Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts

[Verdant]

That's exactly it. More choice is always better and one of the biggest strengths of this ecosystem. In the recent years there have been pushes to make linux userland monolithic and centralized, not only with Wayland. Corporate enshittification is probably really to blame, like the other poster said.

It feels very sinister especially since with what vitriol these "solutions" are pushed on everyone, often implying that having a choice is Actually A Bad Thing and basically telling you you're in the wrong for not using The Objectively Correct Software. Many moons ago, I used to visit /r/linux sometimes, just to stay up-to-date with what software is out there. Then systemd reached some kind of critical mass and it was like a switch was flipped and it was violently pushed on that subreddit and any kind of critique was verboten and removed, which made me stop visiting that place and many other places altogether. Because of the suddenness and aggressiveness with which systemd was pushed everywhere online, to this day I do not believe it was an organic development. Sadly it's hard to say as redditors especially like to behave like cattle. It sounds a bit tinfoil-y to say that big actors have a vested interest in Linux software becoming centralized to have better control over the people using Linux and to have a more direct access to zero days (that are actually effective because everything became homogenic), but is it really? Think of the amount of effort the US government poured into Stuxnet (which also pretty much proved that the US government is hoarding exploits) and that was in ~2009. It doesn't sound too crazy then.

I genuinely think the linux desktop got too mainstream for it's own good. It's a pity Microsoft is doing such a shitty job these days, but corporate greed knows no boundaries.

WL is a clusterfuck

the issue is that, X is an entire ecosystem of software, WL is just a spec for a barebones protocol that implements about 5% of the functionality of the Xorg server, and literally everything else is left up to the implementation.

I guess in a way it is more 'unixy', since X is this monolith where almost everyone is on the same implementation and uses the same APIs while with Wayland you can in theory do whatever you want. But that's because wayland basically doesn't exist, it's just a tiny spec serving as an umbrella term for vastly disparate and incompatible projects, whereas X was a common ground that all FOSS desktop software could expect to be present and rely on

And yes the conspiracies about Red Hat write themselves because the only way to make wayland really work is to have some big daddy step in and say 'ok here's your entire software stack filling out the other 95% of what X used to provide". And because big daddy is GNOME that stack is highly opinionated shit that isn't meant to be touched by the user in any way and extends all the way up to the desktop environment.

So then someone decides to do a proper open implementation of 'the other 95%' in WLR, but oops KDE has already started doing their own thing so now we have three. Then autistic nerds can't help themselves so we get smithay. And hyprland. And now we have 5 competing implementations that aren't compatible with each other and are back to the bad old days of what software you can use being dependent on what desktop environment you run. And not everything works in every stack. I switched to WL because I was experiencing the one real user facing issue that X has, which is there's no mixed DPI support. On WLR Xwayland still can't handle mixed DPI properly, on KDE it can. So if you want everything to actually work properly you gotta use K(rash)DE.

It's a load of BS and it's sad how it's been so politicized and turned into a left wing brave and stunning wayland tranny vs right wing evil racist X11 chud culture war. Technical flamewars have always been part and parcel of the nerd world but it just didn't used to be so nasty with the side you take seen as a proxy for your character and poltiics.

We absolutely deserved an 'X12' that just rewrites the X server and aims to replace it 1:1, or having Wayland be something like WLR from the start. But it's just too late now, even though Wayland is now at the point where most things mostly work the fragmentation is set in stone and won't go away unless someone else with Red Hat levels of $$$ decides to create a Wayland replacement designed with the philosophy that it should actually try to replace the X server.

 

[Rust Troony]

We absolutely deserved an 'X12' that just rewrites the X server and aims to replace it 1:1, or having Wayland be something like WLR from the start. But it's just too late now, even though Wayland is now at the point where most things mostly work the fragmentation is set in stone and won't go away unless someone else with Red Hat levels of $$$ decides to create a Wayland replacement designed with the philosophy that it should actually try to replace the X server.

It always baffles me seeing that wayland is 17 years old and is still not fully ready to use. Imagine if Microsoft somehow fucked up their display manager so bad it takes from windows 7 to now in order to get it somewhat working, they would be a even bigger laughing stock than they already are.

 

[306h4Ge5eJUJ]

It always baffles me seeing that wayland is 17 years old and is still not fully ready to use. Imagine if Microsoft somehow fucked up their display manager so bad it takes from windows 7 to now in order to get it somewhat working, they would be a even bigger laughing stock than they already are.

It's especially funny because X11 was merely 21 years old at the time Wayland was started in order to replace X11. They still have 4 years until something fucking hilarious happens.