Catholicism, the one true faith?

Most representations of Jesus on the cross have him as lanky with ribs visible and with gashes and bleeding. It represents the moment of his death and is seen as such. It is no more sexual than a men's change room at the local pool that has senior's classes, something that most people don't see sexual at all.
The fuck kind of local pools are you going to that have crucified and emaciated people hanging out front?

Anyway, and not for nothing, pedophiles and closet homos also seek employment at public pools as lifeguards or swim teachers in order to cruise the public nudity on display there as well. Most pools put that staff through enhanced background checks to discourage people with priors from working there. Also normal people sometimes go to pools to cruise the crowd; and gay men sometimes hit on each other in the locker room. Just so you knew.
 
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How would you feel like if you didn't have breakfast?
Have you ever been to the Vatican Museum? I have.

Sometimes miles-long hallways full of marble statuary of nearly naked boys and men just speaks for itself, and the fig leaves don’t really make a difference.

ETA: care to share the last time you went to Mass??
 

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You're welcome for the reminder, but you're not answering my question: When was the last time your ass made it into church?
I can honestly say I would not have missed that it was Holy Week, or the Feast Day had you not mentioned it. I attend mass weekly, as I am obliged.

You don't know if what I allege about the recent sex parties in the Vatican is true because you don't want to hear about it (very Catholic of you.) Here's an article about recent gay sex parties within the Vatican. I hope you're not anti-Semitic as well, and won't consider this just because the story ran in Ha'aretz. The author of the book in question says senior priests even came onto him, while he was in the Vatican writing it.
You're just pretentiously talking in circles about hopes and prayers while the Church makes few meaningful changes. Francis is trying to steer the herd in a direction it plainly does not want to go. What has the institution of the Catholic church done to earn back your trust like that? And is their sinning even yours to forgive?
Those are allegations, they may even be true. Ha'aretz is a mainstream publication, that is reason enough to take what it puts out with a pinch of salt, kosher salt or not, I am not beholden to those temporary restrictions.
You are just ignoring the very real belief that allows me to accept the failures, even at the highest level and still embrace the Church militant (the sinners here on earth) without fear. Jesus is the head of the Church, I am just a tiny very insignificant part of his Church, his mystical body. I merely forgive them for the offense they give me, the doubts (not really doubts but anguish and difficulty) and the shame. God will judge them, in is his perfect wisdom, (Matthew 7:2) as we measure that is how we shall have it measured out to us, and I'll need plenty forgiveness when it's my turn.

The Catholic priesthood is (perhaps accidentally) structured to attract men who are OK with not marrying women. Early early Catholics allowed marriage, but it was banned around 305 AD (Synod of Elvira) for the purpose of making sure Church property stayed in the church. As a knock-on efffect, it made the seminary/monestary exactly where the gay people will want to go, in order to not have to fake interest in a heterosexual marriage, and also, gain a measure of status in the community.
I don't believe that is accurate. Church property was perfectly able to be kept within an order or a parish/diocese by vows of poverty or simplicity for all seeking ordination, and the property being owned by organizations led by those who could not marry.

So wait, the Catholics put up naked statues of dying Jesus, writhing in agony, barely clothed,on their altars, year-round, on the jewerly, freaking everywhere, and I'm the one with disordered desires? I'm the one just reading into things wrongly?
You have to be kidding either me, or yourself. Showing the congregants snuff film / nearly-naked Jesus both dilutes the power of the image when you should contemplate it, and also, it illustrates that your church is run by homos.
We see the greatest act of selflessness possible, and it was done to free us from death. A Resurrection without the Passion is not the Gospel, we preach Christ crucified, following the Apostle Paul:
For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

...The torture of a man, for little more than standing up to the corruption of worldly authorities, in that manner - flesh stripped from his back by lashes, thorns driven into his head, muscle and back broken carrying his cross, and then to be stabbed through the hands, muscles tearing under his own weight, until a death of exhaustion, is absolutely brutal. And the Christian religion's main point, whether or not it makes sense on the whole, is that he voluntarily went through that as a sort of blood sacrifice to take the punishment for you that you deserve, everybody deserves, not so much because of anything you've done but more because of the deep potential for evil that rests in all of us.

It is powerful, haunting imagery, and it's kind of sad that many churches downplay it for some cuddly Jesus that conveys only comfort, not loss or suffering.
A common theory of how people die from crucifixion is their heart and lungs fail due to fluid building in the lungs. You kind of suffocate or drown, bit by bit, pushing up on your wounded feet, grinding the rough wood into your aching back, with your arms pulled out of their sockets in all likelihood.
It's possible Jesus was as bloody as in the Mel Gibson picture, but experienced torturers know how to keep people alive, so it was probably more bad bruising than bleeding cuts all over if I had to guess. The scourging and the hanging on the cross, each longer than the entire movie. 3 hours he hangs suffering and dying after an entire night and day of humiliation and agony.

John 15:13 Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
 
You are just ignoring the very real belief that allows me to accept the failures, even at the highest level and still embrace the Church militant (the sinners here on earth) without fear. Jesus is the head of the Church, I am just a tiny very insignificant part of his Church, his mystical body. I merely forgive them for the offense they give me, the doubts (not really doubts but anguish and difficulty) and the shame. God will judge them, in is his perfect wisdom, (Matthew 7:2) as we measure that is how we shall have it measured out to us, and I'll need plenty forgiveness when it's my turn.
Ok see this is an example of Catholic dogma babble when confronted with real problems within their church.

This is another reason I don’t like Catholics. They would let their priests molest their babies and find a biblical justification for why it’s all ok in the end, really, because Jesus makes it so. But Jesus abhors injustice, and allowing it to fester by ignoring the problem and pretending it’s not there is what got you Catholics to this problem in the first place.

And yes, priestly marriage was banned to keep Church property in the church and not in the hands of the nobility (who would have become priests if they were allowed to marry). You don’t have to “believe” this or not… it’s a simple matter of historical fact. It is why the church became an economic powerhouse of the Middle Ages. If priests did have kids, they wouldn’t be legitimate heirs to the stuff the church owned. That was the point of priestly celibacy. It’s a matter of corporate discipline, not doctrine. There’s no biblical reason priests cannot marry: Saint Peter had a wife and kids. Matthew talks about Peters mother in law. It’s implied Paul was married because of his status in the Jewish priesthood. James was married. Philip was married. The church banned priestly marriage for the practical reason of keeping Church stuff under Church control.
 
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Part of the reason why we have this trannie infestation is because shielding criminals on your side was normalized. We have to be willing to recognize when we have to acknowledge when some people are bad, even if they are deemed virtuous by our standards.

That being said false accusations are a thing. Not common, but enough that you can predict when an accusation may be falsified and used to smear the entire group. Ultimately everyone has bad apples, but people do like to fixate on the few bad apples in order to mark entire massive communities of good people as bad.
 
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Ok see this is an example of Catholic dogma babble when confronted with real problems within their church.
You can deny the meaning of my statement, it changes it's meaning not one jot. If the Church is headed by Christ and the successors of the Apostles are leading her then I would have to accept all the allegations, even far worse, and still submit myself to it. If the Church is false even if it were apparently perfect in conduct it would still be false, and unworthy of my loyalty.

This is another reason I don’t like Catholics. They would let their priests molest their babies and find a biblical justification for why it’s all ok in the end, really, because Jesus makes it so. But Jesus abhors injustice, and allowing it to fester by ignoring the problem and pretending it’s not there is what got you Catholics to this problem in the first place.
Your hypothetical straw man, does it come with a fedora?
If God is almighty he can forgive anyone, if they repent and accept the justice demanded, both in this life (for serious sins like child abuse or murder) and if necessary by being purified after death (Purgatory).

And yes, priestly marriage was banned to keep Church property in the church and not in the hands of the nobility (who would have become priests if they were allowed to marry). You don’t have to “believe” this or not… it’s a simple matter of historical fact. It is why the church became an economic powerhouse of the Middle Ages. If priests did have kids, they wouldn’t be legitimate heirs to the stuff the church owned. That was the point of priestly celibacy. It’s a matter of corporate discipline, not doctrine. There’s no biblical reason priests cannot marry: Saint Peter had a wife and kids. Matthew talks about Peters mother in law. It’s implied Paul was married because of his status in the Jewish priesthood. James was married. Philip was married. The church banned priestly marriage for the practical reason of keeping Church stuff under Church control.
Some nobles and people of considerable means did become priests, even when that meant never marrying.
I do not see the celibacy rule in economic terms as you do, I am not opposed to married priests, but I can see how being a committed husband and father would mean you would be a part time priest or at least would need a different work/life balance. In that sense I see it economically (you would need more priests to offer the same service if they each had a wife and kids to serve).
The Church became an economic powerhouse in many places because they had both learning and a dedication to hard work in the Monasteries, and had the support of many lay persons of high and low status.
Of course there were temptations, and many fell to greed and other grave sins. I see no proof that that greed motivated the celibacy discipline, I think a single priest could will property to a favored relative just as easily as passing it to direct descendants. The real control is supplying housing/lands/servants/wealth etc. with the job, so if you retire or die, it goes to your successor, a bit like the seat the Bishops hold.
 
@Balalaika Z Bree my apologies in advance because the quote function is only working intermittently for me. I blame Josh's spaghetti code...
If the Church is headed by Christ and the successors of the Apostles are leading her then I would have to accept all the allegations, even far worse, and still submit myself to it.

If God is almighty he can forgive anyone, if they repent and accept the justice demanded, both in this life (for serious sins like child abuse or murder) and if necessary by being purified after death (Purgatory).

Bree, you have a duty in this one life you have to live to try and make the Kingdom of Heaven here in the imperfect world that we have. Christians like us are an Easter people living in a Good Friday world. I find your acceptance and resignation towards such priestly abuses, the hiring of whores, to say nothing of the abuses against children disturbing. It breaks the rules Catholics set for themselves and you're seemingly OK with it. If I was a Jew, I would not want to learn from a rabbi who regularly enjoys cheeseburgers; if I was a Catholic, I would not want to learn from a papacy that tactitly condones the sins it proclaims its own congregation to avoid.

Just because we enjoy salvation by grace does not imply you can just do whatever you want and get absolution. By no means. And I think it follows one should hold their own priesthood to a higher standard... surely you're not doing what they have been shown to have done. But you'll accept this heinous conduct from the people who are supposed to each you and lead you? These are the people to whom you'd confess your own perfidy and seek reparation? How can a system so busted help you without meaningful reform?

I think Pope Francis is OK; I think, unlike Benedict 16th (who's implicated in all this shit), he wants reform, but his unpopularity within the higher ranks of the church shows that he's the exception to the rule, and that rule is corruption, hiring whoreboys from the Middle East at the Termini Station, and running a distintictively anti-gay and celibate church whilst indulging in gay sex and straight sex behind the curtains.
I do not see the celibacy rule in economic terms as you do, I am not opposed to married priests, but I can see how being a committed husband and father would mean you would be a part time priest or at least would need a different work/life balance. In that sense I see it economically (you would need more priests to offer the same service if they each had a wife and kids to serve).
The Church became an economic powerhouse in many places because they had both learning and a dedication to hard work in the Monasteries, and had the support of many lay persons of high and low status.
You don't have to see it in the economic terms I do; history substantiates my claim. The Catholic Church, to give it its due, was a powerhouse mentor of arts, music, architecture, etc. because it owned a lot of land that stayed within the church and couldn't be transferred to the progeny of the priests (if they broke their vows, those kids are illegitimate and cannot inherit.) Hard work on the part of monks isn't the same as owning a shit ton of land, my man. Lots of 2nd and 3rd sons of nobles were transferred to priesthood, and with them, bits of land. This was investment in the Catholic portfolio of assets, and it could never be reclaimed because those persons would be at least nominally celibate.

I disagree that married priests are somehow distracted with their work or that spouses take away from their focus. Much the opposide: there are too many demonimations of faith, Christian and non-christian, where the spouse of the priest is practically an assistant to the priest themselves. In my church, the priest's spouse does the A/V work to livestream our services and co-ordinates the tech committee. In Orthodox Jewish congregations, the wife of the rabbi is called "rebbetzin", and she handles inquiries from women that they may not wish to share with a man. She's a watchdog for spousal abuse, as well. Being the spouse of a priest is practically an unpaid job from how I see it.
 
lol no.
It's unbalanced as fuck and already did its function. But I guess such dry wood would make a nice fire.

“Expect poison from the standing water.”- The Marriage of Heaven and Hell , William Blake.
 
Bree, you have a duty in this one life you have to live to try and make the Kingdom of Heaven here in the imperfect world that we have. Christians like us are an Easter people living in a Good Friday world. I find your acceptance and resignation towards such priestly abuses, the hiring of whores, to say nothing of the abuses against children disturbing. It breaks the rules Catholics set for themselves and you're seemingly OK with it. If I was a Jew, I would not want to learn from a rabbi who regularly enjoys cheeseburgers; if I was a Catholic, I would not want to learn from a papacy that tactitly condones the sins it proclaims its own congregation to avoid.
The Kingdom of God lies ahead of us (CCC 2816) we must bear good fruit in anticipation of the fullness of it in Christ Jesus' Glorious return.

If it didn't break the rules it wouldn't be sin, we'd have a completely different situation, like Islamic child brides, by following the "perfect example" or whatever they call their false prophet they claim it's "fine" and even "good" for the groom to abuse in their wicked system. By acknowledging the offenders are disobeying Catholic teaching you are in effect admitting they are traitors to their solemn vows, even the baptismal vows to reject the devil and all his works.

Recognizing the tragedy of sin, even the most serious sins within our Churches (and schools etc.) and that serious errors were made is not the same thing as saying was OK, or is all OK now, or nothing can or must be done to stop it. I neither accept those horrific priestly sins in the discussed abuses nor resign to them just being bad eggs.
I call for all accused, including any office holder in the Church, to be investigated properly and lessons learned, even if it's from apparently false allegations (e.g. don't be alone with a child, always have the parents or other responsible adults around them, ideally more than one). The innocent deserve our pity for being wrongly accused, many of the guilty deserve prison or death (for the most serious abuses like rape, murder etc.) or better to be imprisoned for their entire lives without possibility of release unless found to be falsely convicted.

It was not just to sound nice that our Lord directed us to forgive those who wrong us. It even made it into the Lord's prayer. If I seem OK with it then I apologize for not being clearer. I forgive them as is appropriate for me to forgive, as I explained, and see it as a mostly historic issue, but perhaps I am mistaken. Allegations by themselves will probably not help win my heart, knowing the devil is the father of lies and will do all in his power to weaken and shame the Church.

Just because we enjoy salvation by grace does not imply you can just do whatever you want and get absolution. By no means. And I think it follows one should hold their own priesthood to a higher standard... surely you're not doing what they have been shown to have done. But you'll accept this heinous conduct from the people who are supposed to each you and lead you? These are the people to whom you'd confess your own perfidy and seek reparation? How can a system so busted help you without meaningful reform?

I think Pope Francis is OK; I think, unlike Benedict 16th (who's implicated in all this shit), he wants reform, but his unpopularity within the higher ranks of the church shows that he's the exception to the rule, and that rule is corruption, hiring whoreboys from the Middle East at the Termini Station, and running a distintictively anti-gay and celibate church whilst indulging in gay sex and straight sex behind the curtains.
There is no sin I can commit that God will forgive me of if I repent and turn back to him fully (with the Sacraments). There is no wound I can give myself that it is beyond the power of the Lord to heal, even death by atomization. I agree though a time will come if we wander far, our last window for repentance may close without us realizing it, and without a supernatural grace at the moment of death or other great pouring out of the Lords mercy, we are headed to just one destination: the lake of fire.

I do not know my Pope Francis personally, nor did I know the late Pope Benedict XVI. Both have been accused of all sorts of things from within and without the church. I must not judge them in bitterness, but with charity, in hope, patiently waiting for credible evidence before taking allegations seriously, then discerning what is true, wary of judging things beyond my right to judge.

You don't have to see it in the economic terms I do; history substantiates my claim. The Catholic Church, to give it its due, was a powerhouse mentor of arts, music, architecture, etc. because it owned a lot of land that stayed within the church and couldn't be transferred to the progeny of the priests (if they broke their vows, those kids are illegitimate and cannot inherit.) Hard work on the part of monks isn't the same as owning a shit ton of land, my man. Lots of 2nd and 3rd sons of nobles were transferred to priesthood, and with them, bits of land. This was investment in the Catholic portfolio of assets, and it could never be reclaimed because those persons would be at least nominally celibate.

I disagree that married priests are somehow distracted with their work or that spouses take away from their focus. Much the opposide: there are too many demonimations denominations of faith, Christian and non-christian, where the spouse of the priest is practically an assistant to the priest themselves. In my church, the priest's spouse does the A/V work to livestream our services and co-ordinates the tech committee. In Orthodox Jewish congregations, the wife of the rabbi is called "rebbetzin", and she handles inquiries from women that they may not wish to share with a man. She's a watchdog for spousal abuse, as well. Being the spouse of a priest is practically an unpaid job from how I see it.
There is evidence that may be viewed in that light. Certainly there were abuses of wealth and influence, not least in Rome, and by ignoring the merciful words of the Lord, that man cannot serve both God and Mammon, many souls were endangered by the acts of weak and corrupt Catholics.

Do you see the logic of my work/life balance remark? how married priests have different responsibilities, especially if they have young children or a sick wife or child? I definitely see the potential benefits, as you mentioned the support a spouse can give, and the gifts they might bring to the work of the priest. I am very much in favor of married priests, when and where the Church in her wisdom permits it. Due to the serious shortage of vocations in much of the world for celibate lives I would not be shocked to see many changes, including relaxing the discipline, if the priests they have actively serving are spread thinner and thinner and it seems less and less possible to not try it. It's just a guess though.
 
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