Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

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Berdly is unironically a better choice than Noelle is for helping with the dark worlds, and I'm not fucking joking.
it steams me that she only said noelle, and nothing about berdly. they fought him, they know that he's pretty tough on his own against three people! but noelle...all there would be to go off of is what kris tells susie. who knows what kris is saying to susie when we're not in control. maybe ralsei would know too, since he's ralsei. but, susie? come on man you just want your girlfriend in the group chat. she's cool and all but you two are insufferable together. the original starwalker isn't going to stand for this shit, especially not after the starwalker incident.
why would she not tell an ADULT
to be fair, look at the adults in town:
-Asgore
KIDNAPPED
-Undyne
KIDNAPPED
-Toriel
Good for recruiting units, but Kris's dad is already in the middle of this so Kris and Susie might have some objections
-Alphys
I do not want to see her Dark World form and neither does anybody else.
-Rudy
FUCKING DYING
-Carol
Good for killing everything, but good luck convincing her and Susie to cooperate especially when Susie is dead-set on involving Noelle and also Rudy might be FUCKING DEAD tomorrow
-Pizzapants
no but i fucking wish
-Catty and/or Bratty
no
-Alvin
Would probably be the only adult I could see taking a step into the Dark Worlds if you show him what one is like. Yeah, why didn't they decide to tell Alvin?
 
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The amount of shit Ch6 is going to have to do to make this even remotely tolerable is going to be absolutely herculean.

Another two year wait with "Lol fuck you Kris" as the cliffhanger.
 
it steams me that she only said noelle, and nothing about berdly. they fought him, they know that he's pretty tough on his own against three people! but noelle...all there would be to go off of is what kris tells susie. who knows what kris is saying to susie when we're not in control. maybe ralsei would know too, since he's ralsei. but, susie? come on man you just want your girlfriend in the group chat. she's cool and all but you two are insufferable together. the original starwalker isn't going to stand for this shit, especially not after the starwalker incident.
Yeah but Susie has now decided she's a lesbian and boys are icky and she's all about that doepussi.
Berdly being allowed to be an actual character would've been cool, considering the shit he tries to do in Chapter 2, he deserves better than becoming a nothing character.
Unfortunately, aborted Ch.4 and Ch.5 Snowgraves mean he's never going to have another major impact on the plot again, because it'd require Toby making an entire what-if for a character that is selectively fucking dead depending on player choice.
 
You know the ending to chapter 4 also felt like it was designed to piss you off too. Maybe this is Toby's preferred form of a cliffhanger? Just pissing off everyone? I don't really like it one bit, myself. The first three chapter endings were Kris baiting the audience so now it's everyone ragebaiting him to end each chapter.
Chapter 4 at least ends on a funny or a more 'energetic' one. Kris and Ralsei in the Dark World seemingly on track to derail the current prophecy, with Susie smashing part of it up and bloodying herself- which lends more fuel to the theory fire. Kris and Susie finding Sans Wingding Gaster fucking his mom, Kris running off into the night to vauge-goblin away somewhere. Carol calling you on the phone. Yeah it's a cliffhanger and it made people gnash their teeth at it, but it was a fun one.
This one is just fucking sad. Asgore nearly mentally breaks down as he fears his second* son is dead, he nearly tears himself out of the cork board because he fears finally he's let himself be consumed by the Dark World and it's hurt another person he cares about. It's nearly goddamn beautiful to see and end off on. Even the faux-battle Flowery had with the Knight I kinda dug on some level. What a way to end a chapter, it probably would've been a chef's kiss to a pile of garbage. A solid 5/10.
And then final part of the Kris humiliating ritual. It's Susie locking herself in delusions, barring Kris from it. It's setting up a party all for Noelle after Noelle and Susie have been badmouthing and ignoring our favorite mute nigga. Where does Kris go? Not home, even Susies actual home, to the one place that he maybe could also escape the shit-doe.
 
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lucifier.webp
>The game is a hate letter to the fans
 
it steams me that she only said noelle, and nothing about berdly. they fought him, they know that he's pretty tough on his own against three people! but noelle...all there would be to go off of is what kris tells susie. who knows what kris is saying to susie when we're not in control. maybe ralsei would know too, since he's ralsei. but, susie? come on man you just want your girlfriend in the group chat. she's cool and all but you two are insufferable together. the original starwalker isn't going to stand for this shit, especially not after the starwalker incident.

to be fair, look at the adults in town:
-Asgore
KIDNAPPED
-Undyne
KIDNAPPED
-Toriel
Good for recruiting units, but Kris's dad is already in the middle of this so Kris and Susie might have some objections
-Alphys
I do not want to see her Dark World form and neither does anybody else.
-Rudy
FUCKING DYING
-Carol
Good for killing everything, but good luck convincing her and Susie to cooperate especially when Susie is dead-set on involving Noelle and also Rudy might be FUCKING DEAD tomorrow
-Pizzapants
no but i fucking wish
-Catty and/or Bratty
no
-Alvin
Would probably be the only adult I could see taking a step into the Dark Worlds if you show him what one is like. Yeah, why didn't they decide to tell Alvin?
You forgot Sans "The Motherfucker" Undertale in your list.
A guy who has no problems raping timespace and being in multiple places at once and everyone just accepts it as it is.
 
It kind of seems like most people across the internet are in one of two extremes when it comes to relationship drama. Either they're completely disillusioned to the point of thinking Toby is rubbing yurishit in people's face and intentionally trying to cuck and humiliate Kris out of spite, or they completely deny that Kris has any romantic connection to Susie or Noelle despite the obvious hints and insist the whole thing is just a platonic friend being around two lesbians.

I feel like Chapter 5 making Kris's feelings for Susie the most explicit they've been so far, plus the continued bits of Noelle thinking about her past with Kris, means there has to be somewhere Toby intends to take this tension in the future chapters. But I have no idea what that is, and it would be hard to justify Susie and Noelle's interactions being so sloppy, whether intentional or not.

Which is why I say the biggest crime with the Chapter is not really moving the story forward much. I don't just mean with how nothing about the mysteries have really been revealed, but also now even the character relationships - the central "heart" of the story over the mystery stuff - are in an ambiguous state where it's clear what the author is promising to the audience about what will happen. And you need to have some promise to the audience about where the story is going, you can't just be a total mystery as to what the audience will get out of the story, because at that point it just feels like their being yanked around by an author who doesn't know where he's going with it himself (especially when it takes years between updates), and the audience will the fill the gaps with their own imagination, whether that be self-indulgent fan-fiction or dooming.
 
If you hate it now it does not get better.
i did the weird route, what the fuck is this? it really seems like some kind of fangame, especially with that insert chapter 7 side b. you can spam the proceed but not for so long, what if you keep doing it tho?

i though that this game would go into full esoteric mode after "they'll see tail of hell take crawl" n shit but apparently not. toby lost the fucking plot. will he fucking throw away everything, throw away gaster, the man, susie, friend, everyone and everything?

this chapter in general from the beginning felt really weird but holy shit i did not expect that.
 
Genuinely if they make Ralsei a tranny I'm logging off the fucking game.
A large part of the fanbase would be genuinely pissed off (you'd still be instabanned for expressing it outside of xitter THOUGH)
At least HetGODS got one small win with Dessriel bring confirmed
Tfw even your brother gets to have his tomboy gf
Ver archivo adjunto 9192834
Don't worry, there's still plenty of time to fuck it all up.
Tune in next time for Noelle reminiscing on how inspiring her sister was by being an out and proud lesbo.
 
Ok I actually reached the ending.
Here's my full thought:
I'm incredibly conflicted over this game, because I have to admit, there's a lot of high quality stuff, mainly the graphics, environments and regular enemies:
The gameplay alone is an outstanding upgrade from the previous ones, the swap from isometric to action platform alone is just brilliant and opens the place to a far more interesting adventure, not just for the chapter, but for the future.
Now here's where issues begin:
- It's a fucking slog of a chapter, overlybloated and yet feels undeveloped at the same time.
- The writing is so self-referential it makes auto-fellatio looks like an act of self-hatred.
- The secret boss is a sloppy second that ends with a transgender allegory.
- It advances very little the main plot, not focusing on a character they then just remove from play.
- Despite being teased for so long, the festival was fucking lame, again: I guess that's the price for cramming so much shit in the darkworld.
- Somehow, it fucks up Susie and Noelle.
- Provides more cockteases than anything else.
- The japanese settings is gorgeous, but it makes no fucking sense whatsoever.
- The final boss is actually good, but the ending fails to deliver and was just lame and rushed, like the rest of the hometown part.
- In term of how well they were written, I find only 3 out of the 7 flowers to be actually pleasant, the remaining ones are just dross.
  • Aqua is an overlyused trope, I can't hate her because she's the most pleasant thing in the chapter by a wide margin.
  • Flowery too is a trope, he's meant to be the "mister perfection" prick that you love to hate, and he works to an extreme degree and he delivers a pretty good final act.
  • The only reason I like the purple one is that she bounces quite well with Aqua, without that, she's just a boring genderspecial blob from tumblr.
These are the ones I liked, now let's review the rest in order from least bad to the literal niggerfaggot:
  • Orange was enjoyable until her true form was revealed.
  • I don't see what's so special with green, its a literal genderspecial blob from tumblr.
  • The moment I found knock-off woody talk about his boyfriend in that cave is the moment I felt like something weird was going on, it doesn't help that his characteer is just 2 particularly unfunny jokes.
  • Niggerfaggot, he was a literal niggerfaggot.
I think I have more complains in mind, but I'm gonna stop here because the list feels exhaustive enough.
So, in the end, I guess its the second worst chapter before 1, and the only reason I think chapter 1 is lower is because its just very small and rough compared to the rest, it succcessfully sets shit up, but there's virtually nothing of consequence there, which makes the chapter almost completely skippable.
The lowest point of chapter 1 cannot even comprehend the aberration that is the lowest points of chapter 5 but, at the same time, the best point of chapter 5 feels like a completely different game from chapter 1, despite referencing it so. many. FUCKING. TIMES!
Considering how THIS came after chapter 4, I don't feel any hopeful for the next ones unless someone ties toby fox to a chair and forced him to watch "How the sausage is made" by Metokur alongside various other videos with the sole purpose of radicalizing him toward hating at the very least the QT+ people and anything that follows it.
 
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