DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[Mystery Spy]

>Gets every DC fan wet dream of getting their own universe to play and access to all characters.
>Unironically would rather do a S.T.R.I.P.E.movie than touch the big names superheroes like Flash.

If I recall correctly even making Superman wasn't his first choice. He was hired to revive people’s interest on DC, not try to pull an Alan Moore and try to get accolades for writting an obscure character.

It's not that it can't be done but DC has taken so many Ls that kids these days are starting to unironically be more aware of Invincible characters than DC's big names.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

If I recall correctly even making Superman wasn't his first choice. He was hired to revive people interest on DC, not try to pull an Alan Moore and try to get accolades for writting an obscure character.

I don't think starting from an obscure character would be a bad way to start your DC, that way the introduction to the greater universe is Eclipso's Scrote learning how to get around when he's a very small fish in a very big pond, then from there you can sorta feel out your version of the big guys before you're REALLY committed to that characterization

 

[Mystery Spy]

I don't think starting from an obscure character would be a bad way to start your DC, that way the introduction to the greater universe is Eclipso's Scrote learning how to get around when he's a very small fish in a very big pond, then from there you can sorta feel out your version of the big guys before you're REALLY committed to that characterization

Oh I agree it’s doable. Could you make a banger movie about say Spy Smasher? Absolutely. That idea is perfect, specially if you already are familiar with the big names. People like you and me that are familiar with the big names could afford to be patient.

I think more of the lines that DC has another problem entirely however: The ancient texts are getting lost. I would argue that a lot of DC’s success as a brand is because normies watched superhero cartoons when they were kids, specially the DCAU in its prime.

Yet as great as that was, for kids and teenagers those might as well be ancient cartoons. You know you have problem when today’s kids find “Rex explode” more recognisible than most of the teenage DC heroes.

So it’s less not being possible and more like they are losing ground.

 

[Humble Architect]

I like that Absolute Green Arrow makes Oliver into an actual man rather than a limp-wristed champagne socialist. Bro got the Ultimate Hawkeye treatment and I approve.

Watch all of the pedophiles he hunts be white conservatives and not anywhere near related to the Chosen, the goatfucker Saudi Princes or the satanic actors.

 

[Mayor Cody Travers]

I agree with the discussion on DC losing ground due to mismanagement... but it also reminds me of other long-running franchises big and small, like Star Wars, Transformers, He-Man the MCU or whatever, suddenly slamming head-first into a wall when it comes to zoomers onward being interested in them and failed attempts to reach out to them.

DC (and Marvel)'s obviously not on the "level" of Transformers or He-Man as it's not a purely boomer, Gen X, or millennial-era franchise, true. But its last big heyday in the DCAU was when millennials were young and its DCEU days occurring at the same time the MCU was fresh, and by now the concept of superhero cinematic universes is old hat. And "ancient texts" is an ironically apt comparison when comic books went from cheap mass-produced entertainment every kid could easily pick up and become familiar with to, basically, specialty-made entertainment only a few middle-aged losers left consistently buy. So my "older generation's media" comparison IMO has some merit as they're the last generations to really dig into superheroes. Zoomers meanwhile have entirely grown up on newer internet and vidya media and characters, and after so long we're finally seeing a lot of these long-standing, supposedly eternal franchises begin to decay like once-popular characters of pre-boomer generations had.

Am I saying it's good or bad? I make no such judgements. But I always figured most every franchise has a shelf life with the generation or two that grew up with it, and who knows if even superheroes as we know them will have a life beyond the boomers and their immediate progeny. I'm sure at the time characters like Sherlock Holmes, Doc Savage, and Dick Tracy seemed truly immortal too.

 

[Pedophobe]

But I always figured most every franchise has a shelf life with the generation or two that grew up with it, and who knows if even superheroes as we know them will have a life beyond the boomers and their immediate progeny.

It's honestly pretty impressive they've managed to stretch these characters out for 70/80/90+ years.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

DC is becoming more of an underground franchise. It hasn’t lost its steam quite yet as the animated and gaming projects, new and old, have kept the ship a float. People here are forgetting how much of DC’s following has come after the DCAU. Since then we have gotten the Arkham games, LEGO, Brave & The Bold, TTG, and especially Young Justice and the DCAMU it brought. Funny how much of DC’s fandom is like a 180 today compared to yesteryear thanks to these projects. So, so many blacks and white women have become eternally invested in them thanks to Young Justice and the DCAMU. It makes it all the more depressing that DC doesn’t just make the animated universe their theatrical one, these low budget direct to DVD films are keeping the brand a float somehow.

The Arrowverse also managed to gain a lot of normies during its prime, and shouldn’t be overlooked.

DC’s best route would be to accept their fanbase may be smaller than Marvel, but that they are way more eternal. I think it was Nerdrotic who described DC fans as way more invested in the brand than Marvel fans are, which tracks. The autism DC brings is why they haven’t completely fallen apart yet. It’s incredible how the DCAMU gave Warner a template to gain the full spectrum of autism, male & female, with fun action, high drama, and more, yet Warner cannot replicate shit from these low budget direct to DVD films and shows. At this point, just make the animated universe the mainstream one, it would do them far better than anything in their live action department.

 

[Mystery Spy]

At this point, just make the animated universe the mainstream one, it would do them far better than anything in their live action department.

Honestly, I have always been baffled by how much WB and DC have underestimated their animation division, as if it were some third-rate thing they just do for a quick cash grab. In reality, it is the cornerstone of their success.

Make a kid love your characters, and you will have a customer for life. Kids meet their heroes through cartoons first (TTG, JLA, BBB, etc.—you name it).

I would even go so far as to say animation is largely what has kept DC characters in the minds of kids and, in turn, the whole reason everything else is successful. The Arkham games? Different continuity, but they still had Kevin Conroy, Hamill, and Dini, so they were really an extension of BTAS in spirit.

Why did kids even care enough to see a live-action movie about some guy called “Batman”? They likely saw him in a cartoon first. They might even get into comics because they recognize a character they love.

It might sound ridiculous, but yes, there are kids out there who are more familiar with Omni-Man than Superman. The reason isn’t quality. It’s just how the iPad generation consumes content.

With a few honorable exceptions, I think most of the best DC adaptations of the comics have been animated in some form. Between Gunn and Snyder fans, the real answer is that both lose to the DCAU and even the DCAMU or Young Justice, It’s not even close.

 

[Incecticyder]

Imo, DC should go the Spiderverse route and focus on animated moves and shows. It has always been their strong suit. Have serious stories (not edgy or humorless bullshit, just stuff they take seriously) and have them be animated. That way, they can reuse assets (should they go the CG route) and they can also get kids into the universe too. Kids like animation and adults like good stories. Have both and they will get both. It will help differentiate itself from the MCU as a bonus. People have gotten quite sick of good ol' capeshit. Moviegoers have learned to associate superhero movies with slop. A change in presentation will at least draw attention.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

Imo, DC should go the Spiderverse route and focus on animated moves and shows. It has always been their strong suit. Have serious stories (not edgy or humorless bullshit, just stuff they take seriously) and have them be animated. That way, they can reuse assets (should they go the CG route) and they can also get kids into the universe too. Kids like animation and adults like good stories. Have both and they will get both. It will help differentiate itself from the MCU as a bonus. People have gotten quite sick of good ol' capeshit. Moviegoers have learned to associate superhero movies with slop. A change in presentation will at least draw attention.

This

Would add that they should also focus in on the family aspect to differentiate themselves. The whole Super-Family concept has really carried DC with younger generations. Dick Grayson has quickly shot up to being the face of DC for Zoomers, and to say nothing of the wild fanbases of Damian Wayne and Jason Todd.

Young Justice is the base for a large chunk of the fanbase, those teen characters are insanely popular yet DC would rather attempt to make Suicide Squad a thing rather than tap into that teen hero market they dominate. DC/WB really is run by out-of-touch Boomers I swear.

Honestly, I have always been baffled by how much WB and DC have underestimated their animation division, as if it were some third-rate thing they just do for a quick cash grab. In reality, it is the cornerstone of their success.

DC has the Millennial/Zoomer audience a lot stronger than people on here will admit, but their movie department seems hellbent on getting that Xer audience that grew up with X-Men and Marvel, and don't give a shit about DC.

Removing the politics, they are trying to please an audience like Nerdrotic and co who shit-talk DC as being the weak little brother of Chad Marvel and constantly talk about how Robin sucks and Batman was better when those characters didn't exist. Their commentary is the exact opposite of what DC should be doing, they won't care about this brand beyond potential culture sperging.

 

[Incecticyder]

This

Would add that they should also focus in on the family aspect to differentiate themselves. The whole Super-Family concept has really carried DC with younger generations. Dick Grayson has quickly shot up to being the face of DC for Zoomers, and to say nothing of the wild fanbases of Damian Wayne and Jason Todd.

Young Justice is the base for a large chunk of the fanbase, those teen characters are insanely popular yet DC would rather attempt to make Suicide Squad a thing rather than tap into that teen hero market they dominate. DC/WB really is run by out-of-touch Boomers I swear.

Imo, the DCAU was the best in that regard. It was a kid show universe in the sense that it was preparing them for the adult world and the circumstances they will find themselves in. Cadmus was a bunch of individuals that you can't just punch without consequences and had to learn to play ball with. That is just one of the great storylines. Forgiveness for Hawkgirl was another that I liked. It taught nuance. As good the MCU was at its peak, the DCAU was better.

Removing the politics, they are trying to please an audience like Nerdrotic and co who shit-talk DC as being the weak little brother of Chad Marvel and constantly talk about how Robin sucks and Batman was better when those characters didn't exist. Their commentary is the exact opposite of what DC should be doing, they won't care about this brand beyond potential culture sperging.

I get where they are coming from. They need a reminder from when those characters were awesome. DC should remind them.

 

[Mystery Spy]

Perhaps not in this thread, but I think people in general massively underestimate the role Teen Titans and the DCAU played into getting people into superheroes.

They have lost ground nowdays thanks to the MCU. You will now see people say “avengers” (Instead of Justice League) when they mean a team of heroes, or terms like “avengers level treat” or “variants “are meme phrases from Marvel. Thanos also eclipses Darkseid in terms of popularity for the normies.

Young Justice is an odd case, because it did start strong, but ended as a TDS woke propaganda mess. I am still surprised the creator wasn’t lynched after doing a non binary lesbian Muslim zombie character, and then still had the gall to pretend it was Halal.

Comics aside, DC’s best adaptations and their greatest tool for converting new fans have always been in animation.

 

[Incecticyder]

Perhaps not in this thread, but I think people in general massively underestimate the role Teen Titans and the DCAU played into getting people into superheroes.

They have lost ground nowdays thanks to the MCU. You will now see people say “avengers” (Instead of Justice League) when they mean a team of heroes, or terms like “avengers level treat” or “variants “are meme phrases from Marvel. Thanos also eclipses Darkseid in terms of popularity for the normies.

If it wasn't for DCAU proving that such a universe can work, Marvel wouldn't have even tried. Superman and Batman are the archetypical World and Street level superheroes respectively. DC lost a lot of minds.

Young Justice is an odd case, because it did start strong, but ended as a TDS woke propaganda mess. I am still surprised the creator wasn’t lynched after doing a non binary lesbian Muslim zombie character, and then still had the gall to pretend it was Halal.

You assume any Muslim watched it. They didn't. Sad that a guy as talented, well-read and smart as Greg fell to the mind virus of wokeness. He was the guy who could take a diverse cast and made it work since the 90's. Every character was well rounded and felt human.

Comics aside, DC’s best adaptations and their greatest tool for converting new fans have always been in animation.

Anime is eating their lunch and they don't know why.

 

[Calandrino]

From the ground on up, the Gunnverse has been wrong but it’s Superman is the opposite of how he should be.

I dunno man. That's what people said about the Znyder one, and although I never really agreed or thought the criticisms were entirely fair, I could at least see what they were getting at. The Gunn version is ostensibly a course correction from that, who checks all the boxes that a safe interpretation of Superman is supposed to ("smiles and saves people", etc.) but is still somehow the least-Supermanly Superman of all time. It's doing my head in that I can't articulate exactly what the problem is, other than to say that, despite being played by a six-something dude who gets paid to lift weights, he's such a little bitch.

It's not that he's too Whedonesque. Josstice League was awful but I didn't hate the way Superman was written. I'm sure a Whedon-written-and-directed Superman movie would at least be better than what Gunn gave us.

I'm not all that hung up on a specific interpretation of the character being the only right one. He can be confident and morally pure or conflicted, he can be stoic or emotional, he can "really" be Clark Kent or Superman, et cetera et cetera. He just can't be a little bitch. In that Supergirl clip, all he has to do is be a reassuring presence to a scared little girl, and it's not happening. Even Homelander would've been better in that situation. It's as if he gets his powers from consuming soy or something.

 

[Humble Architect]

I dunno man. That's what people said about the Znyder one, and although I never really agreed or thought the criticisms were entirely fair, I could at least see what they were getting at. The Gunn version is ostensibly a course correction from that, who checks all the boxes that a safe interpretation of Superman is supposed to ("smiles and saves people", etc.) but is still somehow the least-Supermanly Superman of all time. It's doing my head in that I can't articulate exactly what the problem is, other than to say that, despite being played by a six-something dude who gets paid to lift weights, he's such a little bitch.

It's not that he's too Whedonesque. Josstice League was awful but I didn't hate the way Superman was written. I'm sure a Whedon-written-and-directed Superman movie would at least be better than what Gunn gave us.

I'm not all that hung up on a specific interpretation of the character being the only right one. He can be confident and morally pure or conflicted, he can be stoic or emotional, he can "really" be Clark Kent or Superman, et cetera et cetera. He just can't be a little bitch. In that Supergirl clip, all he has to do is be a reassuring presence to a scared little girl, and it's not happening. Even Homelander would've been better in that situation. It's as if he gets his powers from consuming soy or something.

I hate Snyder’s shit and personally I hate him for using his failure as a father to shield the “Snyder Cut” but at least his Superman was a man and in that way, he was better than Gunn’s abomination.

He also wasn’t wearing the godawful New 52 suit, had a unique “S” and despite it all being grimderp, at least he was the heavyweight of his universe and didn’t have to share his debut movie with the characters the director actually wanted to make a movie about.

 

[The Nothingness]

Sad that a guy as talented, well-read and smart as Greg fell to the mind virus of wokeness. He was the guy who could take a diverse cast and made it work since the 90's. Every character was well rounded and felt human.

You're surprised (((Greg Weisman))) went woke? He pulled a Rowling and made one of the Gargoyle characters gay a decade after the show ended in a comic no one knew about. Sure he had the White Martians be an oppressed minority, but the only other White Martian in YJ was M'gann's brother who was a racist. He was so blinded by his hatred that had his plan succeeded he may have wiped out all Martians, as DeSaad basically told him.

 

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

I am still surprised the creator wasn’t lynched after doing a non binary lesbian Muslim zombie character, and then still had the gall to pretend it was Halal.

I don't know a lot about Muslim religion, but even I know you don't need to wear the hijab while at home with no men around like in the scene where Violet learns about why Muslim women wear hijabs.

 

[Incecticyder]

You're surprised (((Greg Weisman))) went woke?

I said that he had diverse characters written well.

He pulled a Rowling and made one of the Gargoyle characters gay a decade after the show ended in a comic no one knew about.

I liked Lexington. Greg is capable of making a character be more than their sexuality. That is anathema to woke writing. The queer characters cannot go 3 seconds without telling you they are queer. Greg gave you characters you liked first without an agenda. Shame that changed.

Sure he had the White Martians be an oppressed minority, but the only other White Martian in YJ was M'gann's brother who was a racist. He was so blinded by his hatred that had his plan succeeded he may have wiped out all Martians, as DeSaad basically told him.

That is a lot of nuance. It is shown that WMs are feared and hated but also the fact that there reasons for that. WMs faced discrimination due to their proclivity towards violence. In the woke religion, implying that an oppressed minority is composed of anything other than saints is blasphemy.

 

[Mystery Spy]

You're surprised (((Greg Weisman))) went woke? He pulled a Rowling and made one of the Gargoyle characters gay a decade after the show ended in a comic no one knew about. Sure he had the White Martians be an oppressed minority, but the only other White Martian in YJ was M'gann's brother who was a racist. He was so blinded by his hatred that had his plan succeeded he may have wiped out all Martians, as DeSaad basically told him.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=iqclPwRqkK4

He also made Lagoon boy, the aquatic monster guy that dated Miss Martian, a cuck, as part of a threesome. Remember Aqualad, the character that spent a whole seasons simping for Aquagirl? The same guy everyone tought became evil because he was grieving for her? You know a woman? He pulled a Rowling with him too and made him gay out of nowhere.

The TDS is so blatant someone even made a compilation:

I liked Lexington. Greg is capable of making a character be more than their sexuality. That is anathema to woke writing. The queer characters cannot go 3 seconds without telling you they are queer. Greg gave you characters you liked first without an agenda. Shame that changed.

I feel you. Greg is a talented guy, but a lot of his worst impulses were put in check when he was forced to abide to network rules and he had executives wrangling him.

Young Justice on its streaming seasons is him working with full creative control , and he delivered a woke as hell show.

Now to be clear I am not complaining that gay characters exist. But there’s a huge difference between that, and pushing woke politics, and ruin the tone of his show just to complain about Trump.

 

[Incecticyder]

I feel you. Greg is a talented guy, but a lot of his worst impulses were put in check when he was forced to abide to network rules and he had executives wrangling him.

Young Justice on its streaming seasons is him working with full creative control , and he delivered a woke as hell show.

Even still, I feel he should be able to tell the difference between his old characters and the woke ones. As for YJ, the show fell off in a lot of ways. Overabundance of cast is one of them.

Now to be clear I am not complaining that gay characters exist. But there’s a huge difference between that, and pushing woke politics, and ruin the tone of his show just to complain about Trump.

Yeah, I don't mind the queers, just write them well. It feels like every year he forgets how to write good characters first and foremost. Now it is "wokewokewoke" and no humanity.