Catholicism, the one true faith?

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Kujo Jotaro

Kujo Jotaro

Swag Messiah
kiwifarms.net
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21 de Dic, 2018
If you're a catholic convert what convinced you of the validity of the catholic faith?

If you were raised a catholic, and at one point considered leaving what inspired you to remain?

What is in your mind the best argument for points of contention such as, Confession(in a catholic context), the position of the Pope(not specifically the current pope), Marian devotion, and communion. Please refrain from simply quoting scripture, elaborate and give an interpretation of it.

What are your thoughts/opinions of Eastern Orthodoxy?
 
Why is Confession an issue? It's a place for you to express things that you know you have done wrong which is good for you. You then are given a penance to do, not as a punishment or resolution, but for you to think about what you did and why you shouldn't do it again, and because of the absolute forgiveness of God, when you are truly sorry for the sins you commit, you are forgiven for them. Confession is not something required to be done with a priest, you can do it alone, but the church holds that it is helpful to people to have someone there to listen and reassure you.

People who have a problem with the position of the Pope usually think that the church is run as a papal dictatorship because they're projecting their insecurities about their own church, religion, or belief system onto it, where they dogmatically take word for word whatever their chief admin says, which simply is not the case in the Catholic church as an international entity, local bishops are far closer to this role, and there is a profound amount of disagreement and debate within the church about everything. Also, papal infallibility is more of a logical byproduct of several different roles held by the pope and has never and nor will ever be exercised.

Mary was born and lived without sin which allowed her to give birth to the wholly human and wholly divine Jesus Christ, and making her unique among all people. In any culture, that's worthy of praise and emulation. Catholicism holds that you can pray to saints to intercede on your behalf, or the behalf of others when praying to God, and the saint who is wholly without sin is a pretty worthy one to have in your corner.

Communion is in essence a connection to the last supper, by following that ritual, you are spiritually in the same moment as the last supper. You are in communion with with Jesus and all other people who have taken the communion before you at the moment of the creation of the new covenant with God.
It is a single unifying experience for all Catholics, to be part of the agreement with God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, that you will be part of his church, and in return, Jesus, the Lamb of God, who is perfectly without sin, will sacrifice himself to wash away the original sin from all who are baptised.

Pretty much all criticisms by protestants of the Catholic Church on a spiritual or philosophical level can be attributed to either sheltered literalism or willful ignorance.

From my encounters with the orthodox church, they seem more concerned with reinterpreting their own scriptures than engaging with a living world which has always been both the greatest strength and weakness of the Catholic Church (Looking into the abyss and all that).
 
CryoRevival #SJ-112 dijo:
Catholicism holds that you can pray to saints to intercede on your behalf, or the behalf of others when praying to God, and the saint who is wholly without sin is a pretty worthy one to have in your corner
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'K, so lets take cancer from Little Timmy. He was supposed to die, but my favorite saints are oppose this idea, so let him be alive'.

Catholics still think that Allah is working like a random bussinessman. And you can negotiate with Him.
 
I'm born and baptized Catholic, but not actively practicing. I appreciate that I can rejoin at any time and drop back into it, as i didn't have to turn in my temple garments because I stopped paying the subscription fees to the faith. Catholicsm, like most faiths, has a large component that is roughly equivalent to current mental health sciences. Confession can be therapeutic, giving you a chance to talk out the problems bothering you and reach some sort of resolution internally. Even Sunday mass builds a weekly routine where you have one day set aside to reset and prepare for the week, something you wont get if you party all weekend or plow through work nonstop. Sure the pope and his colleagues define church doctrine, but unless you literally live in the Vatican your local church and pastors can clarify doctrine to suite the local environment. In essence it's a way of life, a community that can build you up and support you when you're down. Many of the details can be considered window-dressing, but they have been slowly refined and adapted over a couple thousand years or so.

I know very little about the Orthodox faiths, but I liken it to this: if Christianity was a music band, Catholics would be listening to it in the car on their commute to and from work, finding meaning in the lyrics. But when it's time to leave the car they turn off the music and go on with their day. Orthodox faiths would be more like audiophiles that insist on listening to the music ONLY with the proper equipment, and it'll almost always have a background presence. Evangelicals have an unhealthy obsession with the music but have changed the lyrics somewhat. They bought all the merchandise for the band and pay Ticketmaster for tickets to all the shows, and expect the bandmembers to be their personal friends and give them stuff.

I don't know if I'd declare it the one true faith, but if i'm going to be picking and choosing which values I hold I'm better off going off the source material - instead of a derivative faith that cuts out segments that may be relevent to me and replace them with segments that are untested or solely serve the creator's interests.
 
Última edición:
Yes. Without powerleveling, I'll just say all of my doubts have been put to rest by learning more about the faith.

The points of contention you mention are best argued for and understood by the Traditions of the Church, since that is how we know which books are scripture (and which ones are not, like the book of Mormon) and how to interpret those texts faithfully. Councils of Church Fathers, in Communion with the Pope, gathered and produced teachings like the Nicene Creed to defend us from heretical interpretations. Later councils and other authoritative Church teachings did likewise, recognizing and clarifying important long standing beliefs.

We can make arguments for these teachings from reason alone or with limited or corrupted scriptures (e.g. the mere 66 books of some groups, and the heavily edited Gospels of the JW's) but that is specialist and focused apologetics.

Eastern Orthodoxy is much closer to the true faith that most non-Catholic Christian sects since it maintains true Sacraments and Apostolic Succession. The Ethnic component of many Churches might be a stumbling block for some but I don't think it's really about exclusion, more about celebrating and loving their heritage.
 
The idea of a bread god is insane.

But our wonder should be far greater when we find that in obedience to the words of his priests-----HOC EST CORPUS MEUM-----God Himself descends on the altar, that He comes wherever they call Him, and as often as they call Him, and places Himself in their hands, even though they should be His enemies. And after having come, He remains, entirely at their disposal; they move Him as they please, from one place to another; they may, if they wish, shut Him up in the tabernacle, or expose Him on the altar, or carry Him outside the church; they may, if they choose, eat His flesh and give Him for the food of others.

The Saint assigns the reason of the superiority of the priesthood over Mary; she conceived Jesus Christ only once; but by consecrating the Eucharist, the priest, as it were, conceives Him as often as he wishes, so that if the person of the Redeemer had not as yet been in the world, the priest, by pronouncing the words of consecration, would produce this great person of a Man-God.

Thus the priest may, in a certain manner, be called the creator of his Creator, since by saying the words of consecration, he creates, as it were, Jesus in the Sacrament, by giving Him a Sacramental existence, and produces Him as a victim to be offered to the eternal Father. As in creating the world it was sufficient for God to have said, Let it be made, and it was created-----He spoke, and they were made-----so it is sufficient for the priest to say, "Hoc est corpus meum," and behold the bread is no longer bread, but the body of Jesus Christ. "The power of the priest," says St. Bernardine of Sienna, "is the power of the Divine person; for the transubstantiation of the bread requires as much power as the creation of the world."
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Protistology dijo:
The idea of a bread god is insane.
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I wouldn't have guessed that God would take bread and wine offered up and make it his actual flesh and blood, without changing it's physical properties.

Although I would never have guessed that God could take on a human nature, and a flesh and blood man who walked and talked was both fully man and fully God, and the same can be said for the majority of divine revelation.

I agree it appears insane in at least one sense, that is: the idea is not one we could invent normally while thinking plainly and simply, in time and reality as we experience it with minds shaped be by our limitations.. Rather than being the nonsense or disorder of fairly typical insane ideas it is however the perfectly ordered thinking of a far greater mind.

Isaiah 55:8-9
For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, says the Lord.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
 
Believing that Christine W. Chandler is the second coming of Christ appears insane in at least one sense, that is: the idea is not one we could invent normally while thinking plainly and simply, in time and reality as we experience it with minds shaped be by our limitations.. Rather than being the nonsense or disorder of fairly typical insane ideas it is however the perfectly ordered thinking of a far greater mind.
 
samarinda dijo:
Believing that Christine W. Chandler is the second coming of Christ appears insane in at least one sense, that is: the idea is not one we could invent normally while thinking plainly and simply, in time and reality as we experience it with minds shaped be by our limitations.. Rather than being the nonsense or disorder of fairly typical insane ideas it is however the perfectly ordered thinking of a far greater mind.
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I'm sure everyone appreciates your well thought out and tactful contribution to the thread.
 
would catholicism be THE faith in the sense it's best out of the worst? Eastern Orthodox might be around a similar level, but I don't know that much about it. They are both better than Protestantism or Mormons, for sure. The Orthodox might be more based because it's not Western, and Constantinople is closer to Jerusalem and the earliest churches were in Asia Minor. Most of the defining Councils were also before the split, so I don't think there're any you know, MAJOR issues there.

Catholics are definitely better than any Protestant bs, I think we can all agree on that. Anglicans are the best example of how you shouldn't even start trying to tweak the scripture to your own desires. You'd think changing that one thing about divorce and get some more land won't change that much. few centuries down the line they let sodomites be priests
 
Betonhaus dijo:
I'm sure everyone appreciates your well thought out and tactful contribution to the thread.
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My apologies if this thread is only intended to be a space for Cathologic apologism. Religious arguments tend to be a bit logically flimsy and I only meant to highlight that.

I tend to think more along Kierkegaard's views on religion, that it ought to be more about the individual's personal exploration of, experience of faith in the unknowable, than depending on dogma/ritual.

I'll see myself out.
 
samarinda dijo:
My apologies if this thread is only intended to be a space for Cathologic apologism. Religious arguments tend to be a bit logically flimsy and I only meant to highlight that.

I tend to think more along Kierkegaard's views on religion, that it ought to be more about the individual's personal exploration of, experience of faith in the unknowable, than depending on dogma/ritual.

I'll see myself out.
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this used to be me, but Saint Paul changed my mind.

if you are interested in Kierkegaard, maybe you'll also appreciate the gnostics. Your view is very close to early "Gnostics." Gnosis--knowledge/wisdom of the divine is the key to salvation, not all those "fluff" stuff. This one of my favourite, Gospel of Thomas, just 114 sayings. http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html
These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke and Didymos Judas Thomas recorded.

1. And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."
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Many Gnostic schools don't believe Jesus was truly human, like he was an apparition. Some think there was no resurrection. In general very palpable to the modern mind
 
samarinda dijo:
Believing that Christine W. Chandler is the second coming of Christ...
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Unfortunately that swapout doesn't work. Scripture describes a second coming in a remarkable way that has yet to be seen:
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.
At any rate, I'm not a Christorian but I think I can see the merge has not yet taken place, so the obvious comparison will have to wait. Long story short CWC is a mortal man born in many of our lifetimes. Jesus is Almighty God who has taken on a human nature and has been born, put to death, and been raised, immortal and indestructible.

Sissyagamben dijo:
would catholicism be THE faith in the sense it's best out of the worst? Eastern Orthodox might be around a similar level, but I don't know that much about it. They are both better than Protestantism or Mormons, for sure. The Orthodox might be more based because it's not Western, and Constantinople is closer to Jerusalem and the earliest churches were in Asia Minor. Most of the defining Councils were also before the split, so I don't think there're any you know, MAJOR issues there.

Catholics are definitely better than any Protestant bs, I think we can all agree on that. Anglicans are the best example of how you shouldn't even start trying to tweak the scripture to your own desires. You'd think changing that one thing about divorce and get some more land won't change that much. few centuries down the line they let sodomites be priests
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I wouldn't be so sure, until harvest it's not wise to claim to know the final fruit yield of any given branch. I do not see the arguments made by Protestants as holding nearly as much water as the Orthodox Churches, but I can't condemn anyone who sincerely believes them, beyond warning them how wrong they are in the Churches eyes of course.
Definitely I'd put the Mormons in the same bin as the JW's and other non-Christian Cults, while most Protestants (except Unitarian heretics etc.) very much belong on this side of the Christian i.e. Trinitarian definition.
My view is that we can't judge the branches claiming to be the whole or part of the true Church by individuals in it, but by the fruit it bears, and while each group will always struggle against wickedness, some have clearly deadly fruit as you mention, a clear indication that it is no longer abiding in the vine.

samarinda dijo:
My apologies if this thread is only intended to be a space for Cathologic apologism. Religious arguments tend to be a bit logically flimsy and I only meant to highlight that.

I tend to think more along Kierkegaard's views on religion, that it ought to be more about the individual's personal exploration of, experience of faith in the unknowable, than depending on dogma/ritual.

I'll see myself out.
Presiona para expandir...
Most arguments are logically flimsy if not outright illogical, common examples would be emotional appeals or popular opinions being true because they are popular.

I am convinced that it must be a personal relationship with God, that just as judgement will be personal we must co-operate with Gods grace personally, not least through humble obedience to how he has asked to be worshiped, and who's authority he has asked us to submit ourselves to.
As St. Ignatius of Antioch in his Epistle to the Smyrnaeans wrote in the first century or so of Christianity: See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop.
 
Catholicism sucks and if you're Catholic, it's because you either haven't fully considered the meaning of the religion you're born into, or, you did, and you decided that all of this is good actually.
So here are my problems with Catholicism:

1. You're not supposed to ask questions or try to interpret the Bible yourself. Asking questions about the faith is discouraged.
2. Dogmatic rules about contraception, abortion, homosexuals. Each one of these probably deserves its own bullet point
3. Clergy is contains closeted homosexuals and pedophiles, and even the priests who weren't involved covered for those who did for decades, and still do
4. Will not ordain women to the priesthood; sexist. Should allow priestly marriage but does not.
5. The monetary embezzlement, both historically and presently
6. The weird guilt culture
7. Naked dying Jesus statues everywhere. Crucifixion scenes are less meaningful if you show them to me every freaking day. I also find them vaguely pornographic/snuff filmy.
8. Too many amulets and little saint creches everywhere, looks like polytheism sometimes.
9. The relics and reliquaries, literally keeping little pieces of what they believe are the dead bodies of the saints on display.

I guess I could say some good things about Catholics. Episcopals and Anglicans have to team up with them time to time, for charitable initiatives and all that. They certainly pull a lot more numbers in the Hispanic community. But whenever I interact with invested, practicing Catholics I wonder about their sanity.
 
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