Culture Vatican: Trans persons can be baptized as Catholics, serve as godparents

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If it would not cause scandal or confusion among other Catholics, "a transsexual -- even one who has undergone hormone treatment and gender reassignment surgery -- may receive baptism under the same conditions as other faithful," said a document from the Vatican's Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith.

The document, signed Oct. 31 by Pope Francis and by Cardinal Víctor Manuel Fernández, prefect of the dicastery, was posted in Italian on the office's website Nov. 8.

A note published with it said the document was a response to a letter submitted in July by Bishop José Negri of Santo Amaro, Brazil, "containing some questions about the possible participation in baptism and weddings by transexual persons and homo-affective persons."

The questions about weddings involved whether trans persons or other LGBTQ+ persons could be witnesses at a Catholic wedding. The response to both questions was that "there is nothing in current universal canonical legislation that prohibits" either from serving as a witness at a Catholic marriage.

Responses to the questions about baptism were longer, more nuanced and urged pastoral prudence to minister to the people in question, safeguard the sacrament and prevent scandal.

Whether deciding to baptize a person or to permit him or her to serve as a godparent, "due pastoral prudence demands that every situation be wisely pondered, in order to safeguard the sacrament of baptism and especially its reception, which is a precious good to be protected, since it is necessary for salvation," the document said.

Special care must be taken, it said, when "there are doubts about the objective moral situation in which the person finds him- or herself, or about his or her subjective dispositions toward grace."

The church teaches that when baptism is received without repentance for serious sins, it said, he or she receives the "sacramental character" but not "sanctifying grace."

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Vatican's note said, affirms that "this configuration to Christ and to the Church, brought about by the Spirit, is indelible, it remains forever in the Christian as a positive disposition for grace, a promise and guarantee of divine protection, and as a vocation to divine worship and to the service of the Church."

Because that mark is indelible, once the person baptized without the proper disposition repents, sanctifying grace is present, it said. That possibility, it added, is why Pope Francis, in his 2013 exhortation Evangelii Gaudium wrote that the church must have very serious reasons for turning someone away and must be especially hesitant before denying someone baptism.

Therefore, it said, even if there are doubts about the person's current commitment to living a fully Christian life, "one must never forget this aspect of the fidelity of the unconditional love of God, which is capable of generating even with the sinner an irrevocable covenant, always open to a development that is also unpredictable."

The church and its ministers do not simply wait for a person's conversion, though, it said, but constantly call people "to live fully all the implications of the baptism received, which must always be understood and unfolded within the entire journey of Christian initiation."

On the question of whether a trans person can be a godparent, the document said it is possible "under certain conditions," but because the role is not a right, "pastoral prudence" is required to avoid the "danger of scandal" or confusion among the faithful.

It also cautioned that gay persons living together in a relationship like a marriage, especially if it is known in the community, probably should not serve as godparents, but can be invited to serve as witnesses to the baptism.

The dicastery repeated an affirmation that the child of a gay couple can be baptized when there is a well-founded hope that the child will be raised Catholic.

On July 14, 2023, this Dicastery received a letter from H.E. Msgr. José Negri, Bishop of Santo Amaro in Brazil, containing some questions regarding the possible participation in the sacraments of baptism and marriage by transsexual and homoaffective persons.

After a study in this regard, this Dicastery responded in the following:

Responses of the Dicastery to H.E. Msgr. Negri

The following responses reiterate, in good substance, the basic contents of
what, already in the past, has been affirmed on the subject by this Dicastery.

1. Can a transsexual be baptized?

A transsexual-who had also undergone hormone treatment and surgery
sex reassignment surgery - can receive baptism, under the same conditions
of other believers, if there are no situations in which there is a risk of generating public scandal or disorientation among the faithful. In the case of children or adolescents with issues of a transgender, if well prepared and willing, these can receive Baptism.

At the same time, the following should be considered, especially when there is some doubts about the objective moral situation in which a person finds himself, or about his subjective dispositions toward grace.

In the case of Baptism, the Church teaches that when the sacrament is received without repentance for grave sins, the person does not receive sanctifying grace, although he or she he receives the sacramental character. The Catechism states, "This configuration to Christ and to the Church, brought about by the Spirit, is indelible; it remains forever in the Christian as a positive disposition to grace, as a promise and guarantee of divine protection, and as a vocation to divine worship and service to the Church."

St. Thomas Aquinas taught, in fact, that when the impediment to grace disappears, in someone who has received Baptism without the right dispositions, the character itself "is an immediate cause that disposes one to receive grace".

St. Augustine of Hippo recalled this situation by saying that even if a man falls into sin, Christ does not destroy the character received by him in Baptism and seeks the sinner, in whom this character is imprinted that identifies him as his property.

Thus we can understand why Pope Francis wanted to emphasize that
baptism "is the door that allows Christ the Lord to settle in our person and for us to immerse ourselves in his Mystery."

This concretely implies that "not even the doors of the Sacraments should not be closed for any reason. This is especially true when it comes to that sacrament which is "the door," Baptism [...] the Church is not a customs house, it is the paternal home where there is room for each person with his or her labored life."

Then, even when doubts remain about a person's objective moral situation or about his subjective dispositions toward grace, one should never
forget this aspect of the faithfulness of God's unconditional love, capable of generating even with the sinner an irrevocable covenant, always open to development, also unpredictable. This is true even when in the penitent there does not appear in a fully manifestly a purpose of amendment, because often the predictability of a new fall "does not undermine the authenticity of the purpose".

In any case, the Church will always have to call to live out fully all the implications of baptism received, which must always be understood and unfolded within the entire journey of Christian initiation.

2. Can a transsexual be a godfather or godmother of baptism?

Under certain conditions, one may admit to the task of godfather or godmother an adult transsexual who had also undergone hormone treatment and surgery sex reassignment surgery. However, since this task does not constitute a right, pastoral prudence demands that it should not be allowed if there is a danger of scandal, of undue legitimization or disorientation in the educational sphere of the church community.

3. Can a transsexual be a witness in a marriage?

There is nothing in current universal canon law that prohibits a transgender person from being a witness at a wedding.

4. Two homoaffective persons can figure as parents of a child, who
must be baptized, and who was adopted or obtained by other methods such as uterus for rent?

For the child to be baptized there must be a well-founded hope that he or she will be brought up in the Catholic religion. (cf. can. 868 § 1, 2 o CIC; can. 681, § 1, 1o CCEO)

5. Can a person who is homo-affective and cohabiting be godfather to a baptized person?

According to can. 874 § 1, 1st and 3rd CIC, a person may be godfather or godmother who possesses the aptitude (cf. 1o) and "leads a life in conformity with the faith and the charge he or she assumes" (3rd; cf. can. 685, § 2 CCEO). Different is the case where the cohabitation of two homoaffective persons consists, not in a simple cohabitation, but in a stable and declared more intimate relationship, well known to the community.

In any case, due pastoral prudence demands that each situation be wisely
pondered, in order to safeguard the sacrament of baptism and especially its reception, which is precious good to be protected, since it is necessary for salvation, precious good to be protected, since it is necessary for salvation

At the same time, it is necessary to consider the real value that the ecclesial community confers on the duties of godfather and godmother, the role they play in the community and the consideration they show toward the teaching of the Church. Finally, it is to also take into account the possibility that there may be another person from the family circle to act as a guarantor of the proper transmission of the Catholic faith to the baptizing person, knowing that one can still assist the baptizing person, during the rite, not only as godfather or godmother but, likewise, as witnesses to the baptismal act.

6. Can a person who is homo-affective and cohabiting be a witness to a marriage?

There is nothing in current universal canon law that prohibits a homo-affective and cohabiting person from being a witness to a marriage.
 
For what I know, the Vatican's consultants (millenials and boomers) think being trans is like being born intersex: not a mental illness but "born this way" and perfectly normal. The Vatican legislate for what they are told.
Yep, remember the Vatican, like Japan, is run by ANCIENT old men
Precisely what happened after Vatican II. The documents didn't change much on paper, but liberals hijacked the "Spirit of Vatican II" to insert whatever the hell they wanted into the life of the Church. And the children, for that matter. Most of the priests who turned out to be pedos were fags who joined the priesthood to avoid getting drafted during Vietnam.
Correct, see the book "In the Closet of the Vatican"

Also, any institution where an adult is given access to children will attract pedophiles.
 
Only Orthodoxy is based Christianity, and even then (((Phanar))) is a major issue.
The phanar isn't even remotely as big an issue as the pope is. He could come out as pro tranny pro gay pro whatever tommorow like the pope has and all the other patriarchs could tell him to eat a dick in response because they're all considered equals.

The pope can suck tranny dick on public television and nobody can say anything because of papal infallibility.
 
Based. I'm sick of these retarded semitic sand people cults. If you want to follow Rabbi Yeshua or the child rapist Mohammed then do so from the desert they came from.
Based. Return to the ancient traditions and philosophical traditions of the West.

Stoicism has everything you need to live a rich, fulfilling life and to face death with confidence. And the world the Stoics lived in was far more pleasant and prosperous than the centuries of oppression, ignorance and poverty that followed Constantine's Edict of Milan. I hate to break it to people but Jesus isn't coming back, not now and not ever. He died just another crucified rebel in Judea in 33 AD and that was the end of it.

If he didn't have his reunion tour on the calendar during the Black Death when people went apeshit killing anyone they thought was responsible while the victims died covered in buboes in the street, or during the Thirty Years' War when POWs were tortured by forcing them to drink sewage until their stomachs exploded or when Japs were skewering babies alive and intentionally infecting women with VD, or when the Germans deployed the Dirlewanger Brigade to rape and kill anyone in their path, or when the Hutus decided the Tutsis deserved extermination and took matters into their own hands...

...I'm sure he'll show up this time to bail you out from drag queens and trannies molesting children. Just keep praying, paying and obeying.
 
To be fair, he has publicly denounced tranny ideology in principle before. You don't hear much from him unless it's some "treat sinners with kid-gloves" statement that the Lugenpresse can take out of context and twist, which they frequently do.

And he's been pope for 10 years, so there's no way he doesn't know that. Souls will get burnt from him playing with fire.
That is really the biggest thing people shit on Francis for. They find something from his and throw the context into a dumpster so they can make him look better or worse.

That's been happening for the last 500 years. It led to lolcows like Unitarian Universalists or the Quiverfull Movement.
Hit them with this, it's like putting holy water on demons:
 
I see that the Catholic Church didn't miss much when another aspiring homosexual priest quit the seminary.

There is a God.
 
Like my grand-mother said, it's becoming harder every day to be Catholic.
I won't shit on Vatican 2 too much because John Paul II was such a great pope, but things are not going well.
Pope Francis is getting into heresy and anti-pope territory. Not because of the illegitimacy of his election like previous anti-popes, but really for subverting and harming the Church.
Vatican II was in the 60s. JPII wasn't even a Cardinal then, he was just a junior Bishop in Poland.
 
The Pope convened a Synod last year and one of the big things that came up from basically every Bishop was what the Church's stance on transexuality was. The Pope wrote his conclusion based on the Synod that trannies are living in sin and rejecting the body God made for them, so they were to be denied the Sacraments. The fact he has pulled a complete 180 in less than a year is really indicative of Francis and his tenure.
It's because he's trying to stave off a schism with the German Bishops. He knows the Tradcaths will stay the course, because they inherently believe that the Catholic Church is the Rock and therefore no matter what happens temporally they're 'in right' and all the ones who were going to jump ship did already decades ago. But now the German Bishops are trying to force all of the gayfaggot shit with all of their proposals and nonsense out of the Synodal Way, and if they leave they'll take a massive treasure with them since Germany makes it mandatory to pay tithes in the form of state taxes.
 
It's because he's trying to stave off a schism with the German Bishops. He knows the Tradcaths will stay the course, because they inherently believe that the Catholic Church is the Rock and therefore no matter what happens temporally they're 'in right' and all the ones who were going to jump ship did already decades ago. But now the German Bishops are trying to force all of the gayfaggot shit with all of their proposals and nonsense out of the Synodal Way, and if they leave they'll take a massive treasure with them since Germany makes it mandatory to pay tithes in the form of state taxes.
So they love money more than they love obeying God. That always seemed to turn out well when people did that in the Bible. Where did Judas spend that 30 pieces of silver, btw?
 
I'm waiting for celibate, natal, women priests. Fuck the old boys club that is the RCC.
 
This is kind of an obvious thing though. Obviously you can still be baptized even after being so possessed as to cut off your penis or to have received HRT in the past. It’s a remission of sin. If not then are trannies not allowed to go to confession either?
Under the same conditions as any other faithful means it still needs to be genuine. So for Godparents they need to be faithful Catholics (what people consider to be faithful is another story, unfortunately)
And a witness to marriage is literally just someone who can say “yes I saw them get married”
 
I laugh cuz everyone in that ceremony is going to Hell :)
Yeah, why it doesn't ultimately matter. God promised us the gates of Hell would never prevail against Her.

I am wondering what the actual demand is for the baptism of troons. Most of them are godless coomers, but I imagine quite a few were already validly baptized. What I think I get from this is that troons can be baptized, but they should first renounce being a troon. If the priest isn't sure, they should do it anyway as that grace and entrance of the Holy Spirit into their lives could be the thing they need to finally renounce it. I mean, optimistic ratings galore for that, but I think that is what they are getting at. Baptism is one thing, but can they be confirmed is another. I don't know why they entertained the idea of troon godparents though.
 
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