Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

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So ferris wheel ride with Noelle is apparently real, "forced" my ass. I don't know why he insists on throwing a bone just this once. Maybe he rewrote the chapter out of spite and forgot to clean up one of events.
This is actually impressive. Kris and Noelle have a ton of a heartfelt moments in their past. Kris and Susie have a ton of heartfelt moments in the present. Susie and Noelle have basically negative chemistry with one another, and THAT'S the pairing toby chose? This just makes me dislike Noelle even more for consistently stepping over Kris to get to Susie. Like the more her friendship with Kris gets the developed the more of a shit character she becomes for treating him like a stepping stone in present day.
 
It's not just doe.
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The big reveal at the end is apparently Susie bullied Kris because she thought he and Noelle were dating and was jealous of it, wanting Noelle all to herself. All because she was nice to her once and gave her a pencil. Straight up character assassination. I could feel a bit of schadenfreude that krusiefags now feel what I felt every time Noelle drools over the dino, but after all we're in the same boat with water that keeps leaking in.
Isn't it was heavily implied that she bullied him because he had a loving mother she never had?
 
I can't believe how bad Chapters 3 and 5 were. 6 and 7 have to step it up to even out 2 bad chapters.

1, 2 and 4 seem like a proper continuity without much bullshit going on. Tenna was okay but everything in 3 was way too overdone. Wonder if they were in a better state during development pre release builds.

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Chapter 4 properly continued the Lord Of The Hammer plotline that graveyard in chapter 1/2 hinted at. You can't really fuck up Tolkien kino.
I'm basically praying that we get more of what Chapter 4 delivered but it might go in the 3/5 gimmicky direction no one cares about over Toby's sick and dated sense of humor.

Maybe Chapter 5 was rushed?
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So I have been avoiding the thread, got near the end of the chapter and my fucking save corrupted (was fighting the secret boss), so I dont know if this has been posted yet.

So if you kill any of the titan spawn in chapter 4 (kill not banish) and level up Jackenstein fucking dies
Found the information from here

Im testing it now will update my post if it works or not

EDIT: This is exactly the issue, if you kill any of the spawn jackenstein is dead. He shows up in castle town if you have saved him correctly and he is now there for me.
 
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Tourist here and I am genuinely curious. Were people actually expecting something else? Undertale, as I understand it, was just teen-drama-tier writing with some wacky shit tacked on. So considering this is all the same isn't surprising to me at least.
 
Tourist here and I am genuinely curious. Were people actually expecting something else? Undertale, as I understand it, was just teen-drama-tier writing with some wacky shit tacked on. So considering this is all the same isn't surprising to me at least.
At the very least most people were not expecting the characters personalities to do a fucking 180 for the sake of some shoehorned lesbian fetish (annoying) dogshit.
 
I went into this expecting nothing but filler and I got exactly what I expected. I didn't mind it though; the Susie Noelle stuff was eye-rollingly cringe but they're teens, they're going to be that way. I'm glad that it got done sooner rather than later so we could focus on the real meat and potatoes: Asgore vague-posting for five hours while I deal with Undertale AUs that for some reason are endearing in an odd way. Yellow repeatedly trying to go to the ball-crushing factory because he thinks he's guilty was funny, I liked Flowery being a god-modding anime protagonist (If you inspect him outside of combat his image is a literal anime image), Seth being a Berdly simp was funny, and I enjoyed the views. One thing I have to say is that the writing quality has slipped but the art quality has sky-rocketed: that intro with the sunset and the music was one of the top ten music moments in the game.

Enough sucking Tricky Toby's dick though, let's get to that woke culture war stuff. Early on there's talk with the Queen about how 'you don't have to give birth to be a woman', which I mean fair, uterine cancer means you can't have kids, that happens, but there's also sorta a hanging in the air that Ralsei might be trans or at least non-binary, and really leaning into the they/them of Kris. People go 'Oh Kris is supposed to be you' and to that I gotta say that you're completely wrong; right at the beginning of the game it's stated nothing you do matters, everything's in stone, which means Kris being a they/thembian is a clear choice by Toby here. Of course there's no pride-flags, no full-on lesbian makeout scene, and the damn doe keeps failing to seal the deal with Barney, so I'm going to have to give this a staggeringly low 3/5 on the wokeness scale.

Music was mixed -- a lot of tracks get reused but they're good tracks. Flowery's theme sounds note for note like the Full House theme, the Flowerchildren's theme is catchy, The Seven Sunsets song Toby teased earlier in the week sounds even better than I expected, and the fact that the opening area was a rehash of Fields of Hopes and Dreams using the 8-bit band cover was an interesting choice. Honestly I expected the whole episode to lean into the ideas of nostalgia and comfort and retreading -- it's clear Asgore wants things to go back to how they were before the incident (BergenTRUCKung), my head canon is that the Roaring Knight - who we all know / suspect is Dess unless Toby 'Rugpull' Fox does something fucky again- wants things to go back to the way things were before her dad got sick, and Kris really seems to dwell on nostalgia and wants things the way they were before Asriel left for college. That's teased at first with the opening area and Flowery comforting and distracting Asgore, but my biggest complaint is that it instead does a ninety-degree turn straight into 'Asgore knows about Dark Worlds and wants to prove they exist', turning him into the deadbeat dad from Undertale that we all know and love that abandons his new kids to prove his schizo theories aren't schizo after all. Now mind you I'm not done with this. I'm at the optional boss and I stopped for the night there, but I'm near enough near the end that I can right my super-duper-cereal IGN-tier review for this chapter. This is the weakest chapter but that isn't bad; mind you chapter 3 was the weakest before this, but chapter 3 introduced the Knight at the end of all that Tenna stuff so it at least moved the story along. Anything I'm missing?
 
Is it just a matter of time, Sharona?
Is it j-just destiny, d-destiny
Or is it just a game in my mind, Sharona?

Part 5 // Chapter 5. Flowery is Giorno, There's a narrative parallel to Dio taking over Jonathan's body, to Asriel using Chara's soul. If Flowery is Giorno then he could be the byproduct or spawn of the redeemed Asriel from Undertale.

Kris parallels Diavolo and King Crimson with time shenanigans. His red devil horns which constitute Ralsei, and his multiple personalities in one body.

Yellow can control his bullets like Hol Horse, and keeps spouting about justice, which isn't his stand name but is still a tarot card.
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My autism is most triggered by the blue tranny ballet dancer. Because it's a tranny ballet dancer: the most conservative, rigid, stuck-in-its-ways part of the dance industry. Blue was definitely designed by someone with no knowledge in, or interest in researching, classical dance. Ballet has been unchanged since the 1700s -- you know, that period of culture all about the inherent beauty of the female and male physique, and their gorgeous differences?

Ballet is religiously binary in terms of men and women and their roles onstage. All moves, poses and actions are split into male and female. There are techniques women only specilise in due to women having different weight distribution in their figures, being more bottom heavy, longer legs, as well as having better fine motor skills. Same with men with being more top heavy, as well the increased strength and explosive power in male jumps. Why do I care so much?

Ballet puts a spotlight on the human physique. The tranny's worst nightmare. Even the few tranny ballet dancers that exist must adhere to either a male role or a female role and basically break their bodies to fit into either one.

Because ballet is an artform that celebrates the beautiful shape of the human body in space, hence all the poses they do. To be the best ballet dancer, you have to be a prime specimen in your gender role. You literally cannot be a professional ballet dancer without being born right. You either have the right body, or you don't. You either train your body from a young age to form the textbook arm and leg lines developed over centuries, or you can't. Ballet is the foundation of all dance. And also the most conservative as a result. There is no fucking gender spectrum in ballet.

tl;dr: REEEEEEEEEEEEE
 
Because ballet is an artform that celebrates the beautiful shape of the human body in space, hence all the poses they do. To be the best ballet dancer, you have to be a prime specimen in your gender role. You literally cannot be a professional ballet dancer without being born right. You either have the right body, or you don't. You either train your body from a young age to form the textbook arm and leg lines developed over centuries, or you can't. Ballet is the foundation of all dance. And also the most conservative as a result. There is no fucking gender spectrum in ballet.
Your post prompted me to check out the wikipedia ballet page and I found this snippet at the end.
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I thought it was funny that for every single thing on the earth there's some faggot ready to write a screed about how problematic it is.
 
If my magnum opus was this close to being realised and I needed to rely on others to help finish it in a timely manner, there'd be blood on the keyboard before I'd allow a single fucking thing close to "just good" into the final product, let alone anything bad.

It's not just me, right? The dialog felt bipolar at times. I'm not sucking Toby Fox's dick here, but at least he's consistent in his flaws and strengths across projects. Chapter 5's dialog and character beats stumbled in ways that were not very Fox-like. It reeks of other hands. Other, manly hands with bright nail polish.
 
Your post prompted me to check out the wikipedia ballet page and I found this snippet at the end.
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I thought it was funny that for every single thing on the earth there's some faggot ready to write a screed about how problematic it is.
And as per usual, there's some vague complaint but nothing specific. I have ballet dancer friends. Most of the men are gay, but they are men. And the women are too busy being top athletes to give a shit about what a progressive thinks about their absolutely gay director/choreographer being strict with their artistic vision.
 
Tourist here and I am genuinely curious. Were people actually expecting something else? Undertale, as I understand it, was just teen-drama-tier writing with some wacky shit tacked on. So considering this is all the same isn't surprising to me at least.
People were fine with the teen drama because it was consistent and relatively charming. Its not that the game was a masterpiece of writing, most of the plot is "random bullshit happens because its so DEEP and so MYSTERIOUS and LOOK AT THIS BOX and PLEASE MAKE FIFTY ESSAYS ABOUT HOW DEEP OUR LORE IS", but the two main characters (Kris and Susie) had a fun complimentary chemistry with how they reacted to the random bullshit happening on screen. They weren't part of the wacky nonsense, they were reacting to it, often in novel, amusing, and complimentary ways.

The last chapter basically just erased susie's character and 4 entire chapters of setup and history and replaced it with an entirely seperate one that has nothing to do with the susie of the past 4 chapters just to try and shoehorn in the writer's yuri fetish because he wanted to pair her with a secondary character that is presented as probably more one note than everyone else put toogether, with 90% of her thoughts being "I wonder what susie would think of this."

Basically the 1 part of the writing that's actually good was ruined in the latest chapter.
 
My autism is most triggered by the blue tranny ballet dancer.
Its not a tranny, its a niggerfaggot.
tl;dr: REEEEEEEEEEEEE
You know, I am a plant nerd, and I was about to make a whole spergout about why I fucking despise tony cuck for not taking the opportunity to give us a name to the golden flower.
And I mean an actual latin name for the Species, plus 8 subspecies for each flower in the basement + a missing red flower for the sake of jerking off undertale players.

Even a made-up name that gives no information aside of visual appearance would have worked, something lile "Pseudo-anemone Grandiflora", which would have been so fucking fitting: it looks like an Anemone (ranunculacea, single flower on a clean stem) and the flower is huge.
Where people actually expecting something else?
If you want my full take: tricky tony has been a faggot for decades, but he was always able to put a good story and characters that were at the very least inoffensive, rather than make them look exactly as if a cuckhold overdosing in soy wrote and designed them.

This chapter doesn't feels like that, its almost as if he had a soygasm while temmie was getting fucked by Mister Popo in the room next to him, it doesn't help the fact that, in general, the whole chapter is massively bloated, and the only thing that wasn't stretched thin were the 7 flower chatacters, out of them only 1 is actually fun, another is insufferable but by purpose, as you are meant to hate him, while the rest ranges from an inoffensive gender-confused blobs to a literal niggerfaggot.
 
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Undertale, as I understand it, was just teen-drama-tier writing with some wacky shit tacked on. So considering this is all the same isn't surprising to me at least.
also generally a tourist, but i've played both UT and DR(not extensively, probably some kind of neutral-route chud in both games) and yeah, my expectations are generally low for this kind of stuff.
seems to have ARG-level deeplore shit that you need to be hyper-aware of in order to get the "full story" or "true ending" - I enjoy these the same way I enjoy other liberal indieshit projects, from a distance and at a shallow level.

toby obviously has really odd sensibilities that are informed by troons, discord humor, and weebshit. undertale was good despite that, deltarune seems to be suffering from "the author's barely-disguised shit taste" and is heavily devolving into shipping and teenage gaydrama while basically doing the same thing every chapter - that being "the plot progresses at the beginning and end, meanwhile here's three hours of rick and morty characters you have to tard-wrangle" - cool, i guess, but you've got two games left to drop kino lmao.
 
You know, I am a plant nerd, and I was about to make a whole spergout about why I fucking despise tony cuck for not taking the opportunity to give us a name to the golden flower.
And I mean an actual latin name for the Species, plus 8 subspecies for each flower in the basement + a missing red flower for the sake of jerking off undertale players.

Even a made-up name that gives no information aside of visual appearance would have worked, something lile "Pseudo-anemone Grandiflora", which would have been so fucking fitting: it looks like an Anemone (ranunculacea, single flower on a clean stem) and the flower is huge.
I love that shit in stories. There's the concept of head voice vs heart voice in writing. Heart is appealing emotionally to your readers/viewers through characters, while Head is teaching them something that is factually true. Both are necessary for reader/viewer engagement.

Just Googled ranunculacea. Interesting stuff -- got some bedtime reading.
 
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