Leaving Neverland - heehee

[drtoboggan]

I don't even care if he is guilty or not anymore. He still made fantastic music and I separate the art from the artist.

I feel the same about serial adulterer and wife beater John Lennon. He talked a big game about peace when he wasn't roughing up women.

 

[ReplicantWiggum]

I find it baffling that MJ was able to parade the kids he abused in front of the media as “friends” for years! In what world do ultra famous celebrities have a posse of pre pubecscent boys on call with them now a days? Honestly it would be like a famous rapper showing up to the Grammies with a white 7 year old boy and when the interviewer asks he just says their friends! FFS I can’t say the documentary changed my mind, I grew up in the generation that had Mr Jefferson, but it is an interesting topic to discuss nonetheless

 

[Saffronette]

Oh well what do you know...

The Truth About What Michael Jackson Had (And Didn't Have) In His Bedroom

m.huffpost.com

Looks like that supposedly horrible child porn they found was faked.

And Radar Online (or maybe we should say whoever was responsible for “leaking” those documents to them) also purposely tampered with many of those images to make them “appear” more explicit than they actually are, as per this example. On the right is the image as Radar online posted it. On the left is the original image from the book Bidgood by James Bidgood, which is a legal book of adult male photography. On the left is the original image in Bidgood’s book. On the right is the image as it was then “doctored” in the falsified documents. As you can see, Radar Online (or someone) purposely blocked out the crotches so as to make it appear as if the young men in Bidgood’s photo were naked, when in fact they were actually clothed in shorts.

 

[Ama Dablam]

You are relying on feels, not us. I actually don’t think you watched the documentary. Here is eye witness testimony from two victims and various members of their families, piles of evidence in the form of videos, notes, voice messages, trips, overnight stays and instead you believe some melted face clown with obvious mental issues saying “nope I’m innocent I just sleep with dozens of boys because I’m pure of heart and had a shitty childhood.” it’s really absurd. I mean Michael wouldn’t lie!

It’s not like Wade and James were the only ones, far far from it. Mike paid off the first kid in 1993, other settlements were paid that weren’t so public. (He molested his housekeepers son, paid her $2 mil for silence)

Documentary aside, I’m not relying on feels at all and basing it solely on MJ’s admitted and public behavior over 20 years. People who are defending such an obvious abuser are relying are feels. Because they enjoy his music or fond nostalgia he couldn’t possibly be a serial child rapist, it’s really bizarre.

Micheal freely admitted to sharing his bed and sleeping with many young boys. While cuddling with an 11 year old on camera he said, “sharing your bed with someone is the most loving thing you can do.”

Watch this YT interview with Mike and his victim in 2003, start at 1:22:30

https://youtube.com/watch?v=gqqipytDeuM
Maybe look at how he toured the world for a decade always with a different small boy, always aged 8-12, by his side. Because so many musicians do that, right?

It’s always amazed me that most of the stuff MJ did publicly would have had any other person exiled from humanity and barred from being near any children. But because MJ sung and danced really well, had gobs of money and fame, many people put aside their common sense and looked for ways to excuse his obvious kid raping ways.

At aprox. 125 Michael says I see God in the face of children. Do you see God in their assholes too Michael?

 

[tyjc]

It's funny that people use the 20 million dollar payment as proof he did it, but then ignore the trial as proof he didn't do it. You can't just ignore certain things.

It's entirely possible that between Michaels naivety and his lawyers/handlers convincing him, that it was much easier to pay off the family and avoid a circus. But if that's the case it certainly didn't work and encouraged more false allegations.

One things for sure, whether he was a child molester or not, I don't believe these 2 boys on the documentary at all. Between their ever changing story, clear financial motives, and convenient timing, I just can't see it being true.

It's also kind of sick that people can make allegations long after your death without a chance to defend yourself and yet people take it as gospel.

 

[Travoltron]

Oh well what do you know...

The Truth About What Michael Jackson Had (And Didn't Have) In His Bedroom

m.huffpost.com

Looks like that supposedly horrible child porn they found was faked.

1. Huffington Post
2. The author of this piece is Raven Woods. "...a journalist, English instructor and pop culture writer. Her writings on Michael Jackson include “Michael Jackson’s HIStory and the Art of Musical Autobiography” and Allforloveblog. She has contributed articles on Jackson’s work to many scholarly publications."

SHE IS A CULT MEMBER JUST LIKE YOU!!!

 

[Saffronette]

1. Huffington Post
2. The author of this piece is Raven Woods. "...a journalist, English instructor and pop culture writer. Her writings on Michael Jackson include “Michael Jackson’s HIStory and the Art of Musical Autobiography” and Allforloveblog. She has contributed articles on Jackson’s work to many scholarly publications."

SHE IS A CULT MEMBER JUST LIKE YOU!!!

So you didn't read the article or look at the pictures included? I picked it because the article had proper sources unlike you guys just mouthing off whatever claims you heard. I mean I at least took the time out to read everyone else's sources and watch the Bashir documentary for the umpteenth time.

Seems like you guys lack comprehension and are upset that I don't agree. And that's okay.

 

[sperginity]

I'll withhold judgement unless/until more accusers come forward. Because Michael's grooming game, as described in the movie, is on point, the way he subtly insinuates himself into the parents' trust, disarms them with his woe-is-me-I'm-so-lonely-and-never-had-a-childhood thing as an explanation for his behavior, and then progressively isolates them from their kids emotionally and physically (moving their hotel suites a little bit further at each tour stop until the parents are on a different floor entirely), and the way that he cycled through new 'it boys' until he got bored of them and moved on to fresher meat. If all of that is true, then there have to be dozens of James Safechucks and Wade Robsons out there, and there's no way they'll all stay quiet forever.

It is actually pretty amazing that we know of so many accusers when you consider the man's wealth. We know he settled out of court at least once. If there are other cases settled out of court then the victims can't talk publicly about what happened to them, and keep in mind that if that is what happened, it was the stage moms settling on behalf of their children. They seem more likely than normal parents to take hush money.
When 5 people say the same guy raped them that's usually good enough to get them convicted.

Anyway- Caulkin saying he wasn't molested is just like the actors on the cosby show saying bill cosby didn't rape them. These guys are absolutely calculating and know that they can't realistically rape most people, they are completely wholesome with most of the people they meet in order to build a positive reputation to insulate themselves against any accusations that crop up. They pick victims based on their perception of how easy they can get away with raping them, which means picking the people who are least likely to tell (and if they do tell, least likely to be believed).

 

[Dolphin Lundgren]

Oh well what do you know...

The Truth About What Michael Jackson Had (And Didn't Have) In His Bedroom

m.huffpost.com

Looks like that supposedly horrible child porn they found was faked.

He still showed Corey Feldman inappropriate books while he was a minor as an adult, which is still fucked up to do to a kid. Everyone ignores that one since it's been mentioned.

 

[Saffronette]

He still showed Corey Feldman inappropriate books while he was a minor as an adult, which is still fucked up to do to a kid. Everyone ignores that one since it's been mentioned.

Where's your actual source that he says this? I've scrubbed through videos and I don't see any other articles talking about this besides The Sun. Like this is honestly my first time hearing about it. What makes you think that they're being honest?

 

[Dolphin Lundgren]

Where's your actual source that he says this? I've scrubbed through videos and I don't see any other articles talking about this besides The Sun. Like this is honestly my first time hearing about it. What makes you think that they're being honest?

Corey Feldman said it himself. It was a way to educate him from diseases, but that would be enough for adults to side eye him about. Most adults should stay away from showing to other people's kids just to teach them. The book was naked people with venereal diseases.

Edit: it's a small thing but I don't know- even if it's to educate I don't think it's another adult's place to show some minor a book of nudes, even for that purpose just to teach. It's not their place and it's weird. Even if it's innocent.

That's just my opinion.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

It's funny that people use the 20 million dollar payment as proof he did it, but then ignore the trial as proof he didn't do it. You can't just ignore certain things.

It's entirely possible that between Michaels naivety and his lawyers/handlers convincing him, that it was much easier to pay off the family and avoid a circus. But if that's the case it certainly didn't work and encouraged more false allegations.

One things for sure, whether he was a child molester or not, I don't believe these 2 boys on the documentary at all. Between their ever changing story, clear financial motives, and convenient timing, I just can't see it being true.

It's also kind of sick that people can make allegations long after your death without a chance to defend yourself and yet people take it as gospel.

No one disputes the fact that Wade and James, plus many many other boys, spent nights alone with MJ and shared his bed. Mike himself talks about sharing his bed with boys. So you believe these kids just spent dozens of nights sleeping in Mike's bed, at Neverland and in hotel rooms, behind locked doors and with parents kept away just playing video games and eating popcorn? No way MJ was spending all that time alone molesting these boys, MJ was just a pure innocent boy at heart with nary a flutter of any sexual desires. His lack of any romantic adult companionship surely

I'm sure he molested kids in those cases where parents were paid off.

I'm not convinced he molested those he went to trial about. because that didn't get him a conviction and yes, the trial info is public.

he got away with a lot more than a regular person would; but hell, we've got almost every single big musician out there raping girls- there's not the sort of huge public clusterfuck around it, with very few exceptions, as there is about this.

Polanski. fucking Woody Allen! Jimmy Page, David Bowie, Prince, R Kelley, and on and on. name a rock star, there's a victim. hell, name a millionaire, and there's ten. we elected a guy president who's been avoiding a child rape trial with legal jousting for decades!

this is the fabric of fame. why THIS case, of all cases, becomes so much more important boggles me. is it because there's male victims? for what it's worth, I believe Feldman. where's his documentary?

is it because he won in court/no justice for these kids? I could tell you a hundred stories... but they'd all involve little girls, not boys.

I mean the documentary is indeed really sappy. it's filmed in that really emotional sort of way.

if you've seen "just Melvin, just evil" you've seen a really strong, dry, convincing approach to a subject similar to this. but this particular documentary is a heartstring show except for the receipts. the evidence isn't strong but what there is, is very convincing.

how many people watched "the jinx" and were convinced he didn't do it until the end? how many people have watched "making a murderer" and think he's innocent (hint: court transcripts aren't as moving emotionally, but are more convincing when it comes to his guilt)

I don't think I have strong feelings on this apart from the fact that I am beginning to dislike emotional documentaries, that I believe the one dude on this one, and that all celebrities and influential people take advantage of poor or vulnerable youth.

I didn't find the documentary to be particularly emotionally manipulative, but pretty straightforward with the victims and their families explaining how things played out. There were no cringey re-enactments of the gloved one looming in the dark behind small boys. I didn't think either man was overly dramatic or emotional in his recounting of the their stories, in fact Jimmy was very flat affect and disconnected. The footage they showed was all just archival news footage or personal footage from the victims. The big looming questions have always been how did parents allow MJ such unsupervised access to their kids and why were the victims silent for so long - and I think the doco did an excellent job of answering both those questions.

I knew a lot about the Durst case so I never doubted his guilt for a moment watching Jinx. Making a Murder was interesting but I was mostly horrified by how they convicted and jailed his intellectually disabled nephew, which was the most obvious miscarriage of justice in the documentary.

I actually think that the reason Jackson was able to get away with what he did was because his victims were boys. Society has a big thing about little girls being left alone with men or sharing their bed, but many people were astoundingly naive about men raping little boys years ago. It's why you had so many scandals with the catholic church, coaches and cub scout leaders. Girls and women were always viewed as sexual objects in some sense by society, but not little boys. I think MJ would have never been able to get away with what he did if he had favored 10 year old little girls (now if he had liked teenage girls he probably would have been fine.)

I think the documentary is a good lesson to people about how child sex abusers operate and coerce children.

The biggest factors for both boys remaining silent was shame. They were actually jealous when MJ picked another boy to take into his bedroom, they looked forward to being alone and having Mike molest them, etc... It caused a lot of confusion because they liked Mike and enjoyed how some of it made them feel. I mean both said he introduced them to masturbation. So if they liked MJ and the molestation felt good, then they didn’t feel like victims and didn’t view it as abuse.

It makes a lot of sense that both of the men having children caused much of this to surface. Being around their own child let them see just how easy it is to take advantage of and coerce a child. I finally seeing childhood from outside of their own perspective was eye opening.

Where's your actual source that he says this? I've scrubbed through videos and I don't see any other articles talking about this besides The Sun. Like this is honestly my first time hearing about it. What makes you think that they're being honest?

GROSSED OUT’ Michael Jackson made me look at naked photos when I was 13, child star Corey Feldman claims

Here you go:

 

[Dolphin Lundgren]

Corey Feldman sure loves to make it seem like him and Corey Haim were close even though Haim stopped talking to Feldman before he died.
That's just another thing I'm noticing from these Feldman articles.

 

[cuddle striker]

.

It is actually pretty amazing that we know of so many accusers when you consider the man's wealth. We know he settled out of court at least once. If there are other cases settled out of court then the victims can't talk publicly about what happened to them, and keep in mind that if that is what happened, it was the stage moms settling on behalf of their children. They seem more likely than normal parents to take hush money.
When 5 people say the same guy raped them that's usually good enough to get them convicted.

Anyway- Caulkin saying he wasn't molested is just like the actors on the cosby show saying bill cosby didn't rape them. These guys are absolutely calculating and know that they can't realistically rape most people, they are completely wholesome with most of the people they meet in order to build a positive reputation to insulate themselves against any accusations that crop up. They pick victims based on their perception of how easy they can get away with raping them, which means picking the people who are least likely to tell (and if they do tell, least likely to be believed).

predators know their prey; they do zero in only on the vulnerable.

 

[Dolphin Lundgren]

I agree that the documentary showed how child predators can successfully lure their prey and showed the victim shame very well. It didn't seem emotionally manipulative to me either. As for people who bring up the "he was married but somehow was able to molest kids at the same time Lisa was around." Spouses have secret double lives all the time without their significant others being aware. I don't know why this is a new thing to people.
Hell, there were husbands who were killers without their wives knowing.

 

[sperginity]

I read this thread some more, and some of y'all really are dense. "Why did he testify that nothing happened previously?" Gee, could it be because michael jackson cried and told him that they both would go to prison if he told the truth? I'm sure going to a big scary court house with a judge and a baliff really made that boy scared of michael's threat coming true. The reason parents get so frustrated with their kids is that they have to figure out ethical ways to get kids to do things that they don't want to do. If you have zero morals it is extremely easy to control a child with empty threats, they don't know what will really happen because they are naive.

Speaking of parents- they usually move their child to their own bed by age 3, maybe 5 at the absolute latest. Sleeping next to your children every night way past the age of developmental appropriateness is a form of emotional incest. Separate sleeping arrangements are a boundary that are supposed to remain intact to establish developmentally normal independence for kids. I mean obviously if there is a nightmare on occasion, or they're in the hospital, or a camping trip or something parents sleep next to their kids, but its fucking weird that a millionaire would have whole families sleep together in huge beds instead of having a normal/healthy set up for kids who are 8-12. It is almost like that arrangement will screen for parents that will overlook weirdness in order to get closer to jackson. It isn't that great of a defense if you think about it for 2 seconds. Imagine asking a family with 8 and 12 year old children to visit your home for a few days- unless you could not afford it, you would try to ensure enough beds for everyone. That's the normal behavior involved with having house guests.

I also have to point out, testosterone peaks right before waking in men, causing most men to have erections most mornings. Jackson admits to sleeping next to boys who haven't hit puberty yet. How tf could he have this arrangement without, at a minimum, visibly pitching a tent or rolling up against someone with morning wood at some point? Does he sleep exclusively on his stomach and never moves once he falls asleep? This is why normal, non-pedo men would never want to make a habit of sleeping in a bed full of kids, even if they really actually did have the purest of intentions: they would realize the practical limits of their intentions and opt to protect the children. Non-pedos do not want to explain morning wood (or erections generally) to kids.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

I agree that the documentary showed how child predators can successfully lure their prey and showed the victim shame very well. It didn't seem emotionally manipulative to me either. As for people who bring up the "he was married but somehow was able to molest kids at the same time Lisa was around." Spouses have secret double lives all the time without their significant others being aware. I don't know why this is a new thing to people.
Hell, there were husbands who were killers without their wives knowing.

You think he and Lisa Marie ever lived together or shared a bed? Same goes for Debbie Rowe. Never. Debbie had IVF for both sperm donor kids and never lived with Jackson.

His marriage to Lisa Marie was a sudden thing done due to the first pedo allegations hurting his reputation, so he did the Hollywood thing and got a beard. The Scientologists were hungry to nab and big star like Jackson so they encouraged Lisa Marie to go along with it thinking Jacko would be a Scientologist in no time. They made her get a quickie divorce from her husband Danny (2nd generation Scientologist and SO member) who was the father of her children and they never actually broke up during her shame marriage.

I honestly think MJ even weirded out the CoS and they all just cut and run from that PR disaster - which is amazing. Even if you want to pretend he and Lisa Marie has anything resembling an actual marriage they were married for only two years. Her “ex-husband” still lived in her home with their kids and her. She never lived with Jackson put said she visited Neverland.

I mean he even decided he had to kiss her in front of a large audience to try and prove the marriage so legit, it was such a public joke. theater of the absurd.

 

[MrTroll]

I read this thread some more, and some of y'all really are dense. "Why did he testify that nothing happened previously?" Gee, could it be because michael jackson cried and told him that they both would go to prison if he told the truth? I'm sure going to a big scary court house with a judge and a baliff really made that boy scared of michael's threat coming true. The reason parents get so frustrated with their kids is that they have to figure out ethical ways to get kids to do things that they don't want to do. If you have zero morals it is extremely easy to control a child with empty threats, they don't know what will really happen because they are naive.

Wade Robson was 22 when he testified in 2005 for MJ's trial. He wasn't a scared little boy at that point, he was a full-grown man who should have known better, and whose testimony probably helped Jackson beat the charges, considering the defense only called 4 witnesses.

 

[tyjc]

Wade Robson was 22 when he testified in 2005 for MJ's trial. He wasn't a scared little boy at that point, he was a full-grown man who should have known better, and whose testimony probably helped Jackson beat the charges, considering the defense only called 4 witnesses.

Exactly. And it didn't stop there. They defended and continued to speak to Michael all the way up till his death. It wasn't until they ran into financial issues that they suddenly had to "speak up."

Not only have their stories changed since the trial, their stories have changed multiple times since they came out with the false allegations. Stories full of holes and contradictions.

They tried to sue the estate for the "abuse", and had a failed book deal, yet claim "they aren't in it for the money." They have zero credibility.

There's nothing stopping you from simultaneously believing that Michael Jackson is a predator and that this documentary pure fiction.

I don't know if MJ is guilty, but I guarantee the documentary is baloney.

 

[XYZpdq]

Torrents and weird movie sites do not work on cytube sadly: you will need them to either be on youtube, vimeo, dailymotion or google drive. Seeing as this is HBO, it is best to have it on google drive.

If I get the time, I'll be sure to upload if others cannot.

cytube (taima too) can also use mp4 files off of archive.org, works best if they're under 1000k per second.
I think there's some browsers that can handle ogg videos from archive too but I'm not sure which.