Culture Vatican: Trans persons can be baptized as Catholics, serve as godparents

L | A

If it would not cause scandal or confusion among other Catholics, "a transsexual -- even one who has undergone hormone treatment and gender reassignment surgery -- may receive baptism under the same conditions as other faithful," said a document from the Vatican's Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith.

The document, signed Oct. 31 by Pope Francis and by Cardinal Víctor Manuel Fernández, prefect of the dicastery, was posted in Italian on the office's website Nov. 8.

A note published with it said the document was a response to a letter submitted in July by Bishop José Negri of Santo Amaro, Brazil, "containing some questions about the possible participation in baptism and weddings by transexual persons and homo-affective persons."

The questions about weddings involved whether trans persons or other LGBTQ+ persons could be witnesses at a Catholic wedding. The response to both questions was that "there is nothing in current universal canonical legislation that prohibits" either from serving as a witness at a Catholic marriage.

Responses to the questions about baptism were longer, more nuanced and urged pastoral prudence to minister to the people in question, safeguard the sacrament and prevent scandal.

Whether deciding to baptize a person or to permit him or her to serve as a godparent, "due pastoral prudence demands that every situation be wisely pondered, in order to safeguard the sacrament of baptism and especially its reception, which is a precious good to be protected, since it is necessary for salvation," the document said.

Special care must be taken, it said, when "there are doubts about the objective moral situation in which the person finds him- or herself, or about his or her subjective dispositions toward grace."

The church teaches that when baptism is received without repentance for serious sins, it said, he or she receives the "sacramental character" but not "sanctifying grace."

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Vatican's note said, affirms that "this configuration to Christ and to the Church, brought about by the Spirit, is indelible, it remains forever in the Christian as a positive disposition for grace, a promise and guarantee of divine protection, and as a vocation to divine worship and to the service of the Church."

Because that mark is indelible, once the person baptized without the proper disposition repents, sanctifying grace is present, it said. That possibility, it added, is why Pope Francis, in his 2013 exhortation Evangelii Gaudium wrote that the church must have very serious reasons for turning someone away and must be especially hesitant before denying someone baptism.

Therefore, it said, even if there are doubts about the person's current commitment to living a fully Christian life, "one must never forget this aspect of the fidelity of the unconditional love of God, which is capable of generating even with the sinner an irrevocable covenant, always open to a development that is also unpredictable."

The church and its ministers do not simply wait for a person's conversion, though, it said, but constantly call people "to live fully all the implications of the baptism received, which must always be understood and unfolded within the entire journey of Christian initiation."

On the question of whether a trans person can be a godparent, the document said it is possible "under certain conditions," but because the role is not a right, "pastoral prudence" is required to avoid the "danger of scandal" or confusion among the faithful.

It also cautioned that gay persons living together in a relationship like a marriage, especially if it is known in the community, probably should not serve as godparents, but can be invited to serve as witnesses to the baptism.

The dicastery repeated an affirmation that the child of a gay couple can be baptized when there is a well-founded hope that the child will be raised Catholic.

On July 14, 2023, this Dicastery received a letter from H.E. Msgr. José Negri, Bishop of Santo Amaro in Brazil, containing some questions regarding the possible participation in the sacraments of baptism and marriage by transsexual and homoaffective persons.

After a study in this regard, this Dicastery responded in the following:

Responses of the Dicastery to H.E. Msgr. Negri

The following responses reiterate, in good substance, the basic contents of
what, already in the past, has been affirmed on the subject by this Dicastery.

1. Can a transsexual be baptized?

A transsexual-who had also undergone hormone treatment and surgery
sex reassignment surgery - can receive baptism, under the same conditions
of other believers, if there are no situations in which there is a risk of generating public scandal or disorientation among the faithful. In the case of children or adolescents with issues of a transgender, if well prepared and willing, these can receive Baptism.

At the same time, the following should be considered, especially when there is some doubts about the objective moral situation in which a person finds himself, or about his subjective dispositions toward grace.

In the case of Baptism, the Church teaches that when the sacrament is received without repentance for grave sins, the person does not receive sanctifying grace, although he or she he receives the sacramental character. The Catechism states, "This configuration to Christ and to the Church, brought about by the Spirit, is indelible; it remains forever in the Christian as a positive disposition to grace, as a promise and guarantee of divine protection, and as a vocation to divine worship and service to the Church."

St. Thomas Aquinas taught, in fact, that when the impediment to grace disappears, in someone who has received Baptism without the right dispositions, the character itself "is an immediate cause that disposes one to receive grace".

St. Augustine of Hippo recalled this situation by saying that even if a man falls into sin, Christ does not destroy the character received by him in Baptism and seeks the sinner, in whom this character is imprinted that identifies him as his property.

Thus we can understand why Pope Francis wanted to emphasize that
baptism "is the door that allows Christ the Lord to settle in our person and for us to immerse ourselves in his Mystery."

This concretely implies that "not even the doors of the Sacraments should not be closed for any reason. This is especially true when it comes to that sacrament which is "the door," Baptism [...] the Church is not a customs house, it is the paternal home where there is room for each person with his or her labored life."

Then, even when doubts remain about a person's objective moral situation or about his subjective dispositions toward grace, one should never
forget this aspect of the faithfulness of God's unconditional love, capable of generating even with the sinner an irrevocable covenant, always open to development, also unpredictable. This is true even when in the penitent there does not appear in a fully manifestly a purpose of amendment, because often the predictability of a new fall "does not undermine the authenticity of the purpose".

In any case, the Church will always have to call to live out fully all the implications of baptism received, which must always be understood and unfolded within the entire journey of Christian initiation.

2. Can a transsexual be a godfather or godmother of baptism?

Under certain conditions, one may admit to the task of godfather or godmother an adult transsexual who had also undergone hormone treatment and surgery sex reassignment surgery. However, since this task does not constitute a right, pastoral prudence demands that it should not be allowed if there is a danger of scandal, of undue legitimization or disorientation in the educational sphere of the church community.

3. Can a transsexual be a witness in a marriage?

There is nothing in current universal canon law that prohibits a transgender person from being a witness at a wedding.

4. Two homoaffective persons can figure as parents of a child, who
must be baptized, and who was adopted or obtained by other methods such as uterus for rent?

For the child to be baptized there must be a well-founded hope that he or she will be brought up in the Catholic religion. (cf. can. 868 § 1, 2 o CIC; can. 681, § 1, 1o CCEO)

5. Can a person who is homo-affective and cohabiting be godfather to a baptized person?

According to can. 874 § 1, 1st and 3rd CIC, a person may be godfather or godmother who possesses the aptitude (cf. 1o) and "leads a life in conformity with the faith and the charge he or she assumes" (3rd; cf. can. 685, § 2 CCEO). Different is the case where the cohabitation of two homoaffective persons consists, not in a simple cohabitation, but in a stable and declared more intimate relationship, well known to the community.

In any case, due pastoral prudence demands that each situation be wisely
pondered, in order to safeguard the sacrament of baptism and especially its reception, which is precious good to be protected, since it is necessary for salvation, precious good to be protected, since it is necessary for salvation

At the same time, it is necessary to consider the real value that the ecclesial community confers on the duties of godfather and godmother, the role they play in the community and the consideration they show toward the teaching of the Church. Finally, it is to also take into account the possibility that there may be another person from the family circle to act as a guarantor of the proper transmission of the Catholic faith to the baptizing person, knowing that one can still assist the baptizing person, during the rite, not only as godfather or godmother but, likewise, as witnesses to the baptismal act.

6. Can a person who is homo-affective and cohabiting be a witness to a marriage?

There is nothing in current universal canon law that prohibits a homo-affective and cohabiting person from being a witness to a marriage.
 
I don't really expect a big split in Catholicism, but maybe there is a need for one. What's the point of a church that just gave in to all the wordly things? You could just be secular at that point.

"one must never forget this aspect of the fidelity of the unconditional love of God, which is capable of generating even with the sinner an irrevocable covenant, always open to a development that is also unpredictable."
Troons are literally doing the deadly sin of Pride. They simply thing they are above God's creation and that they define everything.

And let's not forget Lust, all the people whose only identity is their sexuality are... lustful. Surprising, isn't it. lol
 
For what I know, the Vatican's consultants (millenials and boomers) think being trans is like being born intersex: not a mental illness but "born this way" and perfectly normal. The Vatican legislate for what they are told.
 
I don't really expect a big split in Catholicism, but maybe there is a need for one. What's the point of a church that just gave in to all the wordly things? You could just be secular at that point
Makes you wonder what’ll be enough to cause a split.
Troons are literally doing the deadly sin of Pride. They simply thing they are above God's creation and that they define everything.

And let's not forget Lust, all the people whose only identity is their sexuality are... lustful. Surprising, isn't it. lol
Oh yeah, Dylan Mulvaney alone is proof of prime arrogance. Not sure about lust, but I’m sure that AGPs did something.
 
For what I know, the Vatican's consultants (millenials and boomers) think being trans is like being born intersex: not a mental illness but "born this way" and perfectly normal. The Vatican legislate for what they are told.
Misunderstanding or naive, they will offer an inch and a mile will definitely be taken and then some.
 
Makes you wonder what’ll be enough to cause a split.
If enough higher level officials in the structure would rebel, it could be possible.

The problem is... You won't get rebellious Bishops, because they are having a conformable life and must be compromised and groomed to be in their position. Ultimately we are looking at an institution that was around for over a thousand years. If they survived Popes warring each other they will just roll with becoming this...

Catholicism is based on it's hierarchy and organization. So they lack the luxury that protestants have: if you think your preacher is cringe you can just start your own church. For Catholics there is simply too much capital tied down in the church. Even if you somehow leave, as a coherent group. You won't have access to the fancy cathedrals, universities etc.
 
Individual Catholics are based. The vatican hasn't been based since like the 80s or even before.
Misunderstanding or naive, they will offer an inch and a mile will definitely be taken and then some.
Precisely what happened after Vatican II. The documents didn't change much on paper, but liberals hijacked the "Spirit of Vatican II" to insert whatever the hell they wanted into the life of the Church. And the children, for that matter. Most of the priests who turned out to be pedos were fags who joined the priesthood to avoid getting drafted during Vietnam.

Pope Francis, likewise, hasn't actually made any real departures from orthodoxy. This document is treating transgenderism like any other pre-baptism sin.

Where he has caused harm is by enabling permissiveness in the name of being "pastoral", which is just their code for "don't hurt anyone's feefees when preaching the Gospel".
If enough higher level officials in the structure would rebel.
The Vatican has the same problem as the GOP: they're deathly afraid of offending people who already loathe them. Meanwhile, faithful bishops and cardinals who stand up for morality in the public square are getting shafted with lousy positions.

My bishop is based, so I don't pay attention to the Vatican office politics anymore. Anything other than praying for them is a blackpilling look into a sausage factory.
 
Última edición:
Catholics are fucking hilarious. Anyone who actually willingly holds such genuinely retarded beliefs is clearly intellectually subnormal and to be pitied rather than mocked.
 
The Vatican has the same problem as the GOP: they're deathly afraid of offending people who already loathe them. Meanwhile, faithful bishops and cardinals who stand up for morality in the public square are getting shafted with lousy positions.
Pretty much. Of course the whole Pedophile scandal just vanished into nothing when the church bent it's knee. Curious.
 
Precisely what happened after Vatican II. The documents didn't change much on paper, but liberals hijacked the "Spirit of Vatican II" to insert whatever the hell they wanted.

Pope Francis, likewise hasn't actually made any real departures from orthodoxy. This document is treating transgenderism like any other pre-baptism sin.

Where he has caused harm is by enabling permissiveness in the name of being "pastoral", which is just their code for "don't hurt anyone's feefees when preaching the Gospel".
This is why I personally see Francis as a "Modernist-Lite". He'll do some things many would consider modernist but isn't willing to do extreme measures like what trad-caths on Twitter say he'll do.
 
A bunch of slave morality horseshit as usual. I'm increasingly convinced Christianity was adopted by the Roman Empire because it kept the slaves and poor docile and submissive today for some dream of a better life in heaven.

No wonder slaveholders in the South were so eager to baptize their slaves. Shut up and obey and bend over and take it, blessed are the poor and meek! That disgusting "Litany of Humility" was the icing on the cake for me that made me finally abandon Catholicism for good.

The Jews fought to the last man at Masada and Betar and never failed to take revenge against their enemies when the opportunity presented itself. I respect the values of the Tanakh so much more than the "New Testament".
 
As my spiritual progenitor would say 500 years ago, "The Pope is the Anti-Christ... also fuck the Jews and their lies."
The Diet of Worms.jpg
 
Atrás
Top Abajo