Balatro is banned at my house - Feeding my gambling addiction

[gagabobo1997]

I can't in good conscience recommend Balatro to anybody because it is just way too random for there to be meaningful skill expression.
As in, there are many runs that, due to the extent of randomness, are doomed to fail regardless of how skilled or resourceful the player is.
I don't like the kind of game where you might as well just reset or restart within the first minutes.

I don't think its a problem. The dev said that a perfect player should be able to win 100% of runs on white stake, so at the very least the game is designed to not be super restart heavy for a skilled player. The beta patch also buffs alot to try to cut down on holding R.
Plus I think it fits the poker theme. With poker/gambling in general, sometimes you just lose to random chance and there's nothing you could've done.

 

[latinlover]

I can't in good conscience recommend Balatro to anybody because it is just way too random for there to be meaningful skill expression.
As in, there are many runs that, due to the extent of randomness, are doomed to fail regardless of how skilled or resourceful the player is.
I don't like the kind of game where you might as well just reset or restart within the first minutes.

There are Slay the Spire players who have win streaks of 50 or whatever against the Heart on A20, Balatro is quite similar in that sense, perhaps it is marginally more RNG heavy- I think a good player still can win the vast majority of their games without spamming restarts, and as someone else said earlier, winning 100% of them on white stake isn't an insane feat.

I think the biggest bait with balatro is trying to go for the crazy scaling jokers like DNA instead of mediocre ones providing immediate value, unless you find a really good seed your chances of going naneinf or whatever the fuck on a random one is extremely slim, so just aim for ante 8.

 

[George Lucas]

Using green deck on red stake, I unlocked my first legendary joker relatively early and then got another one before ante 8, made an insane build with Smeared and the club and spade multiplier jokers, destroyed nearly all my hearts and diamonds, got Card Sharp and some useful negatives, and have several copies of face cards with various enhancements including steels. I can consistently get flush and flush houses and got something like 2.2 million in one hand. I finished ante 8 and will do endless later.

What’s weird is that I only got one planet card for flush. It actually caused me to struggle in the midgame because I didn’t have Card Sharp and lacked multipliers.

 

[buying gf]

Just finished Completionist++. A weight has been lifted from my neck. I have touched neither grass nor woman for two and a half months.

Time to try some mods I guess.

 

[Terror Sandwich]

Imagine not winning a game in over 8 hours, how bad can someone be at games?

 

[Drael]

Would have been great if I'd known about this 2 months ago when I had less going on, because this game is a real Time Vampire. Maybe I'm approaching it wrong, but it feels like unless you get a decent joker within the first few rounds you might as well start over.

 

[thejackal2]

I'm not very good at this game but I fucking love it. Holy shit it's like Slay the Spire except a million times better. Cracking packs is addictive. I've come close to beating it a couple times but got fucked by the last boss. Over 10 hours in, I'm not good but learning more about the various synergies is taking some time.

 

[Spasticus Autisticus]

Would have been great if I'd known about this 2 months ago when I had less going on, because this game is a real Time Vampire. Maybe I'm approaching it wrong, but it feels like unless you get a decent joker within the first few rounds you might as well start over.

No, that is pretty much how the game is, especially at the higher difficulty levels. It becomes a game of startscumming until you get a seed that actually gives you the balance of jokers you need to scale up. RNG is going to be a part of every roguelike/lite but good ones give skilled players flexibility to overcome RNG to some extent. Balatro just doesn't have that.

 

[thejackal2]

No, that is pretty much how the game is, especially at the higher difficulty levels. It becomes a game of startscumming until you get a seed that actually gives you the balance of jokers you need to scale up. RNG is going to be a part of every roguelike/lite but good ones give skilled players flexibility to overcome RNG to some extent. Balatro just doesn't have that.

I'd argue getting screwed by RNG is just part of the rogue like experience as well. I had a memorable character in Unreal World die because in full metal armor an arrow pierced his eye, hey shit happens, time to start a new run. Sucks but bad luck being a thing isn't necessarily bad or good it's just there and single player that's cool.

 

[Spasticus Autisticus]

I'd argue getting screwed by RNG is just part of the rogue like experience as well. I had a memorable character in Unreal World die because in full metal armor an arrow pierced his eye, hey shit happens, time to start a new run. Sucks but bad luck being a thing isn't necessarily bad or good it's just there and single player that's cool.

Unlucky runs are part and parcel of the roguelike experience, sure. Getting zapped by a gnomish wizard's wand of death on Dlvl 3 in Nethack is unlucky. Getting yourself surrounded by a mob of soldier ants isn't unlucky, it's YASD. Balatro doesn't have the YASD moments that you learn from and build upon. It's pretty much either you lose by Ante 3 because it only gave you useless jokers, or you win. Though after the patch it seems like the losing runs can go a little longer since the early ante scaling is less steep, so I guess that's good?

 

[thejackal2]

Unlucky runs are part and parcel of the roguelike experience, sure. Getting zapped by a gnomish wizard's wand of death on Dlvl 3 in Nethack is unlucky. Getting yourself surrounded by a mob of soldier ants isn't unlucky, it's YASD. Balatro doesn't have the YASD moments that you learn from and build upon. It's pretty much either you lose by Ante 3 because it only gave you useless jokers, or you win. Though after the patch it seems like the losing runs can go a little longer since the early ante scaling is less steep, so I guess that's good?

I've had this debate with STS players and don't really have the stomach to rehash it. I'll just say that while bad luck happens, it is on the player to mitigate that bad through smart choices. There are players that can reliably beat STS (at least non ascendancy runs) hundreds of times in a row regardless of what RNG they get.

Now maybe Balatro is different and I have 100x the hours in STS that I currently do in Balatro so give me another month with the game and I'll report back what I think.

 

[Spasticus Autisticus]

I've had this debate with STS players and don't really have the stomach to rehash it. I'll just say that while bad luck happens, it is on the player to mitigate that bad through smart choices. There are players that can reliably beat STS (at least non ascendancy runs) hundreds of times in a row regardless of what RNG they get.

Now maybe Balatro is different and I have 100x the hours in STS that I currently do in Balatro so give me another month with the game and I'll report back what I think.

Keep in mind that I'm mainly talking about higher difficulties. White Stake should be almost always winnable after figuring out the basic mechanics. In fact I think the game is more fun at lower difficulties mainly because the lower scaling gives you the flexibility to take more risks with different strategies that would be too risky to try at higher stakes.

 

[George Lucas]

The game is clearly balanced around white stake, even unlocking the better cards isn’t necessary. You can win white stake outright on a brand new profile.

 

[buying gf]

I agree for the most part that there are some runs which just aren't winnable on gold stake, although I think there are not as many as you might think and I don't find it to be overly frustrating. Compared to The Binding of Isaac, where I think every run/seed is winnable (just dodge better, idiot), obviously it doesn't feel great in Balatro that sometimes you just fucking lose and there's nothing you could have conceivably done about it.

That being said, I would advise against resetting over and over again just because the first few shops didn't give you anything good. The fun part, for me at least, is where you're in survival mode for a while, just eking out round wins using all your hands, having to decide when to dip under the interest cap when you know you're not going to beat the boss blind, but then you find some crazy shit and turn the tables and one shot Violet Vessel. But if that's not your cup of tea, there's literally nothing wrong with playing white stake and winning with whatever you want.

 

[thejackal2]

I agree for the most part that there are some runs which just aren't winnable on gold stake, although I think there are not as many as you might think and I don't find it to be overly frustrating. Compared to The Binding of Isaac, where I think every run/seed is winnable (just dodge better, idiot), obviously it doesn't feel great in Balatro that sometimes you just fucking lose and there's nothing you could have conceivably done about it.

That being said, I would advise against resetting over and over again just because the first few shops didn't give you anything good. The fun part, for me at least, is where you're in survival mode for a while, just eking out round wins using all your hands, having to decide when to dip under the interest cap when you know you're not going to beat the boss blind, but then you find some crazy shit and turn the tables and one shot Violet Vessel. But if that's not your cup of tea, there's literally nothing wrong with playing white stake and winning with whatever you want.

Got my first win on white stake and was a stupidly OP hand at the end thanks to the joker combo. The big one was getting the one that 1X one that gains power every time you open a planet pack. I had the boost of more planet packs appear and by the 8th ante that joker was like X3.5 on all my other mults.

I def see what you're saying on the jokers at higher levels. Even at white stake I've realized I need to get a X mult joker going early or I'll be out scaled by the middle antes.

Also, took me like 10 runs before I found out you could turn off the stupid CRT noise. Much nicer visual experience now.

 

[George Lucas]

Got my first win on white stake and was a stupidly OP hand at the end thanks to the joker combo. The big one was getting the one that 1X one that gains power every time you open a planet pack. I had the boost of more planet packs appear and by the 8th ante that joker was like X3.5 on all my other mults.

I def see what you're saying on the jokers at higher levels. Even at white stake I've realized I need to get a X mult joker going early or I'll be out scaled by the middle antes.

Also, took me like 10 runs before I found out you could turn off the stupid CRT noise. Much nicer visual experience now.

Here’s what I’ve found:
Early game: <4 ante, +mult joker is needed to survive, foil and holographic are viable, try to get at least one good scalable joker, get a joker that earns money, early held-in-hand jokers can lead to smart setups with spectral and tarot cards
Mid-game: 3-6 ante, foils and chips aren’t so great, start thinking more about deck comp, some kind of multiplier is needed, scalable jokers or jokers that operate by card should be sought out
Late game: up to 8 ante, go for big multipliers, look to move from chips/mult jokers to mult cards and bonus cards. Don’t bother with holographic anymore. Polychrome is still okay
Post-game: focus on per-card/held in hand multiplication with a big multiplier at the end, illegal hands or four-of-a-kind/straight flushes need to be got consistently

Choosing between spectral, tarot, and planet is more situational. Spectral seems to work better early, before you have to commit to a certain deck composition, tarot is situational, planet works better later unless you are doing a multiple hand, weak hands strategy or have money to burn. Negative jokers are usually worth it.

 

[thejackal2]

Here’s what I’ve found:
Early game: <4 ante, +mult joker is needed to survive, foil and holographic are viable, try to get at least one good scalable joker, get a joker that earns money, early held-in-hand jokers can lead to smart setups with spectral and tarot cards
Mid-game: 3-6 ante, foils and chips aren’t so great, start thinking more about deck comp, some kind of multiplier is needed, scalable jokers or jokers that operate by card should be sought out
Late game: up to 8 ante, go for big multipliers, look to move from chips/mult jokers to mult cards and bonus cards. Don’t bother with holographic anymore. Polychrome is still okay
Post-game: focus on per-card/held in hand multiplication with a big multiplier at the end, illegal hands or four-of-a-kind/straight flushes need to be got consistently

Choosing between spectral, tarot, and planet is more situational. Spectral seems to work better early, before you have to commit to a certain deck composition, tarot is situational, planet works better later unless you are doing a multiple hand, weak hands strategy or have money to burn. Negative jokers are usually worth it.

What do you think about planet card strategy? Joker specific? Do you try and focus on one hand or level up broadly. I guess those are all run and joker specific tactics. I think everything is downstream of what jokers you get in the first few antes. Then you should use the card upgrades and hand upgrades to focus on what your jokers are boosting.

Felt good to get that win last night and still learning things (like a lot of the boss debuffs) going to play so much over the long weekend, weather looks shit so perfect excuse to vidya.

 

[George Lucas]

What do you think about planet card strategy? Joker specific? Do you try and focus on one hand or level up broadly. I guess those are all run and joker specific tactics. I think everything is downstream of what jokers you get in the first few antes. Then you should use the card upgrades and hand upgrades to focus on what your jokers are boosting.

Felt good to get that win last night and still learning things (like a lot of the boss debuffs) going to play so much over the long weekend, weather looks shit so perfect excuse to vidya.

In general, I find it’s better to go with the stronger hand planet cards, as those scale mult up faster, but if you are using a certain hand a lot, like supernova+card sharp, then go for that one (and hopefully get telescope, astronomer, etc.).

Planet cards can be used to replace a mult joker with a multiplier joker. You start with a mult joker while your levels are low, then swap it out with a multiplier once you’ve gotten your levels high enough.

 

[thejackal2]

In general, I find it’s better to go with the stronger hand planet cards, as those scale mult up faster, but if you are using a certain hand a lot, like supernova+card sharp, then go for that one (and hopefully get telescope, astronomer, etc.).

Planet cards can be used to replace a mult joker with a multiplier joker. You start with a mult joker while your levels are low, then swap it out with a multiplier once you’ve gotten your levels high enough.

Space joker seems pretty damn good if you get it right off the bat and can spam hands on the low antes to trigger it.

Edit: got a couple more white stake wins last night. Made it to Ante 11 on one of them. I had Space Joker with duplicate joker and that levelled up my hands fast, that was a fun run.

 

[thejackal2]

Can't edit my post but got wins on the first 6 run types now on white stake. The joker that destroys a random one but levels up its x every time is awesome.