Culture Vatican: Trans persons can be baptized as Catholics, serve as godparents

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If it would not cause scandal or confusion among other Catholics, "a transsexual -- even one who has undergone hormone treatment and gender reassignment surgery -- may receive baptism under the same conditions as other faithful," said a document from the Vatican's Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith.

The document, signed Oct. 31 by Pope Francis and by Cardinal Víctor Manuel Fernández, prefect of the dicastery, was posted in Italian on the office's website Nov. 8.

A note published with it said the document was a response to a letter submitted in July by Bishop José Negri of Santo Amaro, Brazil, "containing some questions about the possible participation in baptism and weddings by transexual persons and homo-affective persons."

The questions about weddings involved whether trans persons or other LGBTQ+ persons could be witnesses at a Catholic wedding. The response to both questions was that "there is nothing in current universal canonical legislation that prohibits" either from serving as a witness at a Catholic marriage.

Responses to the questions about baptism were longer, more nuanced and urged pastoral prudence to minister to the people in question, safeguard the sacrament and prevent scandal.

Whether deciding to baptize a person or to permit him or her to serve as a godparent, "due pastoral prudence demands that every situation be wisely pondered, in order to safeguard the sacrament of baptism and especially its reception, which is a precious good to be protected, since it is necessary for salvation," the document said.

Special care must be taken, it said, when "there are doubts about the objective moral situation in which the person finds him- or herself, or about his or her subjective dispositions toward grace."

The church teaches that when baptism is received without repentance for serious sins, it said, he or she receives the "sacramental character" but not "sanctifying grace."

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Vatican's note said, affirms that "this configuration to Christ and to the Church, brought about by the Spirit, is indelible, it remains forever in the Christian as a positive disposition for grace, a promise and guarantee of divine protection, and as a vocation to divine worship and to the service of the Church."

Because that mark is indelible, once the person baptized without the proper disposition repents, sanctifying grace is present, it said. That possibility, it added, is why Pope Francis, in his 2013 exhortation Evangelii Gaudium wrote that the church must have very serious reasons for turning someone away and must be especially hesitant before denying someone baptism.

Therefore, it said, even if there are doubts about the person's current commitment to living a fully Christian life, "one must never forget this aspect of the fidelity of the unconditional love of God, which is capable of generating even with the sinner an irrevocable covenant, always open to a development that is also unpredictable."

The church and its ministers do not simply wait for a person's conversion, though, it said, but constantly call people "to live fully all the implications of the baptism received, which must always be understood and unfolded within the entire journey of Christian initiation."

On the question of whether a trans person can be a godparent, the document said it is possible "under certain conditions," but because the role is not a right, "pastoral prudence" is required to avoid the "danger of scandal" or confusion among the faithful.

It also cautioned that gay persons living together in a relationship like a marriage, especially if it is known in the community, probably should not serve as godparents, but can be invited to serve as witnesses to the baptism.

The dicastery repeated an affirmation that the child of a gay couple can be baptized when there is a well-founded hope that the child will be raised Catholic.

On July 14, 2023, this Dicastery received a letter from H.E. Msgr. José Negri, Bishop of Santo Amaro in Brazil, containing some questions regarding the possible participation in the sacraments of baptism and marriage by transsexual and homoaffective persons.

After a study in this regard, this Dicastery responded in the following:

Responses of the Dicastery to H.E. Msgr. Negri

The following responses reiterate, in good substance, the basic contents of
what, already in the past, has been affirmed on the subject by this Dicastery.

1. Can a transsexual be baptized?

A transsexual-who had also undergone hormone treatment and surgery
sex reassignment surgery - can receive baptism, under the same conditions
of other believers, if there are no situations in which there is a risk of generating public scandal or disorientation among the faithful. In the case of children or adolescents with issues of a transgender, if well prepared and willing, these can receive Baptism.

At the same time, the following should be considered, especially when there is some doubts about the objective moral situation in which a person finds himself, or about his subjective dispositions toward grace.

In the case of Baptism, the Church teaches that when the sacrament is received without repentance for grave sins, the person does not receive sanctifying grace, although he or she he receives the sacramental character. The Catechism states, "This configuration to Christ and to the Church, brought about by the Spirit, is indelible; it remains forever in the Christian as a positive disposition to grace, as a promise and guarantee of divine protection, and as a vocation to divine worship and service to the Church."

St. Thomas Aquinas taught, in fact, that when the impediment to grace disappears, in someone who has received Baptism without the right dispositions, the character itself "is an immediate cause that disposes one to receive grace".

St. Augustine of Hippo recalled this situation by saying that even if a man falls into sin, Christ does not destroy the character received by him in Baptism and seeks the sinner, in whom this character is imprinted that identifies him as his property.

Thus we can understand why Pope Francis wanted to emphasize that
baptism "is the door that allows Christ the Lord to settle in our person and for us to immerse ourselves in his Mystery."

This concretely implies that "not even the doors of the Sacraments should not be closed for any reason. This is especially true when it comes to that sacrament which is "the door," Baptism [...] the Church is not a customs house, it is the paternal home where there is room for each person with his or her labored life."

Then, even when doubts remain about a person's objective moral situation or about his subjective dispositions toward grace, one should never
forget this aspect of the faithfulness of God's unconditional love, capable of generating even with the sinner an irrevocable covenant, always open to development, also unpredictable. This is true even when in the penitent there does not appear in a fully manifestly a purpose of amendment, because often the predictability of a new fall "does not undermine the authenticity of the purpose".

In any case, the Church will always have to call to live out fully all the implications of baptism received, which must always be understood and unfolded within the entire journey of Christian initiation.

2. Can a transsexual be a godfather or godmother of baptism?

Under certain conditions, one may admit to the task of godfather or godmother an adult transsexual who had also undergone hormone treatment and surgery sex reassignment surgery. However, since this task does not constitute a right, pastoral prudence demands that it should not be allowed if there is a danger of scandal, of undue legitimization or disorientation in the educational sphere of the church community.

3. Can a transsexual be a witness in a marriage?

There is nothing in current universal canon law that prohibits a transgender person from being a witness at a wedding.

4. Two homoaffective persons can figure as parents of a child, who
must be baptized, and who was adopted or obtained by other methods such as uterus for rent?

For the child to be baptized there must be a well-founded hope that he or she will be brought up in the Catholic religion. (cf. can. 868 § 1, 2 o CIC; can. 681, § 1, 1o CCEO)

5. Can a person who is homo-affective and cohabiting be godfather to a baptized person?

According to can. 874 § 1, 1st and 3rd CIC, a person may be godfather or godmother who possesses the aptitude (cf. 1o) and "leads a life in conformity with the faith and the charge he or she assumes" (3rd; cf. can. 685, § 2 CCEO). Different is the case where the cohabitation of two homoaffective persons consists, not in a simple cohabitation, but in a stable and declared more intimate relationship, well known to the community.

In any case, due pastoral prudence demands that each situation be wisely
pondered, in order to safeguard the sacrament of baptism and especially its reception, which is precious good to be protected, since it is necessary for salvation, precious good to be protected, since it is necessary for salvation

At the same time, it is necessary to consider the real value that the ecclesial community confers on the duties of godfather and godmother, the role they play in the community and the consideration they show toward the teaching of the Church. Finally, it is to also take into account the possibility that there may be another person from the family circle to act as a guarantor of the proper transmission of the Catholic faith to the baptizing person, knowing that one can still assist the baptizing person, during the rite, not only as godfather or godmother but, likewise, as witnesses to the baptismal act.

6. Can a person who is homo-affective and cohabiting be a witness to a marriage?

There is nothing in current universal canon law that prohibits a homo-affective and cohabiting person from being a witness to a marriage.
 
Reading the actual post and article makes it look like the Pope is saying "You could, probably, maybe baptize a Tranny but also might need serious consideration."

Basically a long, winded, "Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

Also this isn't an Ex Cathedra so it doesn't change the Church's stances on LGBTQ+ bs itself.
 
You could get hit by a car and end up in ITU with all the machines straining to keep you alive gradually giving in to the inevitable, and then suddenly standing at the side of your unexpected deathbed is a sex pest with five o'clock stubble and a shitty wig annoyed he has to give you the last rites as it cuts into his lurking in the women's toilet time.
 
A bunch of slave morality horseshit as usual. I'm increasingly convinced Christianity was adopted by the Roman Empire because it kept the slaves and poor docile and submissive today for some dream of a better life in heaven.

No wonder slaveholders in the South were so eager to baptize their slaves. Shut up and obey and bend over and take it, blessed are the poor and meek! That disgusting "Litany of Humility" was the icing on the cake for me that made me finally abandon Catholicism for good.

The Jews fought to the last man at Masada and Betar and never failed to take revenge against their enemies when the opportunity presented itself. I respect the values of the Tanakh so much more than the "New Testament".
You're supposed to switch accounts when you post bullshit inconsistent with the current account.
 
This is why I personally see Francis as a "Modernist-Lite". He'll do some things many would consider modernist but isn't willing to do extreme measures like what trad-caths on Twitter say he'll do.
To be fair, he has publicly denounced tranny ideology in principle before. You don't hear much from him unless it's some "treat sinners with kid-gloves" statement that the Lugenpresse can take out of context and twist, which they frequently do.

And he's been pope for 10 years, so there's no way he doesn't know that. Souls will get burnt from him playing with fire.
 
Commonfilth was right

bergoglio.jpg
 
You're supposed to switch accounts when you post bullshit inconsistent with the current account.
No, it's because I seriously considered entering seminary to become a Catholic priest in times now long past and learned a considerable amount of Christian theology during this period in my life. I rejected Christianity because it encourages submission and weakness as opposed to the strength and defense of your people and culture preached in the Tanakh and the pagan religions of Europe.

I'll always defend and aid Christians when someone says something obviously wrong, insulting or ignorant about their religion. Why? Because they are overwhelmingly decent people and I know they won't threaten me with the sword or the gun for having my own beliefs.

Only the very mentally sick would fantasize about me burning in hell for their own faults.
 
Reading the actual post and article makes it look like the Pope is saying "You could, probably, maybe baptize a Tranny but also might need serious consideration."

Basically a long, winded, "Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

Also this isn't an Ex Cathedra so it doesn't change the Church's stances on LGBTQ+ bs itself.
its the usual pope francis fare. someone else said pope francia said shit. i cant read italian so idk what it says
 
No, it's because I seriously considered entering seminary to become a Catholic priest in times now long past and learned a considerable amount of Christian theology during this period in my life. I rejected Christianity because it encourages submission and weakness as opposed to the strength and defense of your people and culture preached in the Tanakh and the pagan religions of Europe.

I'll always defend and aid Christians when someone says something obviously wrong, insulting or ignorant about their religion. Why? Because they are overwhelmingly decent people and I know they won't threaten me with the sword or the gun for having my own beliefs.

Only the very mentally sick would fantasize about me burning in hell for their own faults.
Paganism taught shit, in fact it taught egoism and cowardice, hence why the pagan population dropped like flies in the cities during the Antonine plague because they all ran for the hills for themselves while Christians stayed in the city and tended the sick. Had paganism remained the state religion when the Western Roman empire collapsed Europe would be hundreds of microstates in a dark age mire likely to this day because nobody bothered to archive old texts. Pagans would have melted against the Islamic horde while Christians fought them off for a millenium. This europagan larp flies in the face of what actually happened in Europe's history.
 
Like my grand-mother said, it's becoming harder every day to be Catholic.
I won't shit on Vatican 2 too much because John Paul II was such a great pope, but things are not going well.
Pope Francis is getting into heresy and anti-pope territory. Not because of the illegitimacy of his election like previous anti-popes, but really for subverting and harming the Church.
 
But wait...this site told me the Catholic church was le based compared to the cucked protestants
It's not "le based" but having a longstanding tradition that does not rely on a single mortal man's authority helps. Catholicism has seen vastly more degenerate popes.

Also read the fucking article. It says:
- retards who mutilated themselves can still get baptized, everyone can (unless they cursed the Holy Spirit I suppose).
- retards who mutilated themselves probably won't make good godparents, due to being retarded enough to have mutilated themselves.

Only Orthodoxy is based Christianity, and even then (((Phanar))) is a major issue.
It's not. Orthodoxy mostly sucks the geriatric cock of the Russian patriarch, the richest of them all, and he's a literal vice trader who was crowned by Yeltsin during the years of utter Sodom. And whenever Orthodoxy deviates from the will of the fag fag, it's cos Erdogan is pulling Bartholomew's strings.
 
The Pope convened a Synod last year and one of the big things that came up from basically every Bishop was what the Church's stance on transexuality was. The Pope wrote his conclusion based on the Synod that trannies are living in sin and rejecting the body God made for them, so they were to be denied the Sacraments. The fact he has pulled a complete 180 in less than a year is really indicative of Francis and his tenure.
 
A bunch of slave morality horseshit as usual. I'm increasingly convinced Christianity was adopted by the Roman Empire because it kept the slaves and poor docile and submissive today for some dream of a better life in heaven.

No wonder slaveholders in the South were so eager to baptize their slaves. Shut up and obey and bend over and take it, blessed are the poor and meek! That disgusting "Litany of Humility" was the icing on the cake for me that made me finally abandon Catholicism for good.

The Jews fought to the last man at Masada and Betar and never failed to take revenge against their enemies when the opportunity presented itself. I respect the values of the Tanakh so much more than the "New Testament".
Based. I'm sick of these retarded semitic sand people cults. If you want to follow Rabbi Yeshua or the child rapist Mohammed then do so from the desert they came from.
 
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