Illegal Immigrants and you - Are illegals really that big of a problem?

[mindlessobserver]

I thought America had one of the least welfare states in the western world.

Actually, America has one of the best welfare systems on the planet, if you are dirt poor. Below a certain income threshold, you get free healthcare, free food, and free housing with all electric/water included. Admittedly, the housing is a bit shit and the food is limited in options, but you can live your entire life and not have to work on it. In my city, there are a few government run housing blocks, and every family in them has a flat screen TV and other amenities since whatever cash they do make can be spent entirely on luxuries. There is a work requirement for staying in these programs, but there is no real standard set for what it should be, so many just do a contractor job once a week for a few hours filling in pot holes, or painting a wall or something, just to get a paystub to show they are gainfully employed. All the moaning about malnourished children in America is not the fault of the Government. The drug addicted parents traded all there welfare bucks for drugs. The drug dealers make a killing too, as the street exchange rate of food vouchers for money is extortion to the max.

That issue aside, there is no incentive to do more, because if they start making more money they will no longer qualify for the free healthcare, free food, and free housing. This has created a huge incentive problem. An economy NEEDS an underclass. Someone has to clean the ditches after all, and those danger haired freaks coming out of university with womens studies degrees are certainly not going to do it. Problem is our underclass has a cradle to grave welfare system firmly in place. So nobody legal is going to clean the ditches or pick the cotton. Illegal immigrants on the other can't get access to our welfare system (they are illegal). So they HAVE to work to live.

When economists say illegal immigrants are necessary for our economy they are not wrong per se, but they are lying by omission.

 

[Medicated]

Below a certain income threshold, you get free healthcare, free food, and free housing with all electric/water included.

I went to read up about it.

TANF is the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program. Most people refer to this program as welfare. On average, TANF provided income to 2.5 million recipients in 2017. Of these, 1.9 million were children.

In 2016, TANF assisted only 23 percent of the families living in poverty. On average, a three-person family received $447 a month. Despite this help, they still live below the poverty line.

Families who receive TANF must get a job within two years. They might not get more money if they have another child. They can own no more than $2,000 in total assets. They can only receive TANF for five years or less in some states.

Apparently the free housing wait line is very long or closed due to the number of applications. So I don't think things are very easy to get into.

I'd say the largest expenditure in social security happens here:

Medicaid paid for health care for 64.9 million low-income adults in 2014. The largest share, which was 50 percent, went to 29.5 million children. Next, it covered 19.2 million adults, mostly parents of these children. It pays for 40 percent of all U.S. births.

Medicaid also paid health expenses for 9.8 million blind and disabled people. The smallest category was 5.4 million low-income seniors. It paid for any health costs that Medicare didn't cover.

The Affordable Care Act increased Medicaid coverage by 28 percent. It raised the income level and allowed single adults to qualify.

Child's Health Insurance Program. In addition to Medicaid, 6 million children received additional benefits from CHIP. It covers hospital care, medical supplies, and tests. It also provides preventive care, such as eye exams, dental care, and regular check-ups.

 

[mindlessobserver]

There is also the food assistance program, section 8 housing assistance, WIC etc

 

[Erwin Rotten]

It's better than Mexico's, which is "Go about your daily life and get beheaded by a cartel enforcer."

A nurse complained to me once that illegals can't be denied emergency medical treatment and of course, get it for free.

Mexico surprisingly has a welfare system, that they call Prospera, and it isn't that good since you have to put money in to get money out, and what you get is like $200 a month average. It's mostly just to put children in school because of the incredibly high illiteracy in Mexico, as well as the fact that school isn't public everywhere and only people in a city need to pass high school.

What truly sucks about Mexico is that if you're on welfare or in a big city, the government can turn off your water or cut your electricity whenever they want. You're their bitch, especially if it's something political. So it's either put up with police that bother you for $10 or live in the village where nobody can read or write.

I thought America had one of the least welfare states in the western world.

The US is not at all the least welfare states in the western world. To start, it's the biggest one in the Americas, both in amount of people who use a welfare program and cost of its use. 80 million citizens are on welfare. The US gets over 10 million legal immigrants every year, with half going on welfare (5 million). To put it in perspective, the amount of people on welfare in the US is larger than the entire population of Germany, and it costs more per person than welfare recipients in Germany because of the lower living cost in Germany.

The US spends about $1 trillion in welfare, while Canada spends $276.8 billion, Germany and France about $800 billion. However, this doesn't include social security for the US, which is so much it has to take from other tax sources in order to fund itself (identity theft by illegals doesn't help).

 

[Meat Poultry Veg]

Mexico surprisingly has a welfare system, that they call Prospera, and it isn't that good since you have to put money in to get money out, and what you get is like $200 a month average. It's mostly just to put children in school because of the incredibly high illiteracy in Mexico, as well as the fact that school isn't public everywhere and only people in a city need to pass high school.

I was being facetious of course, but you helped refine my point.

 

[Trans-istor]

The illegal immigration problem really betrays Mexico's corruption. The politicians are doing everything they can to ship off the lower echelons of Mexican society (which at this point really is about 99% of people) to el norte and hope that stems revolutionary sentiment. And it's working. And while that's going on it's costing us $4 billion to educate their kids alone, let alone all the other things we do while 'Nam vets die homeless in the streets.

Instead of focusing on our own people, we're shipping in new ones because... reasons. I guess it's better to let 100,000 white men starve than one brown one. Even if that brown one starving one day kicks off a chain of events that leads to that problem being solved. $4 billion goes to our schools and straight into the hands of the children of people who legally shouldn't even get that benefit.

Where I diverge in the general thinking on this topic is what rights the kids have. Personally, I believe the children should be let back in if they wish to do so legally. I have this position because I know exactly how it feels to be chained to someone living in a foreign place you'd rather not; I haven't stepped foot in Tennessee in a couple of years and even now I wish I could go back. Similarly, these kids have 0 say in where they live. Being born at the wrong time isn't a crime, dipshit, I'm sorry you think the law is so anal that legal minors who can barely say the A-B-Cs (whether or not that means they're 3) can become felons.

TL;DR ship them back and use American resources for Americans. We can Make Mexico Great Again by forcing Mexicans to face revolutionary sentiment and actually act upon it, in this case, by not having any alternative. It's not like international politics does a lot when you're in the back pocket of drug cartels so powerful they can murder mayors in essentially broad daylight and get away scot-free.

 

[Meat Poultry Veg]

In any other era of history, what Mexico is doing would constitute a causus belli and USA would rightly declare them an enemy.

We're basically fighting Mexican American War 2.0, only the aggressor is Mexico this time.

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

There is also the food assistance program, section 8 housing assistance, WIC etc

But this shit is hard to get into, @Medicated is right. What you end up with is a class of people whose job is getting into welfare programs. They probably expend as much if not more effort working through the bureaucratic mire and getting loopholes and favors as a danger haired Starbucks barista expends making cis white women morbidly obese.

In any other era of history, what Mexico is doing would constitute a causus belli and USA would rightly declare them an enemy.

We're basically fighting Mexican American War 2.0, only the aggressor is Mexico this time.

They were the aggressor last time too. I mean yeah, we baited them into it hard. But they still took the bait. It was the 19th century, it's just how things were then. Hate the game, not the player.

 

[WW 635]

Any time we catch am illegal immigrant, usually when they try to take advantage of the welfare system, we just deport them back to the United States

 

[John Titor]

I'm generally sympathetic to anyone who wants to start a new life here in the US. That Penn and Teller episode about immigration somewhat reflects what I think. However, there's the reality that can't be ignored: we can barely take care of our own, it's not fair for people who came here the legal way and there are some people who cross borders are not looking for the American Dream (read: cartels hoping to sell their wares [also read: drugs]).

 

[Joan Nyan]

Our legal immigration system should in practically everyone who a. isn't a member of a terror group or cartel, b. doesn't have TB, and c. isn't going to be on welfare. But anyone who tries to sneak in and bypass our system is a hostile invader.

 

[ES 148]

Immigrants are a Jewish myth

 

[S'tasaulk]

Our legal immigration system should in practically everyone who a. isn't a member of a terror group or cartel, b. doesn't have TB, and c. isn't going to be on welfare. But anyone who tries to sneak in and bypass our system is a hostile invader.

Typically for legal immigration they cannot be on government assistance for at least a year. Granted this was in 1989 and the person also had to be sponsored for the first year and that they didn't have HIV/AIDS, TB, and other had other bloodwork done. Tis more of an interrogation than interview as well.

 

[Rand /pol/]

Our legal immigration system should in practically everyone who a. isn't a member of a terror group or cartel, b. doesn't have TB, and c. isn't going to be on welfare. But anyone who tries to sneak in and bypass our system is a hostile invader.

What about people who don't speak English, or have a different religion.

 

[Joan Nyan]

What about people who don't speak English

Good point, they need to know enough English to know what the laws are and how not to break them.

or have a different religion.

Different than what? America doesn't have a state religion.

 

[dopy]

just reported some for looking at me funny at the grocery store

 

[queerape]

Our legal immigration system should in practically everyone who a. isn't a member of a terror group or cartel, b. doesn't have TB, and c. isn't going to be on welfare. But anyone who tries to sneak in and bypass our system is a hostile invader.

Do you think then the problem may be it's too hard to get in legally/ there is not enough ways to get in legally? How do you feel about the current selectivity of the system?

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

for the people all the criminals are obviously a major catastrophe, but the economy does not even register them.

Not entirely true, but in reverse of what you'd think.
In might not be the case in the US, but the way GDP (Gross Domestic Product, probably one of the main indicators of economic wellness) is calculated is not standardized. Some countries count criminal enterprises toward their GDP.
So it may be the case that those 99 criminals "Help the economy" more than the one who's working, since criminal enterprise tends to involve bigger dollar amounts.

However, like I said, I don't know if the US includes criminal money toward its GDP. Italy does, if it didn't they'd have half the GDP for instance.

 

[Manah]

It's pretty bad for everyone involved. It's a shame that the immigration process for a lot of countries is so slow, though.

 

[Mrs Paul]

It's an issue, but not nearly to the point Trump seems to be making it out to be. I think the dude is getting seriously paranoid. If only because we have a lot more pressing issues to deal with.
Some of the real victims are the kids who get dragged here, and then they get punished for what their parents do. That doesn't sit right with me. Maybe I'm too much of a softy.

And I'm not trying to be one of those "AMERIKKKA SUX!!!" but we're partly to blame, at least for the conditions in Latin America. You can't support dictators and exploit the people for generations, and then just turn around and say, "Okay, sorry about that -- no hard feelings, right?"
(In some places, things only started to improve after the end of the Cold War.) History has a ripple effect.*

That being said, it's not something that can just be solved by saying, "okay, c'mon in, ,we'll take care of you!" We can barely take care of some of our own. I feel bad for a lot of these people, but we can't be the saviors of the world. It's one of those problems that's not easily solved, but it's not necessarily soly our duty, either.

Do you think then the problem may be it's too hard to get in legally/ there is not enough ways to get in legally? How do you feel about the current selectivity of the system?

I think that might be an issue. I don't think open borders are the answer, but make the immigration process too hard and you only encourage people to try bypass it.




*I took a couple of courses in Latin American history in college and one of my professors was involved in Central American issues. He and his wife were friends with an American missionary who was killed by paramilitaries in Guatemala.