Western Animation - Discuss American, Canadian, and European cartoons here (or just bitch about wokeshit, I guess)

[A Grey Cat]

Swaying away from making this a gorl tawk thread about menstruation in cartoons somewhat.


I think Pixars loss of nuance and allegory goes back to the first two Toy Story films.


The original toy storys conflict woody being replaced by buzz the new hot action figure that does way more than a simple pullstring cowboy doll can be taken so many ways. It's been compared to the decline of the western as the space race started (something toy story 2 flat out mentioned) the way new toys that do a lot more than old ones can take a child's time and energy, and even sibling rivalry when a new infant is born. But the original toy story never gets in your face about these themes and it's left it the viewer to decide what if anything buzz and woodys rivalry is allegorical too.



Along came toy story 2 which while still a master piece threw all subtile and nuance out the windows. Stinky Pete's line "once the astronauts went up children only wanted to play with space toys" Jessie's "you don't forget kids like Emily or Andy but they forget you." And especially "Andy's growing up and there's nothing you can do about it" are all spelled out for us.


This carried over into monsters Inc. With the scream shortage flat out called an "energy crisis" and water nooses' line "kids these days," and "the window of innocence is shrinking." Was funny enough Pixar having a "these darn kids and their rush to not be kids anymore." Whining moment and now we got another one in toy story 5.


So Pixar has to some extent ALWAYS been guilty of ditching allegory and nuance for blatant moral pushing...even in their golden age material.

 

[Toxic BRAAAAP Mask]

Thanks for ruining pandas for me, feminist animators.

 

[SpiderBitch]

I think there’s a reason periods are never mentioned in cartoons for kids and teens, even in those with a full female cast, or with female main characters.

Even if we can safely assume teenage girls on cartoons do have them. Sure it might be in part because men writers just don’t think about them. But it’s just a topic that requires tact and maturity that most cartons for kids just can’t afford to. Not without feeling out of place that is.

Could Teen Titans Go make a serious episode about periods? I doubt it.

I would argue it’s also a topic preteen boys are just not ready for.

Unless it’s hidden under a heavy dose of metaphor, like Turning red, so it flies over boys and kids too immature to think about it, for the 15 years, and younger demographic, it’s best to let parents, and even schools (if they are not insane), to discuss it with the proper time, care, and tact it needs.

Just let kids have fun about their favorite cartoon girls being spies, witches or what have you.

Of course, if it’s a show for adults, like King of the Hill, or even kids in their late teens, you can have more leeway.

I think theres a middle ground where they can be mentioned to a reasonable degree without immediately having to explain what they are, what pads do, etc.

I remember seeing a few small mentions of periods, pads, etc in some national tween media and then later in health class going 'oh so thats what that is', If the concept of periods was just immediately thrown on me in full force without ever even having heard of it before I feel like I wouldve been pretty upset, thats too much information at once for learning you will get something that behaves like a chronic illness for the next 50 years... Learned the same way about the almost inevitable wisdom tooth surgery, knew its a thing from media but the why and how came later.

It does really depend on the tone of the show tho. I remember period mentions in as told by ginger and braceface, which are more grounded slice of life shows. Makes more sense there than 'moon girl and devil dinosaur'. In modern day media for younger teens seems to be dead tho, everything is either for kids or for adults :/ meanwhile adult media gets more immature while kids media gets some too mature things shoved in.

Its like kids go straight from steven universe to euphoria nowadays without something like total drama, degrasssi, glee or teen wolf in between. The only modern stuff I know thats actually for them is that 'to all the boys i loved before' spinoff and some anime like bnha...

 

[AbduluCthuluZulu]

Thanks for ruining pandas for me, feminist animators.

I still say the Mr. Enter 9/11 memes made Turning Red worth it.

 

[Edgeymcedgename]

I still say the Mr. Enter 9/11 memes made Turning Red worth it.

No

 

[SoleniyKraut]

I think there’s a reason periods are never mentioned in cartoons for kids and teens, even in those with a full female cast, or with female main characters.

Even if we can safely assume teenage girls on cartoons do have them. Sure it might be in part because men writers just don’t think about them. But it’s just a topic that requires tact and maturity that most cartons for kids just can’t afford to. Not without feeling out of place that is.

Could Teen Titans Go make a serious episode about periods? I doubt it.

I would argue it’s also a topic preteen boys are just not ready for.

Unless it’s hidden under a heavy dose of metaphor, like Turning red, so it flies over boys and kids too immature to think about it, for the 15 years, and younger demographic, it’s best to let parents, and even schools (if they are not insane), to discuss it with the proper time, care, and tact it needs.

Just let kids have fun about their favorite cartoon girls being spies, witches or what have you.

Of course, if it’s a show for adults, like King of the Hill, or even kids in their late teens, you can have more leeway.

There wouldn't be an episode of a modern cartoon about a boy's nightly emissions either.

It's considered bad tone to openly mention biological processes of this vain, and even less appropriate to tell children about them outside of an educational context. The audience (preteen boys that you mention) isn't at fault here. It's simply too uncomfortable to present to any group of children.

Turning Red is mentioned in bad faith because it's rather bland and doesn't deliver it's metaphor properly. It's hard to understand that transforming into a big, ferocious, red-furred animal is a metaphor for periods, because women aren't that formidable it's too abstract. Not because boys are "immature".

Those topics can be relegated to shows about the human body, which are aimed at children. I'd simply encourage children to read books, both educational and fictional, if it were up to me. Or you could just tell them that women have periods, my parents did an I didn't mentally collapse because of it.

And stop flooding the thread with girl talk, you all have a separate forum section for it.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

It's hard to understand that transforming into a big, ferocious, red-furred animal is a metaphor for periods.

It's essentially "I Was A Teenage Werewolf" for self-entitled women trying to laugh off PMS.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Crossposting from the Vivziepop thread.
https://x.com/DiscussingFilm/status/2069024657475318102

 

[McMitch]

I think theres a middle ground where they can be mentioned to a reasonable degree without immediately having to explain what they are, what pads do, etc.

The problem is media operate on a very strict conservation of detail. If you’re going to mention bathroom matters it needs to have some impact on the narrative which usually solidifies as a one-off joke (which would receive push back), a source of drama regarding the character in question (which would receive pushback), or a topic of discussion within the narrative (which runs counter to your suggestion). The issue with inclusive elements is they need to be inserted in a narrative vacuum, otherwise it opens the inclusion to criticism by the very people it is supposed to appease. These gaps in writing are incredibly noticeable and jarring even when the audience is unwilling/unable to articulate so.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

Crossposting from the Vivziepop thread.
https://x.com/DiscussingFilm/status/2069024657475318102Ver archivo adjunto 9177765

Tell me again about how Spindlehorse is totally an indie company?

 

[didelphigina]

Ver archivo adjunto 9177797
Tell me again about how Spindlehorse is totally an indie company?

They're as indie as much GLITCH is.

Nonexistent. They already have diehard fans who are no different from Disney/modern-Pixar fans who will consume anything without question. Difference is, at least some Disney/Pixar fans actually try to hear the other side out. Good luck trying to admit your dislike for TADC or any GLITCH show without being reprimanded a thing or two because "media literacy" or whatever. It's even worse now since Jax being a woman-hating transgender is now canon.

 

[SpiderBitch]

Crossposting from the Vivziepop thread.
https://x.com/DiscussingFilm/status/2069024657475318102Ver archivo adjunto 9177765

... whats the age rating of this thing gonna be? Vivzie got her start in the mainstream by making pretty childfriendly funky animated music videos so I dont inherently mind her being involved to some degree, but her writing/story quality is horrible so they better have some good wranglers and have her stick to mostly the art direction.

 

[didelphigina]

... whats the age rating of this thing gonna be? Vivzie got her start in the mainstream by making pretty childfriendly funky animated music videos so I dont inherently mind her being involved to some degree, but her writing/story quality is horrible so they better have some good wranglers and have her stick to mostly the art direction.

I'm hoping so, too. But I am not holding my breath. We all know Viv's going to sneak in something progressive or lame, even if it has little purpose to the actual story/worldbuilding.

 

[A Grey Cat]

Crossposting from the Vivziepop thread.
https://x.com/DiscussingFilm/status/2069024657475318102Ver archivo adjunto 9177765

Maybe it's cause I don't follow vivzies life story and only barley follow the hazbin helluva drama (and glitchs most I know about them is gooseworx is a troon) but I took one look at that and thought...OK who combined the now retconed tranny from paper Mario with a Dino Pokémon?

Like....I don't like this on first impression but I can't honestly "hate" it either. Just understand that it automatically has a stigma attached because "it's spindle trash." Amd as this kiwi said.

We all know Viv's going to sneak in something progressive or lame, even if it has little purpose to the actual story/worldbuilding

Or maybe I'm just so fatigued with animations shit foolery that I'm out of anger.

 

[Chromeo]

I'm an xy chromosome carrier who's had only brothers my whole life and even I KNOW, you do not immediately jump on the tampon bandwagon for a first period. And just because of the implications you mentioned but because first timers are susceptible to toxic shock there were lawsuits against tampons because of a lot of cases of that years ago. You'd think the self proclaimed "feminists" writing this garbage would know that.

THANK YOU!! I've been saying this forever.

Or maybe I'm just so fatigued with animations shit foolery that I'm out of anger.

Same, BUT look on the bright side: Vivziepop's finally making something that doesn't have to do with demons in hell! Sinners rejoice!

 

[TheAmbiguousLurker]

... whats the age rating of this thing gonna be?

Well, it can't be a kids movie, 90% of Vivziepop plots are spamming swear words, the fuck is she gonna do without them?

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

... whats the age rating of this thing gonna be? Vivzie got her start in the mainstream by making pretty childfriendly funky animated music videos so I dont inherently mind her being involved to some degree, but her writing/story quality is horrible so they better have some good wranglers and have her stick to mostly the art direction.

Doesn't really matter because she's going to do what she literally always does:

Drop the initial premise three episodes in and focus on gayboi drama.

 

[Blue Gem Kosher Queen]

Just a heads’s up.
I Am Frankelda is coming to Netflix with an English dub and Mireya Mendoza (Frankelda herself) reprises her role.
In about an hour, the Ambriz bros (Cinema Fantasma’s head honchos) will have an AMA on Reddit. It’s in Spanish but check it out if you can. I’ll be swamped with work but I wanted to share it.

 

[Wot Zit Too Yah0996]

It's insultingly amazing how different Teen Titans GO! is from the original series. Teen Titans, being an early-mid 2000s Cartoon Network show, even had implied, all but stated episodes around the themes of grooming (Raven), rape (Raven), abusive parents (Raven), workplace bullying (Beast Boy), child soldiers (Terra and Robin), dead parents (Cyborg), growing up with a bully for a sibling (Starfire), war (that Nuclear Russian Mutant), societal collapse (Nuclear Russian Mutant), racism (Starfire and Cyborg) etc....

Not to be a nostalgitard, and at the risk of seeming like I'm talking complete twaddle, but kids cartoons in recent years wouldn't dare address any of that... well, actually, no: they'd address prejudice, but in the annoying way we're all getting "used to".

 

[penninkfaget]

Crossposting from the Vivziepop thread.
https://x.com/DiscussingFilm/status/2069024657475318102Ver archivo adjunto 9177765

which will end up being shittier? disney's new film, or this?