Knives Out - The new film by Rian "subverted expectations" Johnson

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Kathleen kennedy is more responsible for TLJ then Rian Johnson was imo. Johnson was quite happy to bring her vision to the screen. Pretty sure only the Rose and Finn sub plot were entirely Johnson's work and the rest of it was all Kennedy. It why it seemed like there were two movies happening at the same time. Because there was.
 
Not terrible, but things like that one scene where they're arguing about Drumpf is gonna date this thing abysmally.
 
Just got out of the movie.

It's actually pretty fun. It's compelling and well-shot, the writing was quirky but never overbearing, and it confirms my theory that Rian Johnson was just a poor fit for Star Wars as it's a better vehicle for his...what's that saying? "Toying with preconceived notions"?

Anyways, I recommend it if you're looking for a fun whodunit.
 
What's Daniel Craig's fake American accent like through this movie? The short clips in the trailer made it seem like about the borderline between a British actor doing a convincing American accent and going so totally over the top so that it doesn't actually sound like any real world regional accent.
 
What's Daniel Craig's fake American accent like through this movie? The short clips in the trailer made it seem like about the borderline between a British actor doing a convincing American accent and going so totally over the top so that it doesn't actually sound like any real world regional accent.
It's basically is to a Southern accent as Received Pronunciation is to British accents. I think he was going for genteel deep South but it's got a lot from outside of that region.

IDK, maybe I'm just letting real-world knowledge take me out of the movie, but once it became a thriller centered around the Hispanic immigrant with an illegal immigrant for a mother instead of Daniel Craig going on a whodunit all tension boiled out of the movie, because I knew there was literally no way in hell Johnson would let anything bad happen to her.
 
I just came home from the movie. Really solid satire of rich liberals and their culture. I know Johnson is one, but there's straight line deliveries that the movie clearly knows are bullshit. A white cuckservative quotes Hamilton (the musical not the actual guy) about hard working immigrants while everyone in the room is at least a third generation citizen, if not older. People keep mistaking the nurse's country of origin, and in the end they are as greedy and entitled as any upper middle class person born with a silver spoon in their mouth would be.

I like how both the terms Alt Right and SJW aren't given a lot of attention. It shows how meaningless and ingrained in the culture internet politics has become, and it helps that both of the people who hold these views aren't that loud. They're just going to school and shitposting on their phones.

About the will: I don't see it as virtue signalling. Within the context of the movie, Harlan's family has become pretty detached from him and he feels like he robbed many of them of self-actualization. Would Jamie Lee Curtis have the mettle to be truly successful in real estate if not for her father loaning her money? Would the girl pursuing an SJW degree keep trucking and go to a state school with normal people if her tuition wasn't being paid for without the looming concern of loans? Her mother's business is a failure without Harlan's money.

So you've got all these upper middle class liberals that should have their own income streams on lock down since they're all middle aged and yet if it weren't for the family patriarch they'd be fucked. Meanwhile you've got a nurse, who by nature of their job have to work hard, and she's willing to put in part time hours spending time with this old guy who doesn't need a lot of medical attention but does want companionship of a sort. I can absolutely see Harlan growing more attached to the likes of Marta over other family members (except maybe JLC's character). If my family was like Harlan's I probably wouldn't give them anything either.

Solid flick Reean, stay to non-franchise movies and become a name brand director my dude.
 
I like how both the terms Alt Right and SJW aren't given a lot of attention. It shows how meaningless and ingrained in the culture internet politics has become, and it helps that both of the people who hold these views aren't that loud. They're just going to school and shitposting on their phones.
You say that, but the teenage SJW stereotype character is ultimately shown to be "right."

About the will: I don't see it as virtue signalling. Within the context of the movie, Harlan's family has become pretty detached from him and he feels like he robbed many of them of self-actualization. Would Jamie Lee Curtis have the mettle to be truly successful in real estate if not for her father loaning her money? Would the girl pursuing an SJW degree keep trucking and go to a state school with normal people if her tuition wasn't being paid for without the looming concern of loans? Her mother's business is a failure without Harlan's money.
As I said earlier, it's the suicide that's the virtue signalling, not the will

So you've got all these upper middle class liberals that should have their own income streams on lock down since they're all middle aged and yet if it weren't for the family patriarch they'd be fucked. Meanwhile you've got a nurse, who by nature of their job have to work hard, and she's willing to put in part time hours spending time with this old guy who doesn't need a lot of medical attention but does want companionship of a sort. I can absolutely see Harlan growing more attached to the likes of Marta over other family members (except maybe JLC's character). If my family was like Harlan's I probably wouldn't give them anything either.

Solid flick Reean, stay to non-franchise movies and become a name brand director my dude.
I have enough objectivity to say that I could see what this movie was trying to be behind all the enforced SJWism (which comes from RJ's side, not the characters' side) and I do like *that.* However, ever since the stream-of-consciousness authors, or maybe earlier, leftist creators have had this attitude of "As storyteller, I am God and I can do whatever I want!" So RJ has a central character who is a kindhearted, selfless and unfailingly honest nurse--who just so happens to be daughter of illegal immigrant from [COUNTRY]. I mean, it's entirely possible that such a person can exist in real life, but we're talking about a microscopic needle in a haystack the size of Appalachia. The nurse's origins are a double entendre--it's both a proxy for low or humble beginnings, but is also a way that RJ can flex on his haters.
 
Based on trailers I went into this assuming a modern day version of Clue (1985). Take a stacked cast and make them play off each other in comical group settings. I was looking forward to this being that kind of fun popcorn film. Instead I got a boring who done it where that twist was mushroom stamped on the viewers face maybe 30 minutes in. The trailers really mislead the viewer to the style of movie they would be shown. Even without the trailer I found myself bored with the constant repetitive flashback method the story was told in. Almost 90 minutes in I felt like the revealing scene with the PI and nurse should have been the end of act 1.
The movie felt like it was constantly pulled in two opposing directions. The first direction was of a serious and cryptic who done it. While at the same time trying to be silly and self aware. The result was something that had me taking a nap in the middle and waking up to the end having missed nothing critical to the plot since they made sure to reiterate any point 4-6 times as to make sure no one got confused.
 
I really liked the movie. I'll admit though that I was fooled by the ending, primarily because:

I never actually thought that Christopher Plummer was dead; I figured the "twist" was that he faked all this. It wasn't until the medical building burned down for real that I even began to suspect he was actually dead.
 
I was disappointed, though I did like it. The film I wanted it to be was a lot more like the opening ten minutes, where you get introduced to this family and see how they deceive themselves and each other, and how that ties into the possibility of any of them being a suspect. I wanted a proper murder mystery, but it was being a bit too clever, and yet not as smart as it wanted to be.
I knew as soon as she couldn't find the curing drug for the morphine that someone had tampered with her bag, just as I knew as soon as the letter written to Jamie Lee Curtis by her dad was shown to be blank that there would be invisible ink writing on it. But both of those only pay off at the very end of the movie, so I spent the entire film waiting for those two shoes to drop. I did like that there was some smarts in the ending, but the fact that everything shown turned out to be important, every little line of dialogue, every throwaway detail, meant that the entire film felt more artificial.

I wanted more mess. I wanted more characters to really be suspects, especially after they all had their motives revealed. I wanted the family to not essentially disappear after the reading of the will. I thought the technique of having the lead character have a massive tell when she lied was a cop-out, and I would have loved the movie if at the end of it she'd pulled a bottle of Ipecac out of her bag and shown that she had been setting the stage for something like this all along. Talk about subverting expectations - I was hoping the killer would be someone off-kilter, or the detective would turn out to be a fool, or that she was much smarter than she let on. But no, the killer is the biggest name in the cast, the biggest asshole of a character that even the rest of his family hates, has the clearest motive, and gets caught because he has to be caught monologuing.

The Go board with its black and white morality was way too on-the-nose, and her being good at it was a sign of her goodness - it won't have been a coincidence that she played white. Again, it's not a bad movie - I did like watching her try and hide her tracks, and I thought that was an interesting way to tackle the crime solving. But I wanted red herrings and the potential perpetrator to shift around the family, or even the nurse's family (considering they're always watching murder shows), or the cops. I wanted the nurse to fight more for her freedom and her family's freedom by having to quickly learn how to manipulate the family and the cops, rather than only being a paragon of goodness. I didn't have a problem with her unwillingness to let a friend die was actually what got her out of trouble in the end, but having it explicitly stated that the reason she 'won' was because she was a good person was, like the Go, too on-the-nose.

It was a bit of a hollow film for me, because it didn't let the mystery element develop. The politics (and the implications of them I've already seen used by people who are all-in on the 'manbabies hate diversity' train) is really not a big part of the film, to the point that throwing around terms like SJW, snowflake and alt-right feels like a cover for actual proper character development, but it only really happens in a couple of scenes, and the entire family, left or right, is shown to be greedy, no matter their personal politics.

But don't go in expecting a Christie-style mystery and you'll likely enjoy it more than I did. All questions of The Last Jedi aside, I think Johnson has made some terrific films, and the cast is really good for this film, even if they don't all get enough to do.
 
I watched Knives Out about a week ago.

As others have said, it's a very well-shot, well-acted, and cleverly-plotted parody/homage to Agatha Christie whodunits. Johnson is a very talented director, and I hope he keeps making smaller films like these instead of big movies like TLJ (which I still haven't seen). This movie had a paltry $40 million dollar budget, and it looks fantastic, even better that the already good-looking, low-budget Rambo: Last Blood ($50 million). (It remains to be seen if Knives Out will prove profitable, but still... nice work.)

However... I went into the movie thinking of Johnson as a fucking loser, and my opinion on him hasn't changed. And the (otherwise very enjoyable) movie ultimately left a bad aftertaste in my mouth. Here's why. (This will contain the biggest plot spoilers imaginable, and I know I'm going to get puzzle pieces for this.)

A lot of the "controversial" plot elements in the film—the "alt-right troll" character, the talk about Trump (bless Johnson's little heart for trying so hard to seem evenhanded, by attempting to accurately articulate the right-leaning position against illegal immigration while pointing out the left's hysteria about muh Nazis... he failed, but he seems to have tried), the comments about SJWs, the protagonist being an illegal's anchor baby, etc.—all seem, once you're actually in the middle of the story, to be intentionally conspicuous MacGuffins. Within the narrative, these elements serve to ramp up the polarized nature of the Thrombey family and to distract from the central mystery (always an important thing to do in whodunits).

In the real world, a lot of the players in media and politics are trying to figure out how to harness the energy of clickbait/outrage culture for free advertising... and Johnson arguably succeeded at that in promoting Knives Out with his provocative pre-release comments.

(Aside: I think that very thing is also happening with Craig's next Bond box office bomb-in-the-making: carefully worded "leaks" that make it sound like Bond will be made a black woman which are then walked back as more of the plot comes out, relieving fans and creating instant, free advertising, discussion, and relevancy for an upcoming movie in a flagging franchise.)

But anyway, you go into Knives Out expecting TDS on steroids because Johnson is insufferable, then you find out things aren't THAT bad. Those elements exist to characterize the Thrombeys more than they exist to allow Johnson to thumb his nose at muh deplorables. Great, right?

... but I think if you step back and consider the themes and symbolism of Knives Out, all of those elements I mentioned at the top of the spoiler ultimately exist to achieve one symbolic moment in the film: what Chris Evans's character, Ransom, says when he thinks he's evaded defeat by our protagonist.

The basic gist of the speech is that Marta is an outsider to the family, someone who was accepted into and treated "just like a member of the family" (a phrase that's used so often throughout the film that you have to suspect it's a little disingenuous and patronizing). And yet she's so ungrateful that instead of doing "the right thing" and making sure the Thrombeys receive the legacy of their deserved birthright, she's going to "steal" it from them instead.

Consider a few points:

- Ransom is a blonde-haired, blue-eyed, Aryan-looking dude with a lantern jaw. He's a repulsive, duplicitous character of smug, entitled privilege. (He's also played by an insufferable, self-hating SJW faggot.)

- Marta is a doe-eyed, absurdly virtuous non-white anchor baby maid, a character who has come from nothing and has almost nothing until the patriarch's will leaves everything to her.

- The Thrombey family, aside from their privileged lifestyles, are depicted as diverse enough to cover both extremes of the partisan American political spectrum.

- Illegal immigration is specifically mentioned several times, as a defining aspect of Marta's background and origin and as a point of discussion/debate. Marta is subtley disrespected and talked down to even by the Thrombeys who don't mean her ill will.

- Craig's character specifically ridicules Ransom's claim to his family's ownership of the manor, saying they obtained it from some non-white (presumably immigrant) family in the past.

- Marta is depicted in the final shot as the new mistress of the manor and the entire Thrombey fortune, literally looking down on the former owners and deciding if she'll have mercy on them or not.

If you haven't connected the dots, let me spell it out:

- The manor, its accompanying fortune, and the legacy of the Thrombey publishing company represent America, American fortunes, and everything Americans have accomplished.

- The Thrombeys represent current Americans. They are privileged, white, of all political stripes, and are represent in the final scene by the worst individual among them: a white male. His (and their) claims to the family legacy are all presented as spurious.

- The female child of a non-white illegal immigrant becomes the inheritor of all of it because she is humble and perfectly virtuous and therefore deserves it.

- Marta, who according to the plot most definitely has the most moral claim to what she's been given, has to decide if she's going to completely disinherit the Thrombeys of everything they used to own or to leave them entirely dispossessed.

This final series of scenes is a mortifying, patronizing, racist "noble savage" fantasy about perfect, virtuous non-whites taking over the country. Johnson is such a good "progressive" he's smugly thumbing his nose at white Americans (and that's all of them, not just Evil Trump Supporters, for the sin of white privilege) over the threat of demographic replacement... and he goes so far as depicting the progressive sadomasochistic fantasy of non-whites having all the social and financial power (thanks in part to illegal immigration, which only those lacking compassion would oppose!) so they can satisfyingly decide the fate of the previous holders of power: to either treat them "fairly" or completely disenfranchise them... both of which they will have the moral right to do.

This is straight up intersectional, crypto-Marxist, identity politics symbolism. It's placed there in Johnson's film so he can virtue signal to the people who "get it" and so he can, with plausible deniability, mock his enemies for his own amusement and their "overreaction" to his whodunit. You know, kind of like the obnoxious social media trolls he claims to hate because they're just so awful and mean-spirited!


Go on, hand me my "autistic" ratings. But all of that is in the movie, and there's no question this shit was placed there for a reason. Rewatch the film with all this in mind and you'll see it very clearly.

TL;DR: Johnson is a huge, hyper-leftist faggot. But even huge, hyper-leftist faggots can be talented entertainers (Hollywood would be bankrupt otherwise), and he made an enjoyable movie in spite of the cringeworthy extreme leftist symbolism he couldn't help but shove into it.
 
Última edición:
I just saw the film and I'd give it a 7/10.

The reveal of who did it and how felt underwhelming as it seemed a bit predictable. I also felt Marta's character could've had more depth cause all we know of her (excluding her background) is that she's just a normal person who is kindhearted (which the film repeats a lot) and that she throws up when she lies, so I wished she had more of a character to her.

The politics were handled pretty well surprisingly as it felt it was handled in a somewhat realistic manner compared to most movies that have current politics involved.

The other characters are really great, and everyone in the cast gave pretty solid performances, though I wished the mystery was handled a bit better, but I can see this being a good introduction to the mystery genre to many people.
 
I just watched this.

Not a great film, the political stuff is cringy and as frozenrunner points out, I understood the message of the movie loud and clear and didn't like it.

But it is still a pretty entertaining movie, though I wish it was more of a real whodunit than a "subversion" of the genre, but I did love the set design (it had to be influenced by the 1970s movie Sleuth, right?)

At least if you're going to make a movie about the demographic replacement of whites in America with Hispanics using someone as beautiful as Ana De Armas to represent that makes it a little easier to swallow.
 
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