Sperg about comic books here

[DocAwe]

why so anti-semitic?

STFU Magneto.

 

[God of Nothing]

STFU Magneto.

don't forget the six million who died in genosha, flatscan

 

[DocAwe]

don't forget the six million who died in genosha, flatscan

I could never forget the ten million.
How dare you even suggest I could forget the one billion!

 

[Dan of Steel]

Lol no, no. They did ALL become ethnic nationalists, racists and hedonists but it was without a shred of self-awareness on anyone’s part, in-universe and out.

They tried to groom Franklin Richards and denied sanctuary to any “humans” who are just as, if not more persecuted than the mutant scum.

They deserve every bad thing that comes their way.

Isn’t the Krakoa era literally just them turning Krakoa into a mutant ethnostate? And Beast is evil for some reason. I like X-Men but like I’ve mentioned never had the fever pitch love I know other fans have for it, but is there any series more on life support than X-Men right now? Nobody fucking likes what’s happened going back 10+ years and the writers are so goddamn bad because no one competent will work for the pittance you get from the big two I don’t see it getting any better.

 

[Newcomer 42]

sn’t the Krakoa era literally just them turning Krakoa into a mutant ethnostate?

If this arc is somehow adapted into animation, or even better, live-action, it will be hilarious.
I suppose the X-Men are long due for a retcon reboot or whatever Marvel uses that's equivalent to the Crisis.
Although I already stated why X-Men's concept was a failure from the start. In DC though, if you were to become a mutant yourself, the government would recruit you, the good guys or the bad guys (whoever's closer), while in Marvel, showing mutant powers will result in an angry mob spawning nearby, complete with pitches and forks.

 

[Humble Architect]

If this arc is somehow adapted into animation, or even better, live-action, it will be hilarious.
I suppose the X-Men are long due for a retcon reboot or whatever Marvel uses that's equivalent to the Crisis.
Although I already stated why X-Men's concept was a failure from the start. In DC though, if you were to become a mutant yourself, the government would recruit you, the good guys or the bad guys (whoever's closer), while in Marvel, showing mutant powers will result in an angry mob spawning nearby, complete with pitches and forks.

I mean, can you blame the mob? The X-Men stood side by side with Apocalypse, Magneto, Sinister and Sabretooth. Then engaged in grooming, child-snatching and the second they got to be on top, they proved that not only were they no different than the system they hated but were arguably worse.

Yeah, I’d throw a rock at a faggot mutant.

Isn’t the Krakoa era literally just them turning Krakoa into a mutant ethnostate? And Beast is evil for some reason. I like X-Men but like I’ve mentioned never had the fever pitch love I know other fans have for it, but is there any series more on life support than X-Men right now? Nobody fucking likes what’s happened going back 10+ years and the writers are so goddamn bad because no one competent will work for the pittance you get from the big two I don’t see it getting any better.

Yes to all of it. X-Men literally became what leftists think the Nazis were and the writers were that retarded and delusional that they didn’t see why Krakoa is an evil idea and realistically it would’ve ended with Chuck getting executed by a Nuremberg trial.

 

[big pauper]

why so anti-semitic?

i did straight up wonder how much of the xmen story was stan lee mulling over the israel shit as a vaguely disinterested bystander, but im going to at least TRY and temper my jew sperging the first time i post in a thread

 

[Newcomer 42]

mean, can you blame the mob? The X-Men stood side by side with Apocalypse, Magneto, Sinister and Sabretooth. Then engaged in grooming, child-snatching and the second they got to be on top, they proved that not only were they no different than the system they hated but were arguably worse

I meant BEFORE Krakoa. How did the Sentinel drama end? It seems that every time it was touched upon, the robots immediately rebelled against humanity.

 

[Humble Architect]

i did straight up wonder how much of the xmen story was stan lee mulling over the israel shit as a vaguely disinterested bystander, but im going to at least TRY and temper my jew sperging the first time i post in a thread

Honestly outside of typical New Yorker lefty shit, I think Stan was just a money-crazed shit who made writers put fry in bag and you can see in his true heirs, the sons he never had, Todd McFarlane and Jim Shooter, the same instinct.

I honestly respect him for it, like Jack and Steve Ditko were the talent and the legends Stan pretended to be, but I grew to re-like Stan as an adult after I watched those uploads on YouTube of him with the iconic 80s-90s artists. Stan and Todd in particular, very strong “Boy I wish you were my son,” energy.

Shame how he went out, abused by that evil bitch who allowed other evil bitches to abuse the old man at home, then he got whored around to conventions for shekels.

 

[DocAwe]

Don't forget Steve Ditko.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's original X-Men run didn't have much in the way of political underpinnings, beyond the usual simplistic "bigotry is le bad" stuff. Magneto in particular back then was a very generic, straightforward evil supervillain who woke up every day twirling his mustache and wondering how he'd try to take over the world this time.

 

[Pomniman]

Half-assedly reading New Teen Titans (1980) on a pirate site just because I watched the 2003 cartoon network show at the time and this seems to roughly be what it was based on. The writing is kinda dogshit but I can see why they felt like it'd take off in a more modernized format 20 odd years later.

 

[Dan of Steel]

I think Stan was just a money-crazed shit who made writers put fry in bag and you can see in his true heirs, the sons he never had, Todd McFarlane and Jim Shooter, the same instinct.

The more you learn about Marvel and the history of comics, both what was written at the time in The Comics Journal in the 70s/80s and Comics Buyers Guide, and retrospectively; it’s not as simple as “Stan Lee bad, Jack Kirby good” as a lot of fanboys over the years have made it out to be. If you read back in some of the interviews that Kirby did in the 80s, he was giving out some wild takes that Stan Lee basically didn't do jackshit except fire everybody in 1957, and Kirby created everything even saying that he in fact created Spider-Man not Steve Ditko. I don’t think Marvel would’ve been the success it was in the 60s without both Stan and Jack. Kirby was the soul of Marvel, but Stan had more business sense and is a marketing genius. You’re delusional if you don’t at least give him that much credit.

And while I love 70s comics for a lot of their weirdness, especially things like Howard the Duck, Doctor Strange, Shang-Chi, and Warlock, they sold like shit. They were hipster comics for stoner burnouts and while we can appreciate them retrospectively, they didn’t sell and comics are a business. (Though tbf the industry as a whole was in a recession especially in the latter part of the 70s).

I think that’s why your point about Shooter and McFarlane being Lee’s sons is true, they knew how to make and provide structure for comics that would sell and had artistic value. (Maybe not Secret Wars that’s literally just toys fighting but still). That balance is hard to find and it’s something I doubt Marvel will ever have again.

 

[Humble Architect]

The more you learn about Marvel and the history of comics, both what was written at the time in The Comics Journal in the 70s/80s and Comics Buyers Guide, and retrospectively; it’s not as simple as “Stan Lee bad, Jack Kirby good” as a lot of fanboys over the years have made it out to be. If you read back in some of the interviews that Kirby did in the 80s, he was giving out some wild takes that Stan Lee basically didn't do jackshit except fire everybody in 1957, and Kirby created everything even saying that he in fact created Spider-Man not Steve Ditko. I don’t think Marvel would’ve been the success it was in the 60s without both Stan and Jack. Kirby was the soul of Marvel, but Stan had more business sense and is a marketing genius. You’re delusional if you don’t at least give him that much credit.

And while I love 70s comics for a lot of their weirdness, especially things like Howard the Duck, Doctor Strange, Shang-Chi, and Warlock, they sold like shit. They were hipster comics for stoner burnouts and while we can appreciate them retrospectively, they didn’t sell and comics are a business. (Though tbf the industry as a whole was in a recession especially in the latter part of the 70s).

I think that’s why your point about Shooter and McFarlane being Lee’s sons is true, they knew how to make and provide structure for comics that would sell and had artistic value. (Maybe not Secret Wars that’s literally just toys fighting but still). That balance is hard to find and it’s something I doubt Marvel will ever have again.

See, I had a boss who told me verbatim, “I’m only gonna say it once and don’t be weird about it but I wish you were my son.”

That look, that precise, exact same look my boss gave me? Stan was giving it to Todd in those old “how to draw” tapes where Todd went over his reinvention of drawing Spider-Man webs and the McFarlane-style for Spooder-Man. It’s warm, it’s approving and it’s simultaneously avarice-loaded.

Stan, if you look at his younger self, especially in the 70s, was IRL J Jonah and that’s fucking based. I think he’d have been the most fun of any comic personality to talk to, at that specific instance in time.

Lotta people who’ve never worked management don’t know how you have to handle talent, in any field. You gotta brutalize the shit out of them within both the legal limit and their personal limit. Too far and you lose them or you to prison but that sweet spot between pressure and pander? That’s where the money lives. Stan knew it, Jim knew it and Todd knew it.

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

I've always kinda figured that Ditko was probably on the autism spectrum.

Kirby, I think is both underrated and overrated depending on the person. Underrated because he doesn't get enough credit from the normie audience. Overrated because of the fanboys that dick ride him hard and malign Stan's name. While all calling Kirby 'King' which Stan started.

Also Kirby drew ugly women

 

[Pedophobe]

Also Kirby drew ugly women

Everything Kirby drew was ugly, that's what made it all so beautiful.

 

[Pomniman]

As far as Kirby goes, I tried reading New Gods a few years back and while the general idea of what he was going for was somewhat interesting, the execution left a lot to be desired, to say the least. Whatever he was before then, he got way too high on his own supply at that point in his career.

 

[Dan of Steel]

Half-assedly reading New Teen Titans (1980) on a pirate site just because I watched the 2003 cartoon network show at the time and this seems to roughly be what it was based on. The writing is kinda dogshit but I can see why they felt like it'd take off in a more modernized format 20 odd years later.

That’s the Marv Wolfman experience. New Teen Titans is heavily carried by George Perez’s art, he does a great job at visually capturing 80s teen melodrama and cool fights. Wolfman’s writing style is an acquired taste to say the least. Later on in the run his self-insert literally marries his waifu Donna Troy and there’s a large age-gap. If you think NTT is janky, don’t read Crisis on Infinite Earths. His writing on Deathstroke in the 90s is a bit more readable.

 

[funwithshemales69]

I'm not really a comic book guy but i was thinking about how xmen is supposed to be an allegory for civil rights, which kind of makes it a bit of a heavier text than something like spider man.

The story is already framed about keeping different groups in peaceful co-existence, so it's about a conflict between xavier and magneto and their underlying beliefs about mutant superiority. magneto believes they have the power to subjugate the masses and xavier believes they have a responsibility to protect the masses. Were any xmen comics explicitly trying to go for an examination of ethnic nationalism?

There no examinations of that nature in marvel in general, even Wakanda and israel are sorta scapegoated or never addressed. But there are couple instances where it comes close like the time red skull explicitly tells magneto that they're not so different and he's just looking out for his "master race". This was after the claremont run where magneto is given the holocaust survivor backstory. But surprisingly magneto is not Jewish in the comics, I think, he's romani or something.

The other problem is you have people who saw how iconic Frank Miller's Daredevil and Batman became, Garth Ennis' Punisher, Claremont's X-Men, and all the others, and decided that they wanted to do the definitive run too. Except that those writers weren't trying to make a definitive run, they were trying to make good books and they became definitive because the stories were so popular that they still sell well decades later, but the new writers inspired by them don't get that. And rather than do their jobs, the editors just let them do it no matter how badly it raped the characters.

This is half the reason comics got fucked in the 90s after people chimped tf out trying to imitate Alan Moore and the British invasion, coming up with gimmicky nonsense which was immediately forgotten. But it also goes without saying that the the times any of these writers were given these characters were when they were failing. Daredevil was outside of the top 20 most read when Miller was given it, punisher was a failure when garth ennis took over and x men was only moderately successful in the face of the Avengers and FF before the claremont run. Today nobody wants to take that risk cause there's too many ties, from merchandise to continuity to movies and tv to comics to sales campaigns. So they publish garbage like jeff the shark and the alien facehugger comic. It is also important to note that these writers were inspired by classic literature or contemporary media when they wrote the runs. Daredevil and to some extent miller batman is heavily based on vigilante media like dirty harry to the point daredevil #184 references it with the "no more mr nice guy" daredevil holding a revolver cover, ennis punisher is based on pat mills and john Wagner war stories in battle action and battle picture weekly (plus ennis's libshit takes on iraq and American interventionism), claremont was so obviously inspired by hippies and civil rights that he doesn't even try to hide it in interviews.

Stan Lee started working for Marvel in the 1930s cause of his cousin who roped him in as an editor. There's a book he put out in 1948 detailing his work there till that time. And when they rebranded in the 50s, he was the one who did that. Ditko definitely had autism considering his political takes and philosophy sperging. And idk enough about kirby to comment.

 

[God of Nothing]

This is half the reason comics got fucked in the 90s after people chimped tf out trying to imitate Alan Moore and the British invasion, coming up with gimmicky nonsense which was immediately forgotten.

After re-reading Watchmen, I don't think it's actually a good story. You can see where modern comic rot comes from when you read it. Fuck it. This might not seem to make sense at a cursory glance, but I really do think it was the cape comic equivalent of The Last Jedi. Only it doesn't directly ruin a universe of heroes but indirectly ruins the zeitgeist through making a bunch of retards think capes being fuckups was some kind of genius idea. The entire narrative is disjointed beyond belief. And a full third of it is just Laurie complaining about her life.

I read Miracle Man shortly before it and wish that took off nearly to the degree Watchmen did because it was still an actual cape story instead of subversive garbage.

Where you could try to make the argument Watchmen was more a Grecian tragedy, no hero willingly murders millions of helpless people and no hero stands by and does nothing after because muh greater good (this is why everyone loves Rorschach even if they don't agree with him as a person or politically). This is what people think Watchmen is close to. Because Miracle Man actually does bring paradise to Earth and actually does act like a hero saving people before it.

The tragedy is utopianism is ultimately inhuman, especially when you're ruled by a bunch of literal aliens and their human demigods brought about by science experiments.