Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts

[babaisyou]

The decision to ignore explicit sync until it became impossible to ignore the technical reality of modern graphics APIs.

Reminds me that NVIDIA and FreeDesktop had a slap fight over EGLStreams and GBM for eight years until NVIDIA finally conceded.

 

[GNU Abyss]

I'm so over talking about Wayland. It's just a failed project in my mind and I don't care if people disagree. I'm just going to keep using X11. Nothing I rely on is even talking about removing X11 support. It fits my use case perfectly, unlike Wayland.

Despite the insistent credentialism of the Wayland devs, they've made poor decisions at every turn. Wayland is fundamentally flawed as a concept. The "perfect frame" obsession. The decision to ignore explicit sync until it became impossible to ignore the technical reality of modern graphics APIs. Wayland still can't present a cursor on the screen without it feeling like soupy shit. WDDM doesn't have this problem, Quartz doesn't have this problem and they're both "tear free". X11 doesn't have this problem either. Check out my benchmark: https://gitgud.io/CrunkLord420/crunkbench

Wayland is the biggest boondoggle in the history of FOSS. It's so easy to come up with conspiracies about how Red Hat intentionally pushed this shit to hold the Linux desktop back. The alternative is just ego and incompetence. There should be books written about this. The meme about Wayland being a glorified "kiosk display server" feel on point.

PS. smdh at people arguing with certified code contributor @dec05eba

Well, then I have great news for you. SteamOS 3.8.10 Stable Released With Updated Arch, Steam Machine Support & Wayland Desktop Default (A).

SteamOS' Arch Linux base has been updated with a number of newer packages, KDE Plasma 6.4 now replaces Plasma 6.2 for the desktop experience, Wayland is now used by default in the SteamOS desktop mode though X11 is still there for those who want it

Valve's jumping on the failtrain. Will their billions of dollars and 2-and-a-half half-enthusiastic contract devs be enough to fix Wayland?

 

[jeff7989]

Mesa WSI finally landed support for new VK present timing extensions on X11. What it means in practice? X11 compositors can now use VK_EXT_present_timing for more accurate frametime control. Downsides? That's for Vulkan so you'd need to write a backend for your compositor. If you're on Android then you've already experienced UI smoothness aided by older code developed by Google.

Will their billions of dollars and 2-and-a-half half-enthusiastic contract devs be enough to fix Wayland?

Unironically yes, Valve has enough inertia to tardwrangle troons.

 

[dec05eba]

Mesa WSI finally landed support for new VK present timing extensions on X11. What it means in practice? X11 compositors can now use VK_EXT_present_timing for more accurate frametime control. Downsides? That's for Vulkan so you'd need to write a backend for your compositor. If you're on Android then you've already experienced UI smoothness aided by older code developed by Google.

Unironically yes, Valve has enough inertia to tardwrangle troons.

It just uses X11 present extension which has been available for a long time. Mesa actually always uses it, but without the timing. You can do manual timing with XPresentPixmap and wait for the present complete event, without using this vulkan extension. It works in opengl application/xrender applications as well, so it can work with existing compositor without having to rewrite them in vulkan.

X11 has actually had such timing methods for a very long time, since the 90s (with glx). The sad part is that it's bugged in the proprietary nvidia driver with the proprietary x11 driver (the complete event is never sent). I guess you could use xlibre and use the modesetting driver with nvidia, but it has some issues because the nvidia driver gets confused when you run x11 with the proprietary driver but dont use the proprietary nvidia x11 driver.
That also means that this vulkan present timing wont work on nvidia x11 (with the proprietary driver), until they fix the present complete bug.

One application that manually uses X11 present is mpv (on amd and intel), for smoother video.

 

[CrunkLord420]

NVIDIA finally conceded

This is a bizarre and factually inaccurate statement that keeps getting peddled around. NVIDIA (Erik Kurzinger) put a lot of labor into implementing explicit sync into Wayland after like a decade of Wayland refusing to do so. EGLStream was an implicit sync solution to the fact that Wayland was architecturally incompatible with modern graphics hardware. It is now entirely redundant.

Just like the whole "perfect frame" obsession and being able to disable vsync. It took like a decade for the Wayland people to finally relent to reality. Don't forget that Valve almost hijacked the Wayland project with a hostile fork because Wayland corpos were just refusing to do anything ever.

Anyone else notice Freedesktop stop allowing indexing of their gitlab? Makes it real hard to search for issues. Sus.

 

[Hannibalistique]

Anyone else notice Freedesktop stop allowing indexing of their gitlab? Makes it real hard to search for issues. Sus.

They have retarded sysadmins, and just threw the retarded anime PoW shit on everything and blocked all bots when their cpanel started loading slowly and they were unable to understand server logs (no, "AI companies" didn't scrape your precious open sores), so now no search engines can hit it (iirc linpro sponsored sysadmins for freedesktop way back when but now it's trannies doing it for free, and you get what you pay for).

 

[dec05eba]

Anyone else notice Freedesktop stop allowing indexing of their gitlab? Makes it real hard to search for issues. Sus.

I hate this shit. I often search for <software name> source code and it doesn't give link to the source code. Then after a while I realize that it's hosted on freedesktop gitlab.
Many free software gitlabs also have manual account approval. I needed to make a merge request to libplacebo (hosted on code.videolan.org) but they still haven't accepted my account registration, so I cant contribute code.

 

[Hannibalistique]

I hate this shit. I often search for <software name> source code and it doesn't give link to the source code. Then after a while I realize that it's hosted on freedesktop gitlab.
Many free software gitlabs also have manual account approval. I needed to make a merge request to libplacebo (hosted on code.videolan.org) but they still haven't accepted my account registration, so I cant contribute code.

Send a mail to j-b and ask if he can poke their sysadmin, he at least used to be very helpful even with minor issues around videolan (or maybe bother haasn directly, iirc libplacebo is his thing).

 

[monk]

Imagine you set up a computer once, just once, and then it just works and you don't have to change anything and it is always predictable and understandable how it works, even years from now on, without being dependent on the newest brain fart of some corpo-adjecent nerd and his clique on a power trip. The very concept of this makes some people very, very angry.

They call it churn. Corporations live off of churn, they need to justify their maintenance and update contracts. If the executive class were actually smart they would realize that stable is better, but they think they need to keep up with other corporations or they'll become fossils, so when a competitor gets a flashy new website, they just have to have it too. And so they get on the hype train and constantly need to update and fix bugs.
The other side of it is that churn allows malicious actors to plant new backdoors into code. If you think about the life of how bugs and vulns are introduced and fixed, when there is new code being added, there is always a non-0 chance of bugs and vulns in it, and so there is always some non-0 chance that it can be exploited in the wild. If the speed of adding new bugs and vulns exceeds the speed at which they're being fixed, the feds spooks are happy. If a project stabilizes and they devote most of their effort to fixing bugs, or even get to the state that all known bugs are fixed, they hate it, because they can't exploit the bugs. So they attack you from several angles, like calling your project "old", "dead", "deprecated", "outdated", "abandoned", etc. Another angle is by paying someone else to write a "new, hip, better" replacement for your project, with a new, hip language that's totes way safer, so that they can again introduce new bugs and vulns that they can exploit.

 

[Cuckoman]

I'm so over talking about Wayland. It's just a failed project in my mind and I don't care if people disagree. I'm just going to keep using X11. Nothing I rely on is even talking about removing X11 support. It fits my use case perfectly, unlike Wayland.

Despite the insistent credentialism of the Wayland devs, they've made poor decisions at every turn. Wayland is fundamentally flawed as a concept. The "perfect frame" obsession. The decision to ignore explicit sync until it became impossible to ignore the technical reality of modern graphics APIs. Wayland still can't present a cursor on the screen without it feeling like soupy shit. WDDM doesn't have this problem, Quartz doesn't have this problem and they're both "tear free". X11 doesn't have this problem either. Check out my benchmark: https://gitgud.io/CrunkLord420/crunkbench

Wayland is the biggest boondoggle in the history of FOSS. It's so easy to come up with conspiracies about how Red Hat intentionally pushed this shit to hold the Linux desktop back. The alternative is just ego and incompetence. There should be books written about this. The meme about Wayland being a glorified "kiosk display server" feel on point.

PS. smdh at people arguing with certified code contributor @dec05eba

My biggest issue with Wayland is not its technical failings but its community.
OpenSource used to be about choice and if you didn't like how something worked, you did your own thing.
And that was good because now there was more choice available.

Wayland doesn't solve the use-cases I care about. That should not be controversial. I just continue using X11 that does solve my use-cases and the Wayland people work on whatever they want to work on for their uses-cases that are not my use-cases.

I use what works for me, they use what works for them and we all happily coexist forever.

But no, that is not possible. It is not enough that Wayland exist and does whatever the fuck the Weyland faggots want it to do, no, also X11 must not exist.

This is very similar to political discource and say Reddit.
It is a mindset of "I have the only true and correct opinion and any other opinion must not exist".
This turns me from being "I like X and you like Y, cool" into "I do not want to coexist with or have anything to do with you".