Heathers - A Failure of an 80's reboot

[Doctor of Autism]

I’m going to watch the show too just out of curiosity to see how bad it is but will do so without supporting Paramount.

 

[Steamboat_Bill]

Paramounts website hasn't forced me to disable adblock, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Anyway, I did just watch the second episode and... wow, is it awful.
Seriously, I know we all thought that this was going to be bad and the pilot that was released months ago wasn't promising, but this was on another level. It's trying to copy the comedic sociopathy of the original, but it's so exaggerated that it can't be even remotely funny. This show doesn't even know the meaning of the word subtlety.

(Not bothering with a spoiler tab because I doubt anyone cares)
I mean, we see Betty Finn literally throw a "mourning party" for Heather at a Roller Rink. The original Heathers worked because the ways in which the students and teachers alike tried to exploit the "suicides" were actually kind of realistic, not some ridiculous nonsense that doesn't even make sense in context. There's even more bafflingly stupid things that have to be seen to be believed, such as a horrendous scene in which MacNamara's parents list all the reasons that she would have to commit suicide and end with "we just wanted to make sure that you're not thinking about it," and another with the school principal openly covering for a sex offender in front of a whole room. Then the episode ends with a ludicrous scene mirroring Heather M's near suicide from the original, except this time it's with a mirror shard and she bleeds gallons of blood out onto the roller rink, and she stays conscious through it all.

Though I have to admit, my huge fandom of the Heathers musical and my affinity for "so fucking dreadful that it's entertaining to see how awful it is" media has me interested to see how the rest of it turns out.

Dear fucking God.

Didn't I say it'd suck, though?

 

[AnOminous]

Though I have to admit, my huge fandom of the Heathers musical and my affinity for "so fucking dreadful that it's entertaining to see how awful it is" media has me interested to see how the rest of it turns out.

Not exactly a shocker that it's terrible. Not much is "so bad it's good" when it's shitting all over something that already exists and was good and didn't need to be gnawed on by some cheap cash-in.

Part of the charm of the original is it didn't start out full psycho. The initial murders made it look like J.D. actually had a point and, like Veronica, the audience is willing to go along with it for now. It's also one of the few movies where Christian Slater's dime store Jack Nicholson thing works, Pump Up the Volume being another.

 

[Grand Lunar]

Watched two thirds of it.

Spoiler: The story so far...

It's certainly cringey a lot. Everyone in it is terrible, and anything nice someone does is basically a sign things are going to go to shit for them. The parents are all awful, with the possible exception of Veronica's parents, whose seeming disinterest in their daughter's life later seems to be fear, because - double spoiler - about halfway through the series Veronica is shown to be as much as if not more of a psycho than JD, including having killed another girl when they were kids. Yeah, it diverts from the plot of the film substantially. It had to, though, but ten hours is also a very long time to try and sustain the original's tone, and they certainly don't succeed in that.

They don't lean into the SJW-bully side of things enough, to be honest - other than the pilot, they're really just the mean girls but more diverse, and the way actual SJWs bully people isn't the same as how the Heathers do it. Overall, they manage some successful moments of the black, campy satire they're apparently going for; Heather McNamara's parents and her subsequent suicide are done quite effectively, for example. But in general what it gets right, mostly from the first two episodes, it can't really sustain. There's some good lines, mostly from Heather Chandler, and Selma Blair and Casey Wilson are having fun with their bit parts, but other than that it's fairly forgettable. Supporting characters come and go, ideas aren't really well developed, and while some of the dialogue is fun it doesn't always work in the context of a conversation.

Changes from the original, besides the whole SJW aspect, include Kurt being openly gay and secretly hooking up with the genderqueer Heather Duke, with the realistic touch of Kurt being a dumb white male jock meaning that, to the SJW Heathers, he's not oppressed enough to treat well even though he's gay. Both Kurt and Ram can be nice, rather than being the perma-asshole rapists they basically are in the film, and only Ram has been murdered so far, purely because JD was jealous of Veronica paying attention to him. Heather Chandler survives the murder attempt, but Heather McNamara succeeds in her suicide. Betty Finn, now a stereotypical overachieving Asian, becomes popular for a while in the wake of Heather Chandler's 'death', and she naturally is just as self-obsessed when popular as the Heathers are.

There's more, but the worst thing about it is it makes numerous allusions to the original film, which stand out quite poorly considering the quality differential. If they'd tried to separate it more from the film, done their own spin and developed the whole SJW oppression stack as a source of bullying and control, even the way cults of personality can develop based on such things, they could have really modernised and been a truly subversive satire. Instead, there's a line of dialogue that also sums up the show - 'you're as deep as a college poster'. 'Everyone is horrible' can't really sustain a tv show without a lot more skill than this version of Heathers possesses.

Well, I finished it. Or at least, all of what was available. Episode 10 hasn't been released in America for whatever reason, and I can't find it posted anywhere that I would consider safe, so so far I've just settled for the episode plot summary and a clip of the ending that's been posted on youtube.

Over all, I don't even know what they were going for. Most of it wasn't even really about the Heathers, they stay in the background having their own little back and forth war for control with their rivals, while Veronica and J.D. compete with each other to see who can be the bigger psycho. The fact that neither of them have any clear motivation in this version other than chaos just makes it an absolute trainwreck. I guess that there were a few aspects that were interesting: the new Heather Chandler actually isn't terrible on her own, and her more direct battles with J.D. could have been good if they were done in a better show. But the structure is too irreparably broken for any of it to matter, with no clear plotline, true character development, or even character goals.

Ultimately, the most satisfying part of the show is the ending. Of course, spoiler warning here for anyone who cares.

Spoiler: How the show ends, and why it's the "best" part

Everyone dies except for Heather Chandler, because Veronica and J.D. end up actually enacting the plot from the original. The rest of the student body goes to heaven in the form of a prom, but Veronica and J.D. essentially go to hell, unable to be heard by anyone including each other. Since both are awful, evil, irredeemable people in this version, they at least had the sense to give us the only ending that their characters deserved. Having the song "Is That All There Is" play in the background was a genuinely well fitting touch as well.

 

[Steamboat_Bill]

Well, I finished it. Or at least, all of what was available. Episode 10 hasn't been released in America for whatever reason, and I can't find it posted anywhere that I would consider safe, so so far I've just settled for the episode plot summary and a clip of the ending that's been posted on youtube.

Over all, I don't even know what they were going for. Most of it wasn't even really about the Heathers, they stay in the background having their own little back and forth war for control with their rivals, while Veronica and J.D. compete with each other to see who can be the bigger psycho. The fact that neither of them have any clear motivation in this version other than chaos just makes it an absolute trainwreck. I guess that there were a few aspects that were interesting: the new Heather Chandler actually isn't terrible on her own, and her more direct battles with J.D. could have been good if they were done in a better show. But the structure is too irreparably broken for any of it to matter, with no clear plotline, true character development, or even character goals.

Ultimately, the most satisfying part of the show is the ending. Of course, spoiler warning here for anyone who cares.

Spoiler: How the show ends, and why it's the "best" part

Everyone dies except for Heather Chandler, because Veronica and J.D. end up actually enacting the plot from the original. The rest of the student body goes to heaven in the form of a prom, but Veronica and J.D. essentially go to hell, unable to be heard by anyone including each other. Since both are awful, evil, irredeemable people in this version, they at least had the sense to give us the only ending that their characters deserved. Having the song "Is That All There Is" play in the background was a genuinely well fitting touch as well.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=teXBwPaNZLY

You know, this isn't even how I expected this to go out. I was fairly certain, considering that the Heathers are SJWs, J.D. would turn out to be an alt-righter. Didn't happen. Neither did I expect that Veronica would turn out to be as psychotic as J.D. was.

I have no idea what the hell they were going for in all this. I really do not. They missed the point of the original by a country mile.

 

[One Man Bland]

You know, this isn't even how I expected this to go out. I was fairly certain, considering that the Heathers are SJWs, J.D. would turn out to be an alt-righter. Didn't happen. Neither did I expect that Veronica would turn out to be as psychotic as J.D. was.

I have no idea what the hell they were going for in all this. I really do not. They missed the point of the original by a country mile.

This seems like this disconnect was caused by the desire to shoe-horn a bunch of diversity into the cast, but also couldn't reconcile those changes effect the characterization of the original while trying to entice an SJW audience. It's like watching the Guybrush Effect in action: they can't have the new Heathers truly act like the alpha bitches that made them popular in the original because it's seen as punching down, so the only "acceptable" targets to completely villainize are JD and ironically Veronica. But in order to make that work you basically gotta butcher Veronica's character, and lose the original story and the message in the process.

 

[Trilby]

You know, this isn't even how I expected this to go out. I was fairly certain, considering that the Heathers are SJWs, J.D. would turn out to be an alt-righter. Didn't happen. Neither did I expect that Veronica would turn out to be as psychotic as J.D. was.

I have no idea what the hell they were going for in all this. I really do not. They missed the point of the original by a country mile.

Well good to know my fond memories of the movie are not challenged by this slop.

 

[AnOminous]

But in order to make that work you basically gotta butcher Veronica's character, and lose the original story and the message in the process.

This is why SJW "reboots" are such utter cancer. They never give a flying fuck about the original and often don't seem even to like it. Even if they do, though, any faithfulness to the original work or even respect for it falls by the wayside because everything, even quality, is completely subordinate to sending some shitty message that can go fuck itself.

 

[Zaryiu]

I read the sypnosys for the movie and this version and i just got one thing to say: Wtf?

 

[Grand Lunar]

You know, this isn't even how I expected this to go out. I was fairly certain, considering that the Heathers are SJWs, J.D. would turn out to be an alt-righter. Didn't happen. Neither did I expect that Veronica would turn out to be as psychotic as J.D. was.

I have no idea what the hell they were going for in all this. I really do not. They missed the point of the original by a country mile.

Based on the ending, I figured that it might have been meant as a fuck you to people who sympathize with or even romanticize murderers and terrorists. Veronica and J.D. are shown to be psychos who either just enjoy killing or, like most real life mass murderers, hope to leave their mark on the world and feel glorified in some way. And of course, they kill themselves (or at least Veronica does, I didn't get to see the full last episode but I think she does kill J.D. in this version) as a means of escaping any consequences for their actions. But then the show makes a point to take this away from them, showing us that they get to rot in hell for all eternity as all people like them deserve. The song "Is That All There Is," about a woman who refuses to commit suicide because she knows that death could never be the romantic/poetic end that it's made out to be, actually suits this ending perfectly.

The trouble is that nothing about the show leads up to this at all. The original sets up the pretense that J.D.'s actions have some sort of noble purpose, then gradually chips away at it and lets Veronica come to the conclusion that he's nothing but a psychotic attention seeker that the world would be better off without. This one kind of starts the same way, reveals that Veronica is a psycho too that's attracted to J.D.'s willingness to casually murder people for no reason, tries to go back to the idea that they want to kill people for justice or whatever, then has Veronica have second thoughts again and get tired of J.D.'s evil. The "I need cool guys like you out of my life" line is still inserted as if it should have any weight, but makes no sense because Veronica is just all over the place with no consistency. It's almost kind of sad, since I do like the dark ending of Veronica and J.D. being forced to face the consequences of their actions and being denied the perverted "glory" that they craved, but the writers had no idea how to craft a coherent narrative to get us there.

This seems like this disconnect was caused by the desire to shoe-horn a bunch of diversity into the cast, but also couldn't reconcile those changes effect the characterization of the original while trying to entice an SJW audience. It's like watching the Guybrush Effect in action: they can't have the new Heathers truly act like the alpha bitches that made them popular in the original because it's seen as punching down, so the only "acceptable" targets to completely villainize are JD and ironically Veronica. But in order to make that work you basically gotta butcher Veronica's character, and lose the original story and the message in the process.

They don't really do anything with the SJW theme past the first episode, and the Heathers (plus their newly added rivals) more or less just act like typical backstabbing alpha bitches through out. The show doesn't even consider them important, since Veronica and J.D. actually ignore them for most of it. It's actually a pretty close parallel to the Netflix disaster Insatiable, which also had some cheap SJW bait in the advertising to drum up controversy and get anti-SJWs and SJWs alike to watch it, but dropped it pretty quickly and never actually did much with it in the actual show, instead choosing to insert a bunch of crazy and trashy content just to be edgy and induce shock value. You know that you're show is god awful when it serves as a discount version of Insatiable of all things.

 

[Dysnomia]

Paramounts website hasn't forced me to disable adblock, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Anyway, I did just watch the second episode and... wow, is it awful.
Seriously, I know we all thought that this was going to be bad and the pilot that was released months ago wasn't promising, but this was on another level. It's trying to copy the comedic sociopathy of the original, but it's so exaggerated that it can't be even remotely funny. This show doesn't even know the meaning of the word subtlety.

(Not bothering with a spoiler tab because I doubt anyone cares)
I mean, we see Betty Finn literally throw a "mourning party" for Heather at a Roller Rink. The original Heathers worked because the ways in which the students and teachers alike tried to exploit the "suicides" were actually kind of realistic, not some ridiculous nonsense that doesn't even make sense in context. There's even more bafflingly stupid things that have to be seen to be believed, such as a horrendous scene in which MacNamara's parents list all the reasons that she would have to commit suicide and end with "we just wanted to make sure that you're not thinking about it," and another with the school principal openly covering for a sex offender in front of a whole room. Then the episode ends with a ludicrous scene mirroring Heather M's near suicide from the original, except this time it's with a mirror shard and she bleeds gallons of blood out onto the roller rink, and she stays conscious through it all.

Though I have to admit, my huge fandom of the Heathers musical and my affinity for "so fucking dreadful that it's entertaining to see how awful it is" media has me interested to see how the rest of it turns out.

I am in no way surprised that it's that bad. But the dumb teens watching it have no taste anyway. What can you expect?

When the "suicides" happen in the film the faculty quickly exploits it for awareness brownie points with few people actually seeing through the whole charade. There's even a theme song. "Teenage Suicide Don't Do It".

It's lame and disrespectful. And the viewer, Veronica and a few others know this. Everyone else is caught up in being protowoke. They have no idea what's really going on.

Remember "I love my gay son!"?

The parents didn't know their kids at all. No one even thought to have the suicides investigated. Even the gay jock one that was highly suspect. The cops see the bag with the mineral water and stuff and immediately write it off as a gay suicide pact between two closeted jocks who somehow decided it was best to off themselves in the woods while wearing nothing but underwear. The adults took everything at face value because they were a direct satire of how teens feel about their parents and other authority figures not really knowing them or caring.

If you just turn that into really blatant stupidity it doesn't work. That's not how you do suburban satire.

 

[One Man Bland]

They don't really do anything with the SJW theme past the first episode, and the Heathers (plus their newly added rivals) more or less just act like typical backstabbing alpha bitches through out. The show doesn't even consider them important, since Veronica and J.D. actually ignore them for most of it. It's actually a pretty close parallel to the Netflix disaster Insatiable, which also had some cheap SJW bait in the advertising to drum up controversy and get anti-SJWs and SJWs alike to watch it, but dropped it pretty quickly and never actually did much with it in the actual show, instead choosing to insert a bunch of crazy and trashy content just to be edgy and induce shock value. You know that you're show is god awful when it serves as a discount version of Insatiable of all things.

In that case I don't think the executives really get that you can't market your product to SJWs with controversy and then hope they'll go away once the controversy's been drummed up. Not only do SJWs typically never support product financially, but if they find even one thing to harp on they'll REEE until your product is either six feet under or until it stops being personally beneficial to them to do so.

 

[AnOminous]

cheap SJW bait

This means ignore it, though, at least until people see it and are saying it's actually good, since you can only trust word of mouth these days. All the reviewers are crooks and all the meta-sites are rigged.

 

[Steamboat_Bill]

This means ignore it, though, at least until people see it and are saying it's actually good, since you can only trust word of mouth these days. All the reviewers are crooks and all the meta-sites are rigged.

In this case, not even they liked it, so you can easily trust the reviewers.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

I like how they turned one of the jocks into an actual gay kid who is dating a guy pretending to be a girl for brownie points who is supposed to be Heather Duke. It's like they never understood any of the characters at all even the surface level sexist jocks.

 

[Grand Lunar]

I like how they turned one of the jocks into an actual gay kid who is dating a guy pretending to be a girl for brownie points who is supposed to be Heather Duke. It's like they never understood any of the characters at all even the surface level sexist jocks.

It was pretty odd how they changed Kurt and Ram into two of the only genuinely nice characters in the whole show. In this version, Veronica goes on a date with Ram just to make J.D. jealous. It turns out that he's incredibly sweet, and that he laid out a whole picnic for Veronica and decorated a bridge with lights just to make it romantic. J.D. then murders him in cold blood just because he's jealous, and Veronica essentially reacts with "awwwww I knew you really cared." They seemingly did this just so that Veronica and J.D. could have some innocent victims and come across as heartless as possible.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

It was pretty odd how they changed Kurt and Ram into two of the only genuinely nice characters in the whole show. In this version, Veronica goes on a date with Ram just to make J.D. jealous. It turns out that he's incredibly sweet, and that he laid out a whole picnic for Veronica and decorated a bridge with lights just to make it romantic. J.D. then murders him in cold blood just because he's jealous, and Veronica essentially reacts with "awwwww I knew you really cared." They seemingly did this just so that Veronica and J.D. could have some innocent victims and come across as heartless as possible.

Yeah and they did the same by making Heather Chandler a nicer person too. Like it could work by showing she has nice qualities under her bitchy facade but it failed.

 

[Grand Lunar]

Yeah and they did the same by making Heather Chandler a nicer person too. Like it could work by showing she has nice qualities under her bitchy facade but it failed.

Yeah, like everything else in the show it wasn't done well. Though, Heather Chandler probably still had the closest thing to a consistent character arc out of any of them. She is somewhat nicer in the episodes following her temporary bonding with Trailer Parker (the new Martha), and (from the clips that I've seen, still haven't been able to find a posting of the finale on a safe website) does the right thing at the end by giving up the opportunity to hijack the tragedy for her own gain. Another thing that actually could have been a decent payoff with better execution.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

Yeah, like everything else in the show it wasn't done well. Though, Heather Chandler probably still had the closest thing to a consistent character arc out of any of them. She is somewhat nicer in the episodes following her temporary bonding with Trailer Parker (the new Martha), and (from the clips that I've seen, still haven't been able to find a posting of the finale on a safe website) does the right thing at the end by giving up the opportunity to hijack the tragedy for her own gain. Another thing that actually could have been a decent payoff with better execution.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_VOu8-dZYo4

Yeah surprisingly, she is probably the only good thing about the show even if it's not the best.

 

[Grand Lunar]

Yeah surprisingly, she is probably the only good thing about the show even if it's not the best.

Yeah, that and the fact that Veronica and J.D. at least get their comeuppance at the end. Out of curiousity, have you actually watched most of it? And have you seen or know where to find the finale?