cut down. Nothing really feels earned. The story does not portray time passing effectively and it confused me. Krysta lives in Australia but doesn't know what fire is?? If that is an Aussie rainforest fact it needed to be portrayed better. Krysta just seems stupid but I guess that makes her sexy or something. Overall feels like a rushed project, which I think is a quality of 2D animated films from the early 90s. Still has great lighting effects and nice bgs (pastel on black paper, I think). I got mad at the cassowaries (cool, murderous birds) being portrayed as doofy. If I was held at gunpoint, I'd have a hard time choosing between watching this or James Cameron's Avatar.

The Fox & the Hound (1981): 8/10
Man, I used to bawl at the scene where Widow abandons Todd on the wilderness preserve but now I just get pissed. Dumping a domesticated fox to fend in the wild... grr. Not much else to say. This is another one of those Disney films that's based on a book and it really feels like a book adaptation. Solid. Doesn't punch me in the gut like it used to. Perhaps I'm just old.

Cinderella (1950): 9/10
Itsa masterpiece. No notes. Unless you wanna get stuffy about Disney sanitizing folk tales. Not a 10/10 only bc I can't stand the pitch shifted voices for the mice. Daughter fell asleep to it so I might utilize its calming effect again.

The Princess and the Frog (2009): 7/10
It's alright. I like the American South setting and I like Tiana, Lottie, Facilier. I like the animation. But the story is sloppy. You can see they tried reeeeally hard to recapture that old Disney magic, but the pre/production process was a nightmare cuz you can't satisfy whiny black people. Tiana is a blank slate (which is worse than being a frog) after the 1st act. Many of her lines are forced despite her VA being decent like the script writers couldn't come up with things for her to say. She is much more interesting as a human and Facilier tempting her with her dream was cool. Still... makes me crave gumbo, grits, jambalaya, and beignets. (Not frog legs tho.) I need more animated movies set in the South. Would be a 7.5/10 if Oprah Winfrey wasn't in it.
 
Castoreum dijo:
Ferngully (1992): 6/10
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The big issue with Ferngully is that it's just way too 90s with its messaging and it really suffers for it since the entire movie serves the message rather than trying to just write a good story that happens to contain good lessons. It's peak 90s preachiness with very little actual charm and it's also peak Robin Williams making me want to deafen myself with an ice pick as well.
 
Castoreum dijo:
Toddler cried out, "Oh no, what happened?" at the trees getting cut down.
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Reminds me of when I saw Up in theaters as a kid, and my dad heard some little girl ask why Ellie was crying during the opening.
It was the part when she learned she was infertile.
Castoreum dijo:
Tiana is a blank slate (which is worse than being a frog) after the 1st act. Many of her lines are forced despite her VA being decent like the script writers couldn't come up with things for her to say. She is much more interesting as a human and Facilier tempting her with her dream was cool.
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I'd say part of the problem is that she doesn't really need to learn to be better the same way Naveen does. It's not like The Emperor's New Groove or Brother Bear where she's supposed to be unlikable and needs a slice of humble pie (get it?). She's kind, responsible, and hard-working, so why does she need to become a frog?
Fart100 dijo:
https://screenrant.com/lucasfilm-sa...dium=Social-Distribution&utm_source=Instagram

Looks like this could be happening. Found another reason to like Elijah Wood, a Sam and max tv show would be incredible.
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Wasn't there already a show in the 90s?
 
Sergeant Major Buzzkill dijo:
Anybody here watched any of the classic Disney shorts? Like the Mickey, Donald, and Goofy ones. I’ve been thinking of them this morning. I remember Mr. Mouse Takes a Trip fondly. Am curious about other people’s thoughts.
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The old school Donald Duck cartoons rival the Looney Tunes in sheer hilarity. Hard to pick a favorite Donald short, so here are 5 highly recommended ones:
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The best one with Huey, Duey, and Louie, imo. Tight pacing, and the fact that HD&L aren't the main instigators like they are a majority of the time makes this one stand out.
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Even if you don't understand the context of the time, it's still a great watch, with out-there visuals and characters.
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This one hits harder once you've started working at.... pretty much any job really.
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The second best HD&L short. The creativity on display that snowballs (heh-heh) from a simple altercation is really something to behold.
And finally....
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A surprisingly pretty dark yet heartfelt exploration of the relationship between Donald and Daisy.
 

New forgotten island trailer is out. The animation looks pretty good and the rest looks... uhhhh

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Imma be honest I thought they were just gonna be alone on that island with maybe a few non-talking creatures like a magical robinson crusoe situation and with the island itself being alive and keeping them there (like how in coraline the other world was just other mother and a bunch of stuff she made out of bugs), not that there would be a whole city of literal furfags and a regular villian who is basically a vampire (that eats unborn babies in its actual mythology but in the film just eats memories, I guess?).

When they said it would focus on the relationship between 2 friends I thought it would be their attempt at an emotional and more chill pixar-type film with it just being the 2 of them exploring and figuring stuff out most of the time (like with UP and WALL-E having the same type of isolation), but I guess a cringy furry boy making anime and family guy refrences tagging along it is. Having a bunch of side characters to lore dump on them there kills a lot of the wonder imo.
 
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SpiderBitch dijo:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=f7mFVeWnVLw
New forgotten island trailer is out. The animation looks pretty good and the rest looks... uhhhh

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Imma be honest I thought they were just gonna be alone on that island with maybe a few non-talking creatures like a magical robinson crusoe situation and with the island itself being alive and keeping them there (like how in coraline the other world was just other mother and a bunch of stuff she made out of bugs), not that there would be a whole city of literal furfags and a regular villian who is basically a vampire (that eats unborn babies in its actual mythology but in the film just eats memories, I guess?).

When they said it would focus on the relationship between 2 friends I thought it would be their attempt at an emotional and more chill pixar-type film with it just being the 2 of them exploring and figuring stuff out most of the time (like with UP and WALL-E having the same type of isolation), but I guess a cringy furry boy making anime and family guy refrences tagging along it is. Having a bunch of side characters to lore dump on them there kills a lot of the wonder imo.
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Reminds me of somebody from Bloody Roar or that Terry Bogard rabbit from Summer Wars
 
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