Fallout series

[biguglyboy]

I mean, what's the point of even conducting that experiment when doing so requires a fucking NUCLEAR HOLOCAUST to happen after which who's going to launch space shuttles? The fucking NCR?!

I might be crazy, because I've not been able to find anything to collaborate this in recent years, but I was under the impression that Vault-Tec was pretty much fleecing the government doing all these subsidized vault projects when internally they never expected the bombs to actually drop. And then that idea would mesh with the space travel experiment one since whatever shady proto-Enclave shadow government still wants to get off thier resource deprived planet.
That's all clearly gone out the window by now, even before all the retardation of the TV show, since it also relies on the idea that people were populating the vaults in preparation to the expected nukes, and not rushing in only once they started dropping during the hustle and bustle of the apocalypse, which to me is the only way that makes sense. I think they might have lightly touched before, but then along comes the obvious example of Fallout 4 that puts you right into the evacuation. Even then I still think you could argue that actually supports the vault must have been pre populated to some extent. Otherwise are we supposed to concluded that the whole of the test population are the dozen or so people that made it in during last call in the minutes of warning?

 

[demicolon]

I might be crazy, because I've not been able to find anything to collaborate this in recent years, but I was under the impression that Vault-Tec was pretty much fleecing the government doing all these subsidized vault projects when internally they never expected the bombs to actually drop. And then that idea would mesh with the space travel experiment one since whatever shady proto-Enclave shadow government still wants to get off thier resource deprived planet.

Cain said it himself below:

and I revisited it just to be sure.

Really, there was not one egghead at the Evil Overlord shareholder meeting who went "Well ackshually Mr. President, every NASA site will be directly hit with a ground burst warhead so we will have, umm, a bit of a problem making enough rocket fuel, rockets, everything necessary to make a generational ship, probably for hundreds of years after the war."

I don't like the ripoff theory much, either. Too modern and Reaganomics-like, we're talking 50s America space race where the gubmint went all-out to put Man on the Moon to rub the fact into Russkies' noses forever. Maybe there was some kind of subcontractor corner-cutting during that but I didn't hear anything like that and doubt Moon landing would be possible if it happened.

Nothing definitive in original on why some Vaults (like 8) malfunctioned; AFAIR the player is supposed to assume plain incompetence with a touch of "some ignored the air sirens until it was too late".

I wonder how much truth is to Cain's claims that he didn't really work on Fallout 2 and all the stuff fans of 1 complained about was not his fault.

 

[TheHarbinger]

I wonder how much truth is to Cain's claims that he didn't really work on Fallout 2 and all the stuff fans of 1 complained about was not his fault.

He's just the politically acceptable face for the franchise. People like Fargo or Avellone built the actual franchise. Fargo was the one who put the first Fallout game into development after he lost the Wasteland IP to EA. He even came up with the name Fallout. Avellone was the lore expert who wrote the Fallout bibles (both the public and internal ones). And Chris Taylor was the leader designer of Fallout before Feargus took over for Fallout 2.

At one point Chris Taylor was working on Fallout Online which was an MMORPG set in the wastelands. This ended up resulting in a huge drawn out lawsuit between Bethesda and Interplay. Where eventually Bethesda and Interplay had spent millions in legal fees each and Interplay finally surrendered the entire Fallout IP to Bethesda. And eventually Bethesda would make Fallout 76 which used a lot of ideas from the canceled Fallout Online.

 

[biguglyboy]

Well when I say "fleeced" I didn't envision in the crooked contractors sense like Sierra Madre. More that they're getting all these juicy government contracts even though they don't really expect the bombs to actually drop, or at least for it to no be that bad. Meanwhile they get all the funding needed to build these vaults and perform their experiments.

 

[demicolon]

Still, how do you proceed with 13's experiment of sealing the inhabitants inside forever? Or exposing 8's population to extreme radiation to simulate, I guess, a starship's rad shielding malfunction? Makes no sense even in-universe.

Whoever signed on Vault 0 certainly expected the worst.

 

[biguglyboy]

Still, how do you proceed with 13's experiment of sealing the inhabitants inside forever? Or exposing 8's population to extreme radiation to simulate, I guess, a starship's rad shielding malfunction? Makes no sense even in-universe.

Whoever signed on Vault 0 certainly expected the worst.

I think you're referring to 101 and 12. In the former's case I think that still works, you just let them all eventually die out for whatever reason and you got your data point on how long a group and last in isolation. I'm not sure how long they expected to wait though to get that data though before blasting off.
As for 12 with the door, shit, you got me there. Seems like a real expensive and roundabout effort too when it ends up not even really being an isolated population to test on. I believe that exact detail about it being planned came from the bible, so if I really wanted to I could say how everything in there is in that semi-canon state that's only meant for drawing inspiration from, but that is a cop out on my part. Especially since I think I got this whole stuff from the part of the bible that said half of the reasoning behind the vaults was from the new plague.

 

[demicolon]

I think you're referring to 101 and 12.

13 and 12, forgot 8 is the Worst City and not Bakersfield. Didn't play 3 so didn't even know about V101 or it's purpose.
13 was sealed effectively forever and if we keep it strict to Fallout 1 lore, then 13, 15, 12 and the "pilot" under Boneyard are all Vaults known and as far as we can know, 13 did not have a reason to get out since it was in the middle of a barren mountain range, 15 opened early due to denizens wanting to stay away from each other, 12 malfunctioned and the Boneyard one had no reason to stay inside after radiation dropped.

In the former's case I think that still works, you just let them all eventually die out for whatever reason and you got your data point on how long a group and last in isolation.

But how do you convince the inhabitants to stew inside forever if the nukes didn't drop? If they had any surface monitoring, they'd blow up the door and go out guns blazing if they ever figured out they're meant to die sealed inside like in a coffin for some kind of experiment. You could rig the monitors to send false data, but it wouldn't take long before one of the youngsters goes spelunking inside the mainframe, figure out something's wrong and then what, order the overseer to arrange an accident? I doubt the overseer would comply after hearing the news.

 

[Campbell_Trio]

I think my biggest worry about this new obsidian fallout is Bethesda wanting them to have it set on the west coast just so they can truly get a Bethesda "post apocalypse forever" fallout set directly in California over just having the tv show go "oh yeah the ncr fell and shady sands got glassed". They know the show lore is unpopular and know that fans of fallout can easily just ignore since its only impact on the games so far is the ghoul existing in 76 so having a game set in california that shows the after math of the shady nuke is something they would do to reaffirm their control of the ip.
I have no faith in modern obsidian regardless of Sawyer being in charge or even if they got literally every credited name on fallout 1,2 and new vegas to work on it to make a good fallout game

 

[El Chacal De La Trompeta]

bethesda didnt want obsidian having another round with fallout, obsidian didnt want to do another full scale AAA game, microsoft is on full panic mode and told them both stop fucking around do this. there is no way this will end being good.

 

[demicolon]

I believe that exact detail about it being planned came from the bible, so if I really wanted to I could say how everything in there is in that semi-canon state that's only meant for drawing inspiration from, but that is a cop out on my part. Especially since I think I got this whole stuff from the part of the bible that said half of the reasoning behind the vaults was from the new plague.

Bibles are Avellone sharpening his bullshitting skills. Read them all long ago and some statements from memory:
- New Plague was FEV
- FEV is magic responsible for every lore inconsistency
- All the giant fauna like deathclaws, radscorpions and also ghouls are result of FEV
- Actually no, giant scorpions and ghouls are supposed to be make-believe like in Torg tRPG, where radiation alone made ghouls because that was the idea in the 50s about radiation poisoning turning people into zombies and giving them superpowers
- Somehow, the nuke that ripped Glow a new one launched FEV particles all over to Bakersfield (while missing everything in between and around like Los Angeles or Hub), which is why population of Vault 12 got ghouled instead of shitting and vomiting themselves to death
- I'm making it all up on the spot to cover plotholes so please don't treat it as, oh the irony, a sacred text

BTW. Avellone is (was?) very active on rpgcodex, posting spicy details about his time with Obsidian and shittalking former coworkers, particularly Feargus Urquhart who allegedly stabbed him in the back... made fun of the books Feargus was reading and recommending to him lol

 

[Campbell_Trio]

bethesda didnt want obsidian having another round with fallout

Isn't there still 0 proof regarding this and is just an exageration of bethesda not wanting anyone else working on fallout/TES?

obsidian didnt want to do another full scale AAA game, microsoft is on full panic mode and told them both stop fucking around do this. there is no way this will end being good.

If i was working at obsidian and having a good time working on avowed 2 then told to stop cause it was canceled and work on a fallout game no one wanted to make i would not be putting in the same effort i would have been if i was still on avowed 2. I keep seeing people act like this is some good move by microsoft to force obsidian to make another fallout over letting them do what they wanted and when has forcing people to do something they don't wanna do ever worked in the gaming space?

BTW. Avellone is (was?) very active on rpgcodex, posting spicy details about his time with Obsidian and shittalking former coworkers, particularly Feargus Urquhart who allegedly stabbed him in the back... made fun of the books Feargus was reading and recommending to him lol

This is why i trust nothing Avellone says about how Bethesda treated Obsidian because originally he defended Bethesda and agreed with his coworkers but now he swears up and down all the disproven bullshit was actually true and leaks details about his time at Obsidian to gain good will from people on the internet for no reason

 

[demicolon]

and when has forcing people to do something they don't wanna do ever worked in the gaming space?

Well we got Fallout 2 thanks to this practice. It'd be a stillborn franchise if left to Tin Caim's whims.

 

[Breadbassket]

Getting Obsidian to make a new Fallout game seems like a monkey's paw wish considering the reputation that Obsidian has as a game studio in the current day.

 

[kingfollett]

If i was working at obsidian and having a good time working on avowed 2 then told to stop cause it was canceled and work on a fallout game no one wanted to make i would not be putting in the same effort i would have been if i was still on avowed 2. I keep seeing people act like this is some good move by microsoft to force obsidian to make another fallout over letting them do what they wanted and when has forcing people to do something they don't wanna do ever worked in the gaming space?

Perhaps it hasn’t worked well in the gaming space, don’t know enough specifics - but this is a fact of life at virtually every company of any size. No one gets to choose a fun project and then just shrug and decline to switch off to another one if told to.

It’s also different now in this sense: Microsoft just laid off 3200 people, closed studios. Now is probably not the time to slack off at any software dev roles at any company, not if you don’t want to get replaced by Aditya and Kumar - who, by the way, the new Xbox boss and Microsoft ceo happen to share a country of origin with, and happen to come from a culture of favoring their own.

I agree it’s not the ideal situation, but I would think everyone involved would recognize the importance of releasing a profitable game - if they have any career survival instinct (which frankly I haven’t seen much in game studios for a long time, to be fair to your point)

 

[Sicko Hunter]

Suicidal empathy is real.

 

[demicolon]

Perhaps it hasn’t worked well in the gaming space, don’t know enough specifics - but this is a fact of life at virtually every company of any size. No one gets to choose a fun project and then just shrug and decline to switch off to another one if told to.

Gamedev is creative work and they're supposed to work on the next Fallout, not toil in the Call of Duty mines. You can't really switch gears like you could with, say, transferring chemists from one production line to a new one where they'll be cooking aspirin instead of vitamin C.
I mean you can if you go with the lowest common denominator that is smartphone gaming. Anyone here wants Fallout: Mobile?

 

[GlupShitto]

Don't know, but what worries me about Cain is that he's developed what the French would call an idée fixe, which is literally what it says on the tin: an idea that has become fixed in place within his mind and won't budge. And that idea is that experience points should only be awarded for the completion of quests. It's clear from his videos that it's because he wants to put pacifist runs on the same footing as other playstyles, but there are multiple problems with it, not least of which is that it requires a substantial amount of extra work to make sure that the player can't get softlocked by not having enough points invested in certain skills to advance any of the quests currently available and being unable to level up through other means to acquire the XP to fix his build. Imagine that Negative XP song, but it's in a video game instead of real life:

life-is-an-rpg.mp4

We need to kill Toby Fox and all the japs who inspired him. JRPGs have been a scourge on the genre and have all but killed the CRPG.

 

[Campbell_Trio]

No one gets to choose a fun project and then just shrug and decline to switch off to another one if told to.

I'm not saying they should shrug and decline to switch off im saying that if i was having more fun and enjoying my time working on avowed 2 then told to switch over to the new fallout i would not put the same quality into my work as i did avowed 2.

not if you don’t want to get replaced by Aditya and Kumar - who, by the way, the new Xbox boss and Microsoft ceo happen to share a country of origin with

Only the CEO does, Asha was born in Wisconsin and seemingly has no actual ties back to india besides race

We need to kill Toby Fox and all the japs who inspired him. JRPGs have been a scourge on the genre and have all but killed the CRPG.

Literally every CRPG lists final fantasy and dragon quest as inspiration and in turn Wizardry and Ultima are listed as inspiration for final fantasy and dragon quest stop being retarded

 

[demicolon]

JRPGs have been a scourge on the genre and have all but killed the CRPG.

cRPGs killed themselves at the start of 90s when SirTech, Origin and lesser players went full retard with attempts to "diversify" i.e. stop making fucking cRPGs
They got a revival thanks to Fallout and Baldur's Gate
Undertale is not a fucking RPG, it's a walking simulator with bullet hell elements
Also Thin Cain did not work on Fallout 2, where did you get that from? Are you fishing for 30+flamewars's title of Worst Takes ITT?

 

[TyrasGuard]

We need to kill Toby Fox and all the japs who inspired him. JRPGs have been a scourge on the genre and have all but killed the CRPG.

Why? If one autistic guy's Earthbound clone beats the entire industry by itself then it's on you.

Undertale is a better RPG than most western "RPGs".