Catholicism, the one true faith?

[TheSaltySpitoon]

If you like latin, larping, tweed suits, black-and-white thinking, pipes, and whiskey then traditional catholicism is probably right for you

dood you left out lord of the rings. that shit kicks dicks.

 

[Balalaika Z Bree]

I doubt there's a single dead Pope that isn't burning in Hell right now.

We had Popes that were martyred, including Saint Peter. I don't mean the Islamic "martyred" where you slaughter others, I mean actual martyrdom, choosing death rather than denying our Lord. I cannot speak for all Popes, but many are canonized saints, and even those who deny the saints are in the presence of God are likely to recognize a martyrs death makes you an ideal candidate for an eternity in God's presence.

...problems with Catholicism:

1. You're not supposed to ask questions or try to interpret the Bible yourself. Asking questions about the faith is discouraged.
2. Dogmatic rules about contraception, abortion, homosexuals. Each one of these probably deserves its own bullet point
3. Clergy is contains closeted homosexuals and pedophiles, and even the priests who weren't involved covered for those who did for decades, and still do
4. Will not ordain women to the priesthood; sexist. Should allow priestly marriage but does not.
5. The monetary embezzlement, both historically and presently
6. The weird guilt culture
7. Naked dying Jesus statues everywhere. Crucifixion scenes are less meaningful if you show them to me every freaking day. I also find them vaguely pornographic/snuff filmy.
8. Too many amulets and little saint creches everywhere, looks like polytheism sometimes.
9. The relics and reliquaries, literally keeping little pieces of what they believe are the dead bodies of the saints on display.

1. All are encouraged to read scripture, but not to corrupt its meaning by ignoring the Traditions that give us the canon of scripture, the creeds, and the rest. You could easily argue that there is not enough emphasis on scripture in many Catholic teaching institutions now and throughout history.
2. God created us in his image, granting us a unique dignity. The gift of human sexuality is only to be used honoring that dignity.
3 & 5. Clergy are humans, sinners, including the worst kinds of sins. In much of the West was a culture of not protecting children in schools, religious, and recreational organizations. The Church failed to protect children and root out the offenders nearly enough, but the Catholic Church is far from unique in this.
4. Women cannot be priests, what the Church leaders want is not relevant. Christian groups that place women in such roles have invalid Sacraments. Married men can become priests in certain circumstances, it's common in the Eastern Catholic rite, but priests are not allowed to marry or remarry currently.
6. Weird compared to what? We're sinners, thank God we have the wisdom to feel shame and repent when we stumble!
7. Jesus on the Cross is depicted with some loincloth or similar, not naked from all I've seen. If you walk with Christ, picking up your cross daily, praying and meditating on his life, death, and Resurrection, none of the meaning is lessened. It's strengthened. It's not just an image, the motivation should be thought deeply about. You have problems if you see such suffering and cruelty and think of erotic materials. Firstly you have polluted your mind with such materials! Refer to point 2. Repent.
8. Looks like.
9. The remains are just that, we believe they are not dead in spirit, but are with God until the Resurrection.

I guess I could say some good things about Catholics. Episcopals and Anglicans have to team up with them time to time, for charitable initiatives and all that. They certainly pull a lot more numbers in the Hispanic community. But whenever I interact with invested, practicing Catholics I wonder about their sanity.

You should wonder about the sanity of all. Sin and wickedness drive many to self destruction and abuse of others. There is no doubt mental infirmity can lead some to obsessive religiosity and scrupulosity, like what seems to have happened to Martin Luther.

 

[Stan]

Christian groups that place women in such roles have invalid Sacraments.

Fighting words my Catholic zombie friend

 

[SpergioLeonne]

Catholics have the least convoluted through-line back to Jesus. If you started as a European Christian and never revolted against the church, then you’d be a Catholic today

 

[Balalaika Z Bree]

Fighting words my Catholic zombie friend

It is those who throw away the traditions, standing with counterfeit authorities including those ineligible for office such women priests or bishops, who have picked a fight against truth.

Zombies are the undead, or those who are semi-dead and controlled via some mystic power. Jesus is not dead, he has been raised. The bread and wine in the Sacrament of the Eucharist is not about control or dead flesh, it is about freedom from the slavery of sin, and the Living God's body and blood, soul and divinity.

Read the Gospel according to Saint John, chapter 6, particularly verses 25 to 59.

 

[CryoRevival #SJ-112]

If you want an answer to all the lazy christian critiques of Catholicism, this video by a pair of priests with a reaction family is pretty enjoyable for passive consumption:

I recommend the whole channel, its very humanizing for clergy and allows them to bring the spirit of the faith to modern media without getting too bogged down in autistically dry and abstract philosophy like the other channel the younger one runs (and every other catholic channel).

 

[Betonhaus]

A lot of these were covered already but I'll point out these:

1. You're not supposed to ask questions or try to interpret the Bible yourself. Asking questions about the faith is discouraged.

When anyone gets to interpret the Bible as we please we get Evangelicals and cults where the pastor gets to smog everyone's wife.

4. Will not ordain women to the priesthood; sexist. Should allow priestly marriage but does not.

Woman in leadership roles tend to be a bit bloody and make things go bad.

6. The weird guilt culture

The first of the deadly sins is Pride, which is also the worst. Pride convinces you that you know better then others, and that you can do whatever you want. Shame encourages introspection and understanding.

8. Too many amulets and little saint creches everywhere, looks like polytheism sometimes.

Every Saint is different, as every person is different. Sometimes you find that one particular Saint is more relevant to the issues that plague you at the time.

9. The relics and reliquaries, literally keeping little pieces of what they believe are the dead bodies of the saints on display.

How is that much different then keeping grandma in an urn on a shelf?

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

If I had to convert I'd stick to a branch of Christianity that at least takes itself seriously. Modern day Catholics seems to treat itself as a joke at best and a tool for the worst kind of politics at worse. If there will be a reform to take it back to its roots then it won't be called catholicism anymore since the rot has basically replaced everything within.

I'm not expecting full on Muslim tard rage, that at least some sort of emotional response for having your churches burned and your kids indoctrinated on sinful behaviour.

 

[Stan]

To those who replied to me directly: Thank you.

1. All are encouraged to read scripture, but not to corrupt its meaning by ignoring the Traditions that give us the canon of scripture, the creeds, and the rest. You could easily argue that there is not enough emphasis on scripture in many Catholic teaching institutions now and throughout history.
2. God created us in his image, granting us a unique dignity. The gift of human sexuality is only to be used honoring that dignity.
3 & 5. Clergy are humans, sinners, including the worst kinds of sins. In much of the West was a culture of not protecting children in schools, religious, and recreational organizations. The Church failed to protect children and root out the offenders nearly enough, but the Catholic Church is far from unique in this.
4. Women cannot be priests, what the Church leaders want is not relevant. Christian groups that place women in such roles have invalid Sacraments. Married men can become priests in certain circumstances, it's common in the Eastern Catholic rite, but priests are not allowed to marry or remarry currently.
6. Weird compared to what? We're sinners, thank God we have the wisdom to feel shame and repent when we stumble!
7. Jesus on the Cross is depicted with some loincloth or similar, not naked from all I've seen. If you walk with Christ, picking up your cross daily, praying and meditating on his life, death, and Resurrection, none of the meaning is lessened. It's strengthened. It's not just an image, the motivation should be thought deeply about. You have problems if you see such suffering and cruelty and think of erotic materials. Firstly you have polluted your mind with such materials! Refer to point 2. Repent.
8. Looks like.
9. The remains are just that, we believe they are not dead in spirit, but are with God until the Resurrection.

1. Yeah, you're too busy looking at Jesus' abs and reciting credo on autopilot to really assess what is it that you believe in. I've worshiped like that before. It's like maintenance sex with your girlfriend. Catholics do this much too often, so thanks for acknowledging that I am right about this.

2. See #3.
3. Kiddie diddling and homosexual conduct are explicitly forbidden, and yet the behavior was and in some cases (esp. consensual, homosexual sex between adult Catholic priests) is rampant within the church. There were homo sex parties within the Vatican in the 2020s, all hush-hush, don't-ask-dont-tell, we-dont-talk-about-fight-club style. If you think sexuality is so sacred, and that homosexuality is a sin, why has the priesthood been structured to attract exactly the kind of perverts who don't want to marry women, and perhaps enjoy a lot of access to troubled kids? Allowing priestly marriage is a warning system, a safety valve: their spouse is not only a deterrent to this behavior (the married priests I know love their spouses) but if it happened, the spouse would be the first to know. Affairs and child molestation happens in other churches, but within the Catholic Church it was systematic, it went on for decades, the people in charge knew about it, and they didn't do shit about it until like 1999. How do you get past that and still look up to your clergy as someone to learn from?

4. Women are priests, and the scripture reflects that women were very important in the leadership and survival of early church. Women are among the first to learn from Jesus (Luke 10: 38-42, the story of Mary and Martha, you may recall), they're the first to proclaim Jesus' teachings to others (John 4: The Samaritan woman at the well) and they're the first to learn of his resurrection and share that message with Jesus' male disciples. After the ascension, disciples like Paul and Peter rely on rich, widowed women to basically crash at their homes in between preaching.

6. Theres a saying in Chinese: you miss the watermelon to grab the sesame seed. The other side of the coin of guilt is repentance and the action of moving forward. Catholics just wallow in how awful they are and their sense of guilt creates secrecy and the kind of deference to authority that allows #3 to thrive.

7. He's usually depicted almost naked and writhing in agony. Jesus' dick doesn't need to be exposed to make this tableau look sexual. A lot of depictions of martyrdom also look kind of sexual. Probably something to do with that repressed homosexuality rampant in your sect.

8. 'Tis.

9. It makes the church look like a haunted house, but you guys do you. (IMO crematory urns on shelves are quite a bit different from whole dead bodies in glass cases and finger bones inset into gold shrinery.)

Woman in leadership roles tend to be a bit bloody and make things go bad.

This is the real reason the Catholics don't want women in the pulpit. The whole lot of them are sexist, and they like this hide-bound culture of excluding women and pretending "oh my hands are tied, I would if I could but tradition forbids it". Bull shit, you guys pulled off reform before and you could do it now if you felt like it. Allowing already-married priests into the Catholic Church (e.g. Caroline Farrow's husband) is an unacceptable carve-out/bending of the rules to my eyes. If you'll let married men on board why not women? "It's tradition" is not a sufficient answer.

 

[Stan]

Also: you people talk like your experts, but did any of you even bother to go to Church to catch Palm Sunday? Are you aware that it's Holy Week and have some plan to observe it? Are you gonna fast on Good Friday? When was the last time you went to church, worshiped, or even prayed? Be honest with yourselves. I really don't expect Kiwi Farmers to be a church-going bunch to tell you the truth.

 

[Balalaika Z Bree]

1. ...thanks for acknowledging that I am right about this

I conceded nothing.

2. See #3.
3. Kiddie diddling ...

There are temptations and sins with all fallen humans. I do not know if what you allege is true, and if any are true how commonplace they are.
Is the celibate priesthood structured to attract the wicked as you claim?, well since they were routinely given unsupervised access to children you would be correct for much of the past, were it not for the fact that wasn't the priesthood by itself, but the teaching, coaching and other vocations/careers where children were not protected, as proven by all the scandals whenever and wherever these failures happened, in other organizations and institutions.
A lot of abuse and mishandling of cases happened. I forgive them and pray for the perpetrators, hoping they will be confess their sins, face justice, and be healed. I especially pray for the victims, that they might be healed and saved.

4. Women are priests...

Women are kingdom priests, by virtue of their Baptism.
There were female judges and prophetesses (Moses' sister Miriam most famously), but as far as I'm aware there was never a woman priestess or high priestess either of the Aaronic priesthood, or in the priesthood in the order of Melchizedek. Women are created in the image and likeness of God, are not lesser than men in dignity (the only true measure), in fact the most powerful Saint, the only sinless man or woman since the fall is a woman, the blessed Virgin Mary.

6. ...guilt creates secrecy and the kind of deference to authority that allows #3 to thrive.

That's one way of interpreting it. I think we need to feel guilty if we are going to become saints. Falling short protecting children is something worth feeling a profound sense of shame about, hopefully enough to pray and act for it to change.

7. He's usually depicted almost naked and writhing in agony. Jesus' dick doesn't need to be exposed to make this tableau look sexual. A lot of depictions of martyrdom also look kind of sexual. Probably something to do with that repressed homosexuality rampant in your sect.

May God have mercy on you. If anyone has disordered desires, as you appear to have when looking at sacred art, may they be given the grace to resist any temptations, and the wisdom to deny it. Repression is a loaded term, like calling a woman or man that wants a baby to not be butchered alive or suffocated in the womb "anti choice".

8. 'Tis. & 9.

But surely you would agree that appearances can be deceptive?

Also: you people talk like your experts, but did any of you even bother to go to Church to catch Palm Sunday? Are you aware that it's Holy Week and have some plan to observe it? Are you gonna fast on Good Friday? When was the last time you went to church, worshiped, or even prayed? Be honest with yourselves. I really don't expect Kiwi Farmers to be a church-going bunch to tell you the truth.

Palm Sunday is not just a Holy Day, it's the first day of Holy Week. Fasting* is obligatory on Good Friday, certainly I will try to make it on only water.
*which for Catholics typically means abstaining from meat, no full size meals, and eat no more than 3 times total. Also the elderly, young and pregnant need not be even that strict, so it's pretty minimal whats required.

 

[Stan]

There are temptations and sins with all fallen humans. I do not know if what you allege is true, and if any are true how commonplace they are.
Is the celibate priesthood structured to attract the wicked as you claim?, well since they were routinely given unsupervised access to children you would be correct for much of the past, were it not for the fact that wasn't the priesthood by itself, but the teaching, coaching and other vocations/careers where children were not protected, as proven by all the scandals whenever and wherever these failures happened, in other organizations and institutions.
A lot of abuse and mishandling of cases happened. I forgive them and pray for the perpetrators, hoping they will be confess their sins, face justice, and be healed. I especially pray for the victims, that they might be healed and saved.

You don't know if what I allege about the recent sex parties in the Vatican is true because you don't want to hear about it (very Catholic of you.) Here's an article about recent gay sex parties within the Vatican. I hope you're not anti-Semitic as well, and won't consider this just because the story ran in Ha'aretz. The author of the book in question says senior priests even came onto him, while he was in the Vatican writing it.
You're just pretentiously talking in circles about hopes and prayers while the Church makes few meaningful changes. Francis is trying to steer the herd in a direction it plainly does not want to go. What has the institution of the Catholic church done to earn back your trust like that? And is their sinning even yours to forgive?

The Catholic priesthood is (perhaps accidentally) structured to attract men who are OK with not marrying women. Early early Catholics allowed marriage, but it was banned around 305 AD (Synod of Elvira) for the purpose of making sure Church property stayed in the church. As a knock-on efffect, it made the seminary/monestary exactly where the gay people will want to go, in order to not have to fake interest in a heterosexual marriage, and also, gain a measure of status in the community.

May God have mercy on you. If anyone has disordered desires, as you appear to have when looking at sacred art, may they be given the grace to resist any temptations, and the wisdom to deny it.

So wait, the Catholics put up naked statues of dying Jesus, writhing in agony, barely clothed,on their altars, year-round, on the jewerly, freaking everywhere, and I'm the one with disordered desires? I'm the one just reading into things wrongly?
You have to be kidding either me, or yourself. Showing the congregants snuff film / nearly-naked Jesus both dilutes the power of the image when you should contemplate it, and also, it illustrates that your church is run by homos.

Palm Sunday is not just a Holy Day, it's the first day of Holy Week. Fasting* is obligatory on Good Friday, certainly I will try to make it on only water.
*which for Catholics typically means abstaining from meat, no full size meals, and eat no more than 3 times total. Also the elderly, young and pregnant need not be even that strict, so it's pretty minimal whats required.

You're welcome for the reminder, but you're not answering my question: When was the last time your ass made it into church?

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

@Stan What you're calling Halloween, or comparing to pornographic, imagery is kind of the point of the whole thing.
I watched Passion of the Christ something like a year ago, and it made a big impression on me. The torture of a man, for little more than standing up to the corruption of worldly authorities, in that manner - flesh stripped from his back by lashes, thorns driven into his head, muscle and back broken carrying his cross, and then to be stabbed through the hands, muscles tearing under his own weight, until a death of exhaustion, is absolutely brutal. And the Christian religion's main point, whether or not it makes sense on the whole, is that he voluntarily went through that as a sort of blood sacrifice to take the punishment for you that you deserve, everybody deserves, not so much because of anything you've done but more because of the deep potential for evil that rests in all of us.

It is powerful, haunting imagery, and it's kind of sad that many churches downplay it for some cuddly Jesus that conveys only comfort, not loss or suffering.

 

[Stan]

@Stan What you're calling Halloween, or comparing to pornographic, imagery is kind of the point of the whole thing.
I watched Passion of the Christ something like a year ago, and it made a big impression on me. The torture of a man, for little more than standing up to the corruption of worldly authorities, in that manner - flesh stripped from his back by lashes, thorns driven into his head, muscle and back broken carrying his cross, and then to be stabbed through the hands, muscles tearing under his own weight, until a death of exhaustion, is absolutely brutal. And the Christian religion's main point, whether or not it makes sense on the whole, is that he voluntarily went through that as a sort of blood sacrifice to take the punishment for you that you deserve, everybody deserves, not so much because of anything you've done but more because of the deep potential for evil that rests in all of us.

It is powerful, haunting imagery, and it's kind of sad that many churches downplay it for some cuddly Jesus that conveys only comfort, not loss or suffering.

Yeah it's a great movie. I just think it's more appropriate to contemplate these things at certain times (like, this week would be a great week to watch Passion of the Christ.) I hope that I'm not being mistaken to say that we shouldn't imagine Christ's sufferings and venerate the crucifix when it's appropriate; I just find the crucifix is a poweful symbol and overused in the Catholic Church, and paradoxically you get inured to it from seeing it so often. And I suspect that a mostly-gay priesthood appreciates looking at these figures and has some ulterior motive for displaying it so often.

 

[Wendigo]

The title of this thread in itself makes no sense. It's faith. There's no fact or reality in the faith itself. That's why it's called faith.

 

[WhiskeyJack]

Weird how these types of threads are always about Catholics, and never Baptists or any of the other hundred-odd Protestant groups.

I’ve never really seen a Catholic obsess over evangelicals the way evangelicals focus on Catholics. Sorta feels like the “jealous ex-girlfriend” mentality you see with Atheists obsessing over Christians, while forgetting every other religion.

 

[God's drunkest driver]

I'm not a catholic, but that comes down more to family tradition and connection in my case than any deep consideration of denomination. This thread is more informative than expected though. I have taken issue with the current pope's obvious shaking up of the church, but much like having a jabbering old fool as a president doesn't invalidate the historical foundation of the US, I don't think having a strange leftist globalist pope undoes Catholicism.

A lot of depictions of martyrdom also look kind of sexual. Probably something to do with that repressed homosexuality rampant in your sect.

This comment just reeks of closeted homosexuality or depraved mind, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, Sigmund. When I look at iconography this is not present in my mind. This manner of thinking is just poisonous, an out of context surface level resemblance to something sexual immediately stirring those thoughts in you... God help you.

 

[Stan]

Oh God won’t someone think of the children *clutches pearls*

sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, Sigmund. When I look at iconography this is not present in my mind. This manner of thinking is just poisonous, an out of context surface level resemblance to something sexual immediately stirring those thoughts in you... God help you.

I call them like I see them. This is what I see: distorted repressed homosexuality overburdened with images of suffering too grim for S&M.

 

[Betonhaus]

Oh God won’t someone think of the children *clutches pearls*

I call them like I see them. This is what I see: distorted repressed homosexuality overburdened with images of suffering too grim for S&M.

Most representations of Jesus on the cross have him as lanky with ribs visible and with gashes and bleeding. It represents the moment of his death and is seen as such. It is no more sexual then a men's change room at the local pool that has senior's classes, something that most people don't see sexual at all.

 

[Kickster]

>following a religion developed by jews and sandniggers