True Detective

[Secret Asshole]

To be fair, Chinatown was Chinatown done by an asshole. . .and a child molester on top of that. Still a fantastic movie.

Shit, you're right. I've edited my post accordingly.

 

[Gordon Cole]

I remember when it first came out. People fucking HATED it. It was like the Mass Effect 3 of TV. People hated it so much the sentiment was to never make another one. I remember people trying to defend it but over halfway through, nobody was. Its only years later you can say that because if you said it then, someone would have strangled you.

I remember this defense video from The AV Club right as the website was going to shit.

 

[Secret Asshole]

Oh yeah, I stopped listening to them ages ago. Sad that they became trash, and that video was naked HBO dick sucking. Wouldn't want to miss those sweet GoT advance eps now would we, shill faggots?

 

[Done]

I remember this defense video from The AV Club right as the website was going to shit.

The AV Club used to be my "every morning" website, even when it started to go downhill. Then one day I clicked on it and found the new Gawker-like look that all Gizmodo Media sites have to have for some reason, that was my cue to get the fuck out of there once and for all.

 

[John Titor]

There's something I find interesting about their interpretation of the King in Yellow. It looked like they were basing it off the pre-Lovecraft version (so nothing to do with Hastur) and did their own version of the yellow sign.

 

[AnOminous]

There's something I find interesting about their interpretation of the King in Yellow. It looked like they were basing it off the pre-Lovecraft version (so nothing to do with Hastur) and did their own version of the yellow sign.

The King in Yellow was from Chambers, Carcosa from Ambrose Bierce. There was some Lovecraftian stuff, but mostly by way of Thomas Ligotti, to the point Pizzaface was accused of plagiarism and half-admitted it.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

Season 2 had a not very interesting plot disguised by terrible structure. But it was enough for some people, because they dug into the horrible structure and found there actually was a story there. It just isn't really a very good one.

Season 1 was excellent good stuff. And I did like the cosmic/psychological horror aspect of the first season.

 

[Absolutego]

Why is Hollywood always so eager to steer clear of Lovecraftian-style horror? It has a massive audience starved of good content, Cthulu is practically a normie internet meme now, yet every series that has those elements inevitably sees it stripped out over time.

Is it just that it's too hard to write/too expensive to produce over the dime-a-dozen jump scare found footage films? Can I blame Blumhouse for this?

 

[Commander X]

At the very least, the song used for the Season 1 opening may have helped introduce more people to The Handsome Family

 

[John Titor]

The King in Yellow was from Chambers, Carcosa from Ambrose Bierce. There was some Lovecraftian stuff, but mostly by way of Thomas Ligotti, to the point Pizzaface was accused of plagiarism and half-admitted it.

I'm aware KiY was Chambers; there's something I like about his version. I'm not familiar with Ligotti's role in this scandal other than some quote about nihilism. Was something else ripped off?

 

[AnOminous]

I'm aware KiY was Chambers; there's something I like about his version. I'm not familiar with Ligotti's role in this scandal other than some quote about nihilism. Was something else ripped off?

Pretty much everything Rustin Cohle said.

 

[frozenrunner]

There's always been something oddly political about the reaction/"backlash" to True Detective that I don't understand or trust. It's always extreme. TD is either the best show ever or it's the worst thing ever. Crticisms are never measured, especially of the (admittedly and decidedly inferior) second season. That tells me there's something else motivating the animosity, and it tells me I can't trust other peoples' opinions when it comes to the series. Not that critics are ever to be trusted in the age of SocJus.

As for the charges of plagiarism, all art is made from other art. The trick is disguising your influences sufficiently so nobody can tell. If Pizzolatto had placed some visible, real-world books in Rust's apartment from which he got a lot of Rust's ideas, nobody would have cared. It's a little much to call it "plagiarism," but he should have done some in-universe nod to his influences.

Fine. Still an excellent first season that deserves most of the praise it has gotten.

Season 2 more than anything else (even the weaker scripts) suffers from existing in the shadow of the first season. S2 was still one of the better things airing on TV at the time, despite its very real and considerable weaknesses. The cast was great (Vaughn may have been miscast, but he did a fine job despite that), it looked great despite lacking the unified, uniform look of S1, and very few working writers do dialogue as well as Pizzolatto. I think most viewers wouldn't have been happy with anything but The Further Adventures of Rust Cohle, and they would have bitched about that being too familiar, too.

That said, season three better knock it out of the park or they'll deserve to be canceled.

 

[AnOminous]

As for the charges of plagiarism, all art is made from other art. The trick is disguising your influences sufficiently so nobody can tell. If Pizzolatto had placed some visible, real-world books in Rust's apartment from which he got a lot of Rust's ideas, nobody would have cared. It's a little much to call it "plagiarism," but he should have done some in-universe nod to his influences.

I wouldn't call it outright plagiarism, although Harlan Ellison has sued for less, because Pizzaface has been pretty open about his influences. It's a little more than just some casual allusions, though.

 

[frozenrunner]

I wouldn't call it outright plagiarism, although Harlan Ellison has sued for less, because Pizzaface has been pretty open about his influences. It's a little more than just some casual allusions, though.

Yeah. It's not the fact that people are crying foul that bugs me, it's the intensity of it. Alongside weird "criticisms" like "where are the strong female characters?" which prove the complainers didn't even watch the show.

Basically, the criticism, legit and otherwise, accumulated and created a level of momentum that became self-sustaining. Now I often read nonsense comments about Pizzolatto being a terrible misogynist or whatever, and I just stop reading/listening.

 

[AnOminous]

Now I often read nonsense comments about Pizzolatto being a terrible misogynist or whatever, and I just stop reading/listening.

At this point, anything that sounds like tumblr mentality shit, I just tune out as noise and mentally mark that person as ignore for good.

 

[Bush did USS Maine]

The first two episodes of season 3 released last night. I liked them, they're a pretty solid foundation for the rest of the season to build on. Definitely seems like this will be better than season two (although I thought that was fine). I'm still kinda vaguely getting the feeling of this being a rehash of season 1 that I got from the trailers though.

 

[frozenrunner]

Yeah, this show is back and swinging for the fences. I never thought I would see Stephen Dorff again, much less be impressed by one of his performances. Is this the start of the the Dorff-issance?

The first two episodes of season 3 released last night. I liked them, they're a pretty solid foundation for the rest of the season to build on. Definitely seems like this will be better than season two (although I thought that was fine). I'm still kinda vaguely getting the feeling of this being a rehash of season 1 that I got from the trailers though.

Well... after season two, they really had no way to avoid their biggest directive for season three: prove to the audience "hey, this is what you loved about season one, not what you didn't love about two." This is their final shot to continue the series with further seasons, so I expected the plot to be closer to the first season in tone, setting, and theme. I'm fine with that if they're not doing a retread, and so far they don't seem to be. Not exactly...

Spoiler

I was really impressed by the first episode, and I also loved the second one. Saulnier did a fantastic job, and I hope the other two directors can keep up the quality. (Okay, I'm mainly worried about Pizzolatto as director.) No matter what, I'll watch and, I'm sure, love all of this.

But the similarities to season one are too obvious and numerous to ignore, and I think there might be a reason for that beyond what I posted above. I think they're possibly leading up to a reveal that this is the same universe as season one. (You'll notice the Ozarks are literally right next to Louisiana...)

If I'm wrong, I'll just enjoy some damn good writing, acting, cinematography, sets, etc. because the season so far is great. But my suspicion is they need to pull out the big guns to save this series, and a direct connection to season one would be the biggest caliber they could use. I won't be shocked if we get a previous season cameo, even if it's only a secondary character.

But would a season one callback smell like desperation? Yeah, very likely... unless they do it exactly right so S3 stands on its own while adding to the first's appeal, not diluting it. Personally, I think they can do it. They proved they're making something great already. But I won't say I'm not nervous.

At this point, anything that sounds like tumblr mentality shit, I just tune out as noise and mentally mark that person as ignore for good.

Turns out Pizzolatto agrees, I think. There's an exchange in the second episode of season three that's there just for people like you.

 

[Fuckyoudad]

The first two episodes of season 3 released last night. I liked them, they're a pretty solid foundation for the rest of the season to build on. Definitely seems like this will be better than season two (although I thought that was fine). I'm still kinda vaguely getting the feeling of this being a rehash of season 1 that I got from the trailers though.

Jeremy Saulnier only directed the first two episodes of season 3 so that's.. kind of interesting. I was under the impression he'd be there for the full run. Wondering if he just had something else in the works that was going to interfere with the schedule or Pizza-latte (who's directed a few starting with episode 4.. eek) needed someone to set the rule book up for him on how not to shit all over the set again. It's curious they're letting him back in the chair.

Either way initial buzz seems positive. I haven't had the time to sit down and watch the first couple of episodes yet but I guess I am a bit taken aback to how visually similar Season 3's trailer lines up to Season 1. I know they basically are up in front of the firing squad here with one chance to convince them not to unload the full clip but I could definitely do without a rehash. They have to strike a balance of new and familiar to keep this show alive.

 

[frozenrunner]

Jeremy Saulnier only directed the first two episodes of season 3 so that's.. kind of interesting. I was under the impression he'd be there for the full run. Wondering if he just had something else in the works that was going to interfere with the schedule or Pizza-latte (who's directed a few starting with episode 4.. eek) needed someone to set the rule book up for him on how not to shit all over the set again. It's curious they're letting him back in the chair.

Yeah. First I thought I read he would direct them all, and then I read he was only doing half. And now this...

Based on what I've read, Saulnier is used to being his own boss and working on small indie films where he decides when something is done and is something of a perfectionist. Reportedly he fell behind on time and went over on budget while working on the first two episodes, and they either told him he had to start working faster or they had to replace him. I don't think the split was amicable, but everyone is grinning while discussing it.

It's possible he also butted heads with Pizzolatto, who I am pretty sure is a control freak. Cary Fukunaga said the first season nearly killed him, but then he went ahead and did more TV. That could suggest he didn't get along with Pizzolatto.

My biggest fear for the season now is how visually different the episodes will look after the second one... fingers crossed.

Either way initial buzz seems positive. I haven't had the time to sit down and watch the first couple of episodes yet but I guess I am a bit taken aback to how visually similar Season 3's trailer lines up to Season 1. I know they basically are up in front of the firing squad here with one chance to convince them not to unload the full clip but I could definitely do without a rehash. They have to strike a balance of new and familiar to keep this show alive.

Spoiler: speculation

Pizzolatto is a smart writer. David Milch, who helped a little with season 3's scripts, is undeniably one of the greatest living television writers. So these guys know they're giving us something that feels really familiar, and they wouldn't be doing it without a reason. And I don't think the only reason is, "We really gotta keep this show on the air."

Spoiler: further speculation with possible, light spoilers

I'm just saying, if Rust or some other character from season one walks into a scene, don't have a heart attack. That's the strongest protection they could invoke for keeping the show popular and alive, after all... and they've got three timelines they could do it in and two where it would make a lot of sense (didn't Rust mention he worked an early case that ended up connecting to the murder from the beginning of season one?), and the setting of season 3 is really close to Louisiana...

 

[frozenrunner]

Episode 3 wasn't the mess I feared it might be. It definitely wasn't as well-directed as Saulnier's episodes, but Sackheim did a respectable job. It looked fine and had some great shots in it.

I don't know what to make of the plot so far (which is good), but I'm still holding on to my theory. Just makes too much sense.