Leaving Neverland - heehee

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Fucking obviously MJ was a pedo who fucked little boys, and if there's a hell I hope he's burning in it. Play all the mindgames you want, it's obviously the case.

But we knew this already. We've known this forever. So anyone trying to be all "Oh my god, Michael Jackson is cancelled now!" is super fucking late, and also, fuck them. People want to jump on a bandwagon, like oh yeah, this particular documentary is what removed the doubt. No, just some people have to virtue signal constantly, so they can't admit he's a fucked up pervert who fucked kids who also made good music. Nope, either his art was terrible or he was 100% innocent. Well that's bullshit, just come to terms with the fact that many artists who created art you like were horrible fucking people.

We all knew R. Kelly was a rapist, people kept listening to that shit. Suddenly if there's no court conviction it never happened? He fucking published video evidence of it.

Whoever called this virtue signalling crap "Neo Victorianism" has it right. People are pretending to live by fake morals they don't believe in so they can hold other people responsible for not living by those fake morals.

Saying that "everyone knew about it" but doing nothing except sitting on your hands and complain is something I will never understand. I guess they tried to do something about it by taking MJ to court. But that didn't really work out as planned because they didn't find any evidence that proved he was a pedophile.

One of the men accusing him in the documentary, Wade Robson willingly went to court in 2005 to defend him. He told them that he wasn't molested nor did he witness other children being molested. Him lying under oath has soured all the claims he has made since 2013.

I think most people are aware that artists aren't perfect saints and are capable of committing atrocities. I know MJ isn't perfect but I don't think he was an "obvious pedophile" like people claim. Because when I did look at the evidence; I saw a lot of people in the media who were very opportunistic and willing to trivialize child molestation in order to ruin someone's life. And that's a problem.

There's real living pedophiles that are abusing children and have gotten away with it. When you falsely accuse innocent people you make it more difficult to catch the actual predators.
 
Saying that "everyone knew about it" but doing nothing except sitting on your hands and complain is something I will never understand. I guess they tried to do something about it by taking MJ to court. But that didn't really work out as planned because they didn't find any evidence that proved he was a pedophile.

One of the men accusing him in the documentary, Wade Robson willingly went to court in 2005 to defend him. He told them that he wasn't molested nor did he witness other children being molested. Him lying under oath has soured all the claims he has made since 2013.

I think most people are aware that artists aren't perfect saints and are capable of committing atrocities. I know MJ isn't perfect but I don't think he was an "obvious pedophile" like people claim. Because when I did look at the evidence; I saw a lot of people in the media who were very opportunistic and willing to trivialize child molestation in order to ruin someone's life. And that's a problem.

There's real living pedophiles that are abusing children and have gotten away with it. When you falsely accuse innocent people you make it more difficult to catch the actual predators.
Hey, if I ever time travel and end up on a jury I'll just judge according to the evidence presented. While I'm talking shit on an internet forum I'll just give my honest opinion.

Do something about what? That was my point, this isn't new, if it turns you off the music don't listen to the music, if it doesn't then don't. What pisses me off is people acting like this is new, and the attitude "Well you have to stop liking MJ music because we've finally decided to stop pretending he wasn't obviously a pedo". I knew he was a fucking pedo before I heard a single thing from him I liked.
 
Hey, if I ever time travel and end up on a jury I'll just judge according to the evidence presented. While I'm talking shit on an internet forum I'll just give my honest opinion.

Do something about what? That was my point, this isn't new, if it turns you off the music don't listen to the music, if it doesn't then don't. What pisses me off is people acting like this is new, and the attitude "Well you have to stop liking MJ music because we've finally decided to stop pretending he wasn't obviously a pedo". I knew he was a fucking pedo before I heard a single thing from him I liked.
But how was it obvious? Because he was an awkward manchild? You act as if you knew him or something. How would you feel if everyone around you started calling you a pedophile for whatever reason? Those accusations alone could destroy your life.

Also I know it's not new stuff; I didn't say anything about whether people should listen to his music or not. So far it's still publicly available so I'm not worried about that. It's not about pretending he didn't do anything wrong it's about people lying about something very serious in order to get money. If you want justice for something as heinous as child molestation, you don't ask for money.
 
But how was it obvious? Because he was an awkward manchild? You act as if you knew him or something. How would you feel if everyone around you started calling you a pedophile for whatever reason? Those accusations alone could destroy your life.

Also I know it's not new stuff; I didn't say anything about whether people should listen to his music or not. So far it's still publicly available so I'm not worried about that. It's not about pretending he didn't do anything wrong it's about people lying about something very serious in order to get money. If you want justice for something as heinous as child molestation, you don't ask for money.
Hah, well, I'm not gonna retread this argument again, you're clearly set in your opinion and I've already stated that I made up my mind a long time ago. We will have to agree that you're wrong and I'm right to disagree :P
 
Now Insider has a made list of consequences following this documentary


7 consequences brought on by the explosive Michael Jackson documentary 'Leaving Neverland'
Gabbi Shaw

59m
michael jackson
Michael Jackson performs circa 1986. Kevin Mazur/WireImage via Getty Images
  • The documentary "Leaving Neverland" has been forcing people all over the world to reckon with Michael Jackson's legacy.
  • "Neverland" focuses on two men, Wade Robson and James Safechuck, who allege that Jackson sexually abused both of them as children.
  • Since the documentary aired, radio stations have pulled his music, and memorabilia has been removed from museums.
The documentary "Leaving Neverland" aired on HBO on March 3 and 4. In the weeks that have followed, family, fans, and the music industry have all had to respond to the devastating sexual abuse allegationsmade by Wade Robson and James Safechuck against Michael Jackson, arguably the biggest popstar of all time.
Since then, radio stations from around the globe have removed his music from airwaves, an episode of "The Simpsons" starring the singer was pulled from circulation, and his music sales have started dropping.
Here's a list of the fallout from "Leaving Neverland."

A glove and a fedora worn by Jackson on stage have been removed from the Children's Museum of Indianapolis.
A glove and a fedora worn by Jackson on stage have been removed from the Children's Museum of Indianapolis.
Michael Jackson in his classic look: a sparkly glove and a fedora.David McGough/DMI/The LIFE Picture Collection/Getty Images
The Indianapolis Star reported on March 15 that the Indianapolis Children's Museum had removed three items of Jackson's from their "American Pop" exhibit, including a fedora and sparkly glove that he wore on stage. The museum also removed a Jackson poster.
"When we put together exhibitions, we look at the objects and their association with high-profile people. Obviously, we want to put stories in front of our visitors [showing] people of high character," said Chris Carron, the museum's director of collections.
The Los Angeles Lakers have replaced the Jackson song "Beat It" with the Chuck Berry tune "Johnny B. Goode" and Nirvana.
The Los Angeles Lakers have replaced the Jackson song
The Lakers have moved on. Los Angeles Lakers
ESPN journalist Dave McMenamin noted on Twitter that the Lakers had replaced "Beat It" with other music during games.
According to him, traditionally a camera pans out to the crowd encouraging fans to bust out their own air guitar moves, like player Lance Stephenson, while "Beat It" plays. It was changed to Chuck Berry and Nirvana songs.

Louis Vuitton is pulling Jackson-related designs from their 2019 menswear collection.
Louis Vuitton is pulling Jackson-related designs from their 2019 menswear collection.
A guest wears a black t-shirt with a patch depicting the eyes of Michael Jackson from the album "Dangerous" outside Louis Vuitton, during Paris Fashion Week.Edward Berthelot/Getty Images
The designer's fall 2019 line was directly inspired by Jackson, and included sequin-encrusted clothes referencing his famous stage costumes, and a shirt depicting his iconic tip-toe moves in the "Billie Jean" music video.
Vuitton's men's artistic director provided a statement to Women's Wear Daily confirming that Vuitton will not be producing anything "that directly features Michael Jackson elements" and saying that he is "aware that in light of this documentary the show has caused emotional reactions. I strictly condemn any form of child abuse, violence or infringement against any human rights."
Vuitton's CEO Michael Burke added that, "We find the allegations in the documentary deeply troubling and disturbing."
Advertisements proclaiming Jackson's innocence were removed from London buses.
Advertisements proclaiming Jackson's innocence were removed from London buses.
Support messages are displayed out front the courthouse as fans wait for a verdict in the Michael Jackson child molestation trial at the Santa Barbara County Courthouse on June 10, 2005. Phil McCarten/Getty Images
The ads, which state "Facts don't lie. People do," were paid for by fans in a crowdfunding campaign. Jackson fans raised £20,000 (roughly $26,500), and had the posters plastered all over London buses and bus stops.
The Transport for London, a local government body, announced that the ads are to be taken down and "have been rejected due to the public sensitivity and concern around their content."

Streams of his music and videos have been declining.
Streams of his music and videos have been declining.
Jackson in 2005. Getty Images Entertainment
According to The Hollywood Reporter, Jackson's album sales fell 39% in the immediate aftermath of "Leaving Neverland." His combined album and song sales, along with his music with the Jackson 5, declined 4%. His streaming numbers also did not fare well, and fell by 5%.
However, his song sales alone rose by 6%.
An episode of "The Simpsons" that Jackson appeared in is being pulled from airwaves and DVDs.
An episode of
Jackson in "Stark Raving Dad." 20th Television
Jackson appeared in the season three premiere of "The Simpsons," entitled "Stark Raving Dad." He played a patient at a mental institution who believed he was the real Michael Jackson.
After the documentary, the episode was pulled from re-runs. An executive producer for the show, James L. Brooks, confirmed to The Wall Street Journal that, "It feels clearly the only choice to make," and that steps had been taken to remove the episode from future DVDs, as well.

Radio stations are banning his music from their airwaves.
Radio stations are banning his music from their airwaves.
Michael Jackson performing during the halftime show at the Super Bowl in 1993.AP Photo/Rusty Kennedy, file
Dozens of radio stations in Canada and New Zealand have pledged to take Jackson's music off the air.
New Zealand's public radio station, RNZ, confirmed that Jackson's music was not in their rotation, followed by competitor MediaWorks,whicht owns nine different commercial stations.
Three major Montreal stations belonging to Cogeco, which owns multiple stations, have also pulled his songs from airplay.
"We are attentive to listeners' comments, and last night's documentary created reactions," the director of marketing and communications for Cogeco said in a written statement.
 
Fuck you, Barbara Streisand.

Barbra Streisand believes the sexual-abuse allegations made against fellow superstar singer Michael Jackson, but she says she feels sorry for Jackson, too. Her comments have drawn online backlash. In a wide-ranging interview published Friday by The Times of London, Streisand says she believes the accusations made by Wade Robson, 36, and James Safechuck, 40, in the recent HBO documentary, "Leaving Neverland." "Oh, absolutely. That was too painful," says Streisand, who told the paper she met Jackson a couple of times and turned down his request for a duet of "I Just Can't Stop Loving You." "He was very sweet, very childlike." Asked about the abusive behavior alleged in the documentary, Streisand says: "His sexual needs were his sexual needs, coming from whatever childhood he has or whatever DNA he has."

She also assesses how the long-term effects felt by Robson and Safechuck. "You can say ‘molested’, but those children, as you heard say, they were thrilled to be there. They both married and they both have children, so it didn’t kill them.” Streisand says she has a combination of feelings about the situation. "I feel bad for the children. I feel bad for him. I blame, I guess, the parents, who would allow their children to sleep with him.” The superstar has since faced online backlash for her comments. "Barbara Streisand's comments on Michael Jackson's accusers are ... outrageous and perplexing to say the very least," Alexander W. McCall tweeted. Anthony King also tweeted criticism: "Shame on you @BarbraStreisand for disrespecting the victims of child rape. Low class, dismissive and a shocking trivialisation. To speak up for a child abuser... I expect it from the deranged MJ fans but not from you, who should know better."
 
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There is something so beautiful about two sides arguing about the credibility of witnesses and evidence, and in the middle of it all Babs just bursting in with her insane defense of pedophilia.
Honestly she's just towing the line Dan Reed wanted. He also stated that Wade and Safechuck were MJ's lovers.
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Which is weird because I thought the documentary was about spreading awareness, not promoting pedophilia. Reed had an interview in France recently and they're basically calling him a lying hack. It's interesting how other countries aren't falling for it.
 
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I watched about the first twenty minutes of it. Couldn't finish it. Had very conflicting feelings about it.

On one hand, Michael was pretty fucking weird. Neverland Ranch was creepy and the dude was blatantly messed up. But I'm not quite sure that makes him a pedophile. From what I've always read and figured was that Michael had a very fucked up childhood and wanted to have a place so kids could be kids. That's a really weird thing for a grown man to do in our culture, but I don't feel like that made him a pedo.

One of the accusers in the documentary, Wade Robson, was actually on the defense in Jackson's 2005 trial, which the documentary didn't mention outright. I read up on him and it appears since about 2013 he's changed his mind about whether or not MJ molested him. If MJ did molest him and he lied about it on the stand in 2005, that's fucking perjury. And it's a shitty thing to do against other possible kids he may have abused. Either way, I don't personally buy the shtick he's giving us that he was "brainwashed" as an adult by MJ.

Michael's dead. He isn't here to defend himself. It's very easy to bring out a documentary telling about all the shitty things he may/may not have done and get away with it. This shit just feels too readily timed with #MeToo and on the heels of #KavanaughIsARapist for me to buy into it. Admittedly I didn't finish it, so maybe there's some evidence it gives that I'm just not aware of.

In closing, I'm totally open to having my mind changed about this. This isn't a cross I'm willing to die on. But right now, I just don't see enough evidence compiled against MJ to call him a pedo. Being a weird fucking dude doesn't make one a kid diddler.
 
Just looking at the boys he trotted around, it's obvious he only cared for attractive ones. No uggos in sight!

Not a real agument. I don't care either way. He is long gone and the discussion is stale.
 
I watched about the first twenty minutes of it. Couldn't finish it. Had very conflicting feelings about it.

On one hand, Michael was pretty fucking weird. Neverland Ranch was creepy and the dude was blatantly messed up. But I'm not quite sure that makes him a pedophile. From what I've always read and figured was that Michael had a very fucked up childhood and wanted to have a place so kids could be kids. That's a really weird thing for a grown man to do in our culture, but I don't feel like that made him a pedo.

One of the accusers in the documentary, Wade Robson, was actually on the defense in Jackson's 2005 trial, which the documentary didn't mention outright. I read up on him and it appears since about 2013 he's changed his mind about whether or not MJ molested him. If MJ did molest him and he lied about it on the stand in 2005, that's fucking perjury. And it's a shitty thing to do against other possible kids he may have abused. Either way, I don't personally buy the shtick he's giving us that he was "brainwashed" as an adult by MJ.

Michael's dead. He isn't here to defend himself. It's very easy to bring out a documentary telling about all the shitty things he may/may not have done and get away with it. This shit just feels too readily timed with #MeToo and on the heels of #KavanaughIsARapist for me to buy into it. Admittedly I didn't finish it, so maybe there's some evidence it gives that I'm just not aware of.

In closing, I'm totally open to having my mind changed about this. This isn't a cross I'm willing to die on. But right now, I just don't see enough evidence compiled against MJ to call him a pedo. Being a weird fucking dude doesn't make one a kid diddler.
So let me get this straight. He had sleepovers with 8-12 year old boys so "kids could be kids", and then after he got accused of pedophilia for doing so, and after paying millions of dollars to settle lawsuits for molestation accusations stemming from the sleepovers, he continued to have these sleepovers. "so kids could be kids".
?
him being a pedo is the only explanation I've seen for why he kept going with a practice that cost him millions of dollars and (eventually) his reputation. No one is so deeply invested in sleeping next to strangers kids that they would do this, but plenty of people are that invested in molesting children. He didn't even stop when he had his own kids to sleep next to instead of 8-12 year old boys. And he only slept next to 8-12 year old boys.
 
So let me get this straight. He had sleepovers with 8-12 year old boys so "kids could be kids", and then after he got accused of pedophilia for doing so, and after paying millions of dollars to settle lawsuits for molestation accusations stemming from the sleepovers, he continued to have these sleepovers. "so kids could be kids".
?
him being a pedo is the only explanation I've seen for why he kept going with a practice that cost him millions of dollars and (eventually) his reputation. No one is so deeply invested in sleeping next to strangers kids that they would do this, but plenty of people are that invested in molesting children. He didn't even stop when he had his own kids to sleep next to instead of 8-12 year old boys. And he only slept next to 8-12 year old boys.
You are aware that many of his family members that consisted of both boys and girls visited Neverland right? Taj Jackson and Brandi Jackson were regulars there who also knew Wade Robeson (Brandi was his girlfriend until he cheated on her). They repeatedly state that all that ever happened was that they would watch movies until they fell asleep. People act like he was spooning these kids in bed even though MJ would often sleep on the floor.

And in the 1993 case he did want to go to court but couldn't because he was on tour during that time. Evan Chandler attempted to ruin his career because MJ wasn't giving money anymore and that's how the first accusations came about. In every case it has always been about how much money could they get from MJ or his estate.

MJ was just a manchild. Even his psychological evaluation confirms this. In the end he was found not guilty.
 
You are aware that many of his family members that consisted of both boys and girls visited Neverland right? Taj Jackson and Brandi Jackson were regulars there who also knew Wade Robeson (Brandi was his girlfriend until he cheated on her). They repeatedly state that all that ever happened was that they would watch movies until they fell asleep. People act like he was spooning these kids in bed even though MJ would often sleep on the floor.

And in the 1993 case he did want to go to court but couldn't because he was on tour during that time. Evan Chandler attempted to ruin his career because MJ wasn't giving money anymore and that's how the first accusations came about. In every case it has always been about how much money could they get from MJ or his estate.

MJ was just a manchild. Even his psychological evaluation confirms this. In the end he was found not guilty.

There were plenty of people who came out in 2005 to say that a lot of the families leveling charges were known to extort out for money. One of the key defenses was that some of them already had a history of fraud. Want to say George Lopez was one of the celebrities who warned him and stood up in his defense.

Michael did sleep with kids (Macaulay Culkin admitted to it) and if you told me any other grown man was doing that with little boys, I would be firmly on the camp that he was a pedo. But MJ wasn't like grown men. Dude was a manchild like you said. He didn't grow up like normal kids and had a seriously fucked up life. I honestly believe that he believed that he was doing 'the right thing' in trying to give these children a loving, caring role model to look up to. Again, real fucking weird, but not pedophilia.

Also the arguments that MJ was playing 4D Chess with these kids and their families is absurd. MJ was a master at music... and that's about it. Everyone will sit here and say he's stupid enough to continue to sleep with kids over and over again and, and it costs him millions, but at the same time smart enough to 'brainwash' all these people.

At the end of the day, I feel like Michael spent his entire life feeling like everyone around him 'wanted' something from him. And one of the few times in his life he was able to be around people who just thought he was a kind, loving individual was when he was around children. And he got called a pedo for it during his life and had the news media cart around photos of him looking his absolute worst to make him look even fucking weirder. It's just a bunch of people picking on low-hanging fruit to me.
 
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