Retro games and emulation - Discuss retro shit in case you're stuck in the past or a hipster

[Captain Quazar]

Does anyone else realize the fact that the N64 has very few shoot ‘em ups? I don’t mean FPSs. Here’s a list of the ones that I know of.

- Star Fox 64
- Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth
- Sin & Punishment
- Aero Fighters Assault
- Dezaemon 3D (more of a shmup maker but it includes a few built-in ones as samples)
- Knife Edge: Nose Gunner
- Viewpoint 2064 (unreleased)

 

[Samuel Fuller]

Does anyone else realize the fact that the N64 has very few shoot ‘em ups? I don’t mean FPSs. Here’s a list of the ones that I know of.

- Star Fox 64
- Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth
- Sin & Punishment
- Aero Fighters Assault
- Dezaemon 3D (more of a shmup maker but it includes a few built-in ones as samples)
- Knife Edge: Nose Gunner
- Viewpoint 2064 (unreleased)

Because the machine was a slow piece of shit that didn't have the ability to handle sprites well.

What is the common feature of all those games you listed? They used polygonal graphics instead of sprites.

Another factor is that the Saturn's sister arcade system, the Titan, was actually the platform most of the SHMUPs released around that period were made for and porting from Saturn to anything else was too painful for the sales an N64 port might possibly bring in. Saturn outsold the N64 in Japan by a good margin.

 

[Baraka Obama]

Does anyone else realize the fact that the N64 has very few shoot ‘em ups? I don’t mean FPSs. Here’s a list of the ones that I know of.

- Star Fox 64
- Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth
- Sin & Punishment
- Aero Fighters Assault
- Dezaemon 3D (more of a shmup maker but it includes a few built-in ones as samples)
- Knife Edge: Nose Gunner
- Viewpoint 2064 (unreleased)

It has very few RPGs, fighting games, strategy games, beat 'em ups, puzzle, and adventure games too.

Most of those were just seen as dead genres in the move to 3D in the late 90s. RPGs are an exception, that made a better move to 3D but along the way did so more with heavy use of FMVs which needed CDs.

 

[Jason_Cruiser]

Does anyone else realize the fact that the N64 has very few shoot ‘em ups? I don’t mean FPSs. Here’s a list of the ones that I know of.

- Star Fox 64
- Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth
- Sin & Punishment
- Aero Fighters Assault
- Dezaemon 3D (more of a shmup maker but it includes a few built-in ones as samples)
- Knife Edge: Nose Gunner
- Viewpoint 2064 (unreleased)

Even though the 5th gen was still strong on shmups, they were a dying genre at that point. The games still coming out were quite low-budget, and the few high-budget shmups being released did poorly in comparison to the budget (Thunder Force V). Nintendo was strict on the minimum number of games you had to manufacture, and the cost per unit was like $20(disks were only a few). Aside from the worse profit margins per sale, the strict batch limits made it much more likley to have unsold stock lying around, making the n64 unviable for low-budget games that might only make around 50-80k in sales. You also have to remember where the N64 was popular. Shmups were mostly a Jap phenomenon, and the N64 was the worst-selling console of its generation in Japan.

 

[Captain Quazar]

RPGs are an exception, that made a better move to 3D but along the way did so more with heavy use of FMVs which needed CDs.

At least two of the N64’s few RPGs, Paper Mario and Ogre Battle 64, are actually really legit great. Quest 64 is rather doo doo from what I’ve heard.

Because the machine was a slow piece of shit that didn't have the ability to handle sprites well.

What is the common feature of all those games you listed? They used polygonal graphics instead of sprites.

Hmm, didn’t know that the N64 sucked at handling many sprites. Now that I think about it, it would be interesting to see what 2D N64 games like Mischief Makers would be like if they utilized polygons instead of sprites. That game is really underrated.

 

[Samuel Fuller]

At least two of the N64’s few RPGs, Paper Mario and Ogre Battle 64, are actually really legit great. Quest 64 is rather doo doo from what I’ve heard.


Hmm, didn’t know that the N64 sucked at handling many sprites. Now that I think about it, it would be interesting to see what 2D N64 games like Mischief Makers would be like if they utilized polygons instead of sprites. That game is really underrated.

Nintendo used a CPU designed by Silicon Graphics, Incorporated. SGI had no interest in 2D anything, so the chip wasn't made for it. Nintendo forced a lower clock speed on the chip vs the original design to be able to make them cheaper due to less binning occurring on a slower chip.

Put those two factors together, and you are not going to get much 2D content made. Most of the games with 2-dimensional gameplay were made using 3D assets on the system, and the shit clock speed is why so many N64 games can't ever reliably hit 20 FPS, let alone anything close to fluidity. It's hilarious that even putting the stripped-out half of the RAM back via the Expansion PAk only seemed to make things even worse on most of the games that could support it.

The N64's hardware was just complete garbage.

 

[Captain Quazar]

Most of the games with 2-dimensional gameplay were made using 3D assets on the system, and the shit clock speed is why so many N64 games can't ever reliably hit 20 FPS, let alone anything close to fluidity.

F-Zero X is one of those rare cases where it runs pretty darn smoothly on the N64 though. I am genuinely curious as to how it runs so good for N64 standards.

The N64's hardware was just complete garbage.

Yeah, it may have been, but I just love a good chunk of the games on it anyway.

It's hilarious that even putting the stripped-out half of the RAM back via the Expansion PAk only seemed to make things even worse on most of the games that could support it.

Yep, you would get widescreen and higher quality texture options, but even worse framerates as a result. You were better off just not using those features unless you wanted to experiment I guess.

Also regarding the Expansion Pak, I read that Donkey Kong 64 can technically be played without it via a bit of tinkering. I wonder if that applies to Majora’s Mask and the full Perfect Dark experience as well.

 

[Samuel Fuller]

F-Zero X is one of those rare cases where it runs pretty darn smoothly on the N64 though. I am genuinely curious as to how it runs so good for N64 standards.


Yeah, it may have been, but I just love a good chunk of the games on it anyway.


Yep, you would get widescreen and higher quality texture options, but even worse framerates as a result. You were better off just not using those features unless you wanted to experiment I guess.

Also regarding the Expansion Pak, I read that Donkey Kong 64 can technically be played without it via a bit of tinkering. I wonder if that applies to Majora’s Mask and the full Perfect Dark experience as well.

Majora’s Mask and Perfect Dark absolutely require the expanded RAM.

F-Zero X runs as smoothly as it does because the graphics are extremely streamlined. Shaded polygons and almost no textures, and the ships have as few as six surfaces. The game is basically pushing very simple boxes around the map.

 

[Captain Quazar]

Majora’s Mask and Perfect Dark absolutely require the expanded RAM.

F-Zero X runs as smoothly as it does because the graphics are extremely streamlined. Shaded polygons and almost no textures, and the ships have as few as six surfaces. The game is basically pushing very simple boxes around the map.

I’m guessing that for Majora’s Mask, it’s mainly in regards to the whole three day system stuff, right?

Nintendo made the right call going simple for F-Zero X then. For a series about high speed futuristic racing it better darn well run fast. I still need to get around to F-Zero GX/AX one day. AX can be played on GameCube and Wii via homebrew stuff, but I don’t really do that kind of stuff personally.

 

[Calandrino]

Anyone claiming that RetroArch is bad is automatically a niggerfaggot to me.

Retroarch is bad

 

[The Orthodox Autist]

Does anyone else realize the fact that the N64 has very few shoot ‘em ups? I don’t mean FPSs. Here’s a list of the ones that I know of.

- Star Fox 64
- Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth
- Sin & Punishment
- Aero Fighters Assault
- Dezaemon 3D (more of a shmup maker but it includes a few built-in ones as samples)
- Knife Edge: Nose Gunner
- Viewpoint 2064 (unreleased)

As much as the graphics chip is great and all the desinger of the chip (silicone graphics) mostly designed it to be a 3d processing power house and not a gaming chip. Besides they were known for their workstations not gaming 3d graphics.

 

[9 IRON TO THE BALLS]

How do I emulate Might and Magic 6? Its confusing

 

[Never Scored]

Does anyone else realize the fact that the N64 has very few shoot ‘em ups? I don’t mean FPSs. Here’s a list of the ones that I know of.

- Star Fox 64
- Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth
- Sin & Punishment
- Aero Fighters Assault
- Dezaemon 3D (more of a shmup maker but it includes a few built-in ones as samples)
- Knife Edge: Nose Gunner
- Viewpoint 2064 (unreleased)

To be honest, it has very few games in general. The Wii U literally has more licensed titles than the N64. Part of it is because it was N64s complicated architecture, part of it was lack of technical support from Nintendo, part of it was how prohibitively expensive carts were. The carts were something like $10 for a developer to buy vs pennies for a PSX CD.

Most people who like N64 like it for the kinds of games it does have. For example, there is nothing like the 3D Zeldas or Banjo Kazooie for PSX with these big open 3d polygonal worlds where you can run from one end to the other without any loading time whatsoever. Closest thing is maybe something like Spyro or Mega Man Legends. Not to throw shade at the PSX library, it has some great games as well, the libraries are just different with most games for N64 being multiplayer focused, and most single player games more focused on early attempts at building expansive 3D worlds than a lot of the PSX titles. The PSX library feels almost like an evolution of the SNES library, while the N64 library feels like a weird, alternate dimension full of experimental 3D stuff that sowed the seeds for the open world stuff crammed into nearly every AAA title today. I think the Castlevania games are a good example. SOTN is an excellent evolution of the 2D series and one of the greatest games of all time. Castlevania 64 is average at best, but it felt very experimental and different from the rest of the series.

F-Zero X is one of those rare cases where it runs pretty darn smoothly on the N64 though. I am genuinely curious as to how it runs so good for N64 standards.

F-Zero X runs fast because it mostly features simple low-poly geometric shapes and flat shading as opposed to complex models and textures.

Mario 64 ran at a pretty consistent 30 fps outside a few areas where it stuttered a bit for the same reason.

It's not that N64 can't maintain a consistent framerate, it can't maintain a consistent framerate when it's pushing its graphical limits.

Also regarding the Expansion Pak, I read that Donkey Kong 64 can technically be played without it via a bit of tinkering. I wonder if that applies to Majora’s Mask and the full Perfect Dark experience as well.

I’m guessing that for Majora’s Mask, it’s mainly in regards to the whole three day system stuff, right?

IIRC it was mostly to improve the draw distance and dynamic lighting in Majora's Mask. Both are noticeably better than OOT.

DK64 requires it for it's dynamic lighting and draw distance as well. The memory leak thing turned out to be an urban legend.

 

[Hentai-Semitism]

How do I emulate Might and Magic 6? Its confusing

Have you tried M&M 6+7+8 Merge? The thread is still active, maybe you can find advice there.

 

[Two Dollars]

Speaking of games being merged together, there’s a rom hack I’ve wanted for years that released a year ago and I didn’t find out about until recently: the Mario Party N64 Combo Mod, which combines the first three Mario Parties into a single game. It’s really held together by duct tape though in the sense that you choose the “base” game when you turn it on, then you’re playing only that game except it pulls minigames from all three. So you can’t, say, play MP1 with items or a MP3 board with MP2 mechanics or anything like that. Even the instructions/results screens are pulled from whatever the original minigame is from, which can be jarring. But it does have the added bonus of letting you toggle whatever minigames you want, which is great on its own.

 

[big pauper]

Nintendo used a CPU designed by Silicon Graphics, Incorporated. SGI had no interest in 2D anything, so the chip wasn't made for it. Nintendo forced a lower clock speed on the chip vs the original design to be able to make them cheaper due to less binning occurring on a slower chip.

Put those two factors together, and you are not going to get much 2D content made. Most of the games with 2-dimensional gameplay were made using 3D assets on the system, and the shit clock speed is why so many N64 games can't ever reliably hit 20 FPS, let alone anything close to fluidity. It's hilarious that even putting the stripped-out half of the RAM back via the Expansion PAk only seemed to make things even worse on most of the games that could support it.

The N64's hardware was just complete garbage.

the n64 had a ludicrously fast cpu and geometry processor for the time with a slow unified memory bus. the ps1 had separate memory banks for the cpu, gpu, and audio processor. the n64's cpu had to do a lot more work and nearly every high tech thing it could do was incurring a performance penalty that prevents something else from being as good. but the ps1 could do audio processing separately from the events happening on screen and pull tiny sprites from vram fast. the n64 was a significantly more modern system and the ps1 is a very primitive monotasker but in 1996 with the limitations of the time the n64 sucked ass

apparently nintendo prevented anybody from pushing new microcode to the GPU until late in the console's life which is why perfect dark looks and runs so good

 

[Xarpho's Return]

Nintendo used a CPU designed by Silicon Graphics, Incorporated. SGI had no interest in 2D anything, so the chip wasn't made for it. Nintendo forced a lower clock speed on the chip vs the original design to be able to make them cheaper due to less binning occurring on a slower chip.

Put those two factors together, and you are not going to get much 2D content made. Most of the games with 2-dimensional gameplay were made using 3D assets on the system, and the shit clock speed is why so many N64 games can't ever reliably hit 20 FPS, let alone anything close to fluidity. It's hilarious that even putting the stripped-out half of the RAM back via the Expansion PAk only seemed to make things even worse on most of the games that could support it.

The N64's hardware was just complete garbage.

The N64 controller was designed the way it was to have a "2D mode", that is, holding the left and right (not middle) prongs and using the D-pad. I'm sure there were a few games in Japan that were meant to be like that, but it speaks to how little coordination there was in the design.

Meanwhile, the N64 controller doesn't even have a Select button, which I guess was taken out during the design process.

 

[Curry Teafag]

The N64 controller was designed the way it was to have a "2D mode"

You mean the PSX controller.

 

[Xarpho's Return]

You mean the PSX controller.

Don't let /r/gaming be smarter than you on this one.

 

[Samuel Fuller]

I’m guessing that for Majora’s Mask, it’s mainly in regards to the whole three day system stuff, right?

Nintendo made the right call going simple for F-Zero X then. For a series about high speed futuristic racing it better darn well run fast. I still need to get around to F-Zero GX/AX one day. AX can be played on GameCube and Wii via homebrew stuff, but I don’t really do that kind of stuff personally.

Just play AX on Dolphin on your PC.
Another stupid quirk of the N64 is that it has no sound chip, and anything more than basic mono audio restricts what you can do graphically.