AI Derangement Syndrome / Anti-AI artists / Pro-AI technocultists / AI "debate" communities - The Natural Retardation in the Artificial Intelligence communities

[AnOminous]

Also, if Kamala Harris were to have took an extremely harsh anti-AI stance, going as far as to purging all companies involved with AI Soviet Union-style, and giving people the death penalty to not only themselves, but their entire family and friends, just for using AI once, would that have gotten her enough votes to win the 2024 Presidential Election?

No, it would have just gotten her even more well known as a nigger nepo baby.

 

[Runch]

The "art" in "Fountain" was not the urinal, nor even signing it, but the intense critique Duchamp was applying to the slavish following of the "art community" and its adherence to formality. Basically, "this is the shit (and literal piss) being passed off as art."

Agreed, and going back to the original discussion, it wasn't "a skilled expression" unless you consider the ability to subvert prevailing narratives to be skilled.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Yes, obviously a lot of people value aesthetically pleasing, obviously skilled art to be better or worth more to them, that's fine too. But it doesn't mean shitty art isn't still art.

A lot of AI creations are shitty art, I don't think anyone disputes that, in the same way that the Internet has been drowning in shitty photography since it began. That doesn't mean that AI isn't also a potential path to making good art.

 

[FILTH Tourist]

Photography takes skill to be "art," digital animation/drawing takes skill, art generally implies skill expression. What I have yet to understand is: what skills do you really use in prompting AI?

Photography relies more on taste than skill to be good art. AI is the same way, if you have good taste you can make creations that out do skilled artists with poor taste. Unfortunately most people have shit taste so most art AI or man made is garbage.

 

[Waifuwars]

Photography relies more on taste than skill to be good art. AI is the same way, if you have good taste you can make creations that out do skilled artists with poor taste. Unfortunately most people have shit taste so most art AI or man made is garbage.

To add, AI art can get a lot more complex than just "enter prompt, get 1girl out". Most people are satisfied with just that (just like how most people are satisfied with shitty photography), but the real hobbyists will get into very complex workflows in ComfyUI with multiple models to build out reference sheets, image to image workflows, editing workflows, fine tuning their own models, etc. There's still some level of technical skill involved, especially in the local scene.

 

[SoleniyKraut]

No, art is simply expression. There are no adjectives attached to the word on its own. You can make ugly art or boring art or lazy art, but it's still all art.

How can you even refute the example I gave? Someone takes a bad photo where they fucked up, frames it, and gives it a story intended to prompt thoughtfulness in the viewer. On what basis is that not art?

You are operating with a concept, which you abstractly change while reasoning. You'll eventually hit a circular loop if you'll think this way. You're forgoing definitions.

By the definition I gave - what you described is not art because it's an image, made without application of skill, which is then given meaning by the author after it was created, I.E it was not made with a developed idea in mind. Any meaning it may have is not apparent, or is not symbolically held by any components of the image, and the image itself lacks harmony - therefore is hard to comprehend.

You specifically worded it as "Fucked up", this means that the disorder in said photo was not intentional, it's a mistake. And the person simply lies to somehow cover up said mistake. Any implied "thoughtfulness" is mental masturbation, an attempt to reasonably interpret that which was not reasonably designed.


A more concrete definition of art, which is similar to the one I gave, courtesy of Webster 1828:

Skill is literally integral for the definition of art.

You are not going to solve this. This is a fucking internet forum about a retarded sonic fan that raped his mother. The question of what is or isn't art is millenia old. You are not going to find an answer here.

People already solved it many years before you or I even thought about it. I'm posting because I want to.

It's beautiful but is it intelligible?

It's not beautiful because it's unintelligible.

 

[Runch]

By the definition I gave - what you described is not art because it's an image, made without application of skill, which is then given meaning by the author after it was created, I.E it was not made with a developed idea in mind. Any meaning it may have is not apparent, or is not symbolically held by any components of the image, and the image itself lacks harmony - therefore is hard to comprehend.

Yes, exactly like Duchamp's Fountain, which was meaning ascribed to a random object after the fact. It calls out to the viewer to observe the mundane in a different way, to reassess their assumptions and view things from a different angle. It is indisputably art, no matter how it began.

You specifically worded it as "Fucked up", this means that the disorder in said photo was not intentional, it's a mistake. And the person simply lies to somehow cover up said mistake. Any implied "thoughtfulness" is mental masturbation, an attempt to reasonably interpret that which was not reasonably designed.

Even lying is expression, and doing so with artistic intent would still be art. Duchamp was "lying" when he presented the urinal as his art, because it was not anything he made, demonstrating no particular skill. He barely had a hand in it at all, just a signature which was also not his own. It was still an important piece of expression, which made it art.

But no lie is even necessary here; the person who ruined their photo could've had a genuine epiphany that the photo still expressed something interesting, and wanted to share that same thought with others. Which again, is still art. You can present something broken or cracked as art, prompting the viewer to consider whether it's really useless in that state or merely changed to a different state which is beautiful in its own way.

Again, you're not arguing with me, you're arguing with a century of consensus that considers such things to be art.

You refused to answer any of my questions about how you could possibly delineate between some artist's own works, claiming that some are art and others are not, due to not meeting some arbitrary application of excellence in their craft, which you yourself cannot define. You're the one advocating for this absurd definition, and it's a poor one that fails to offer any concrete metric for judging this arbitrary "excellence." Someone else could say "no, you're wrong, those two pieces ARE art and this other one which you claimed is art is actually not," and you would have no defense against this.

The existing definition (not "my" definition, THE definition) works under all circumstances. Anything which someone claims to be their art, IS art. There is no basis to deny them this. You can criticize it all you like, say they're scamming people, or a bad artist, but they still made art.

 

[Miss Violet Beauregarde]

Man i love these talks of definitions, but can we go back to laughing at stupid people?

People are legally trying to get rid of 'art style theft'. (Warning: VERY LOUD at 2:02)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=XQwwTmzdQssIronically, YouTube recommended me this vide on how copying specific artists helped this one.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=gXjLFZm0P-8

>art style theft
This, among other things, are the reason why western artists fell behind the eastern.
You people could have made the work of Leonardo DaVinci look like crayon drawings but you guys are too busy throwing shitfits about "muh copyright!!1!!" to anything productive.

Don't you remember artists of old outright told you to copy for the sake of learning your own artstyle?

 

[The Ultimate Ramotith]

Don't you remember artists of old outright told you to copy for the sake of learning your own artstyle?

Please tell me more.

 

[femboy fart huffer]

A lot of AI creations are shitty art

I mean a lot of the things you see on civitai create a much larger emotional reaction than most actual pieces of art. Admittedly yes in the same way that 2 girls 1 cup did but what is scat porn if not performance art?

People already solved it many years before you or I even thought about it. I'm posting because I want to.

No they didn't. People have been debating what art is since antiquity. The Greeks had that debate. The Romans had that debate. They had that debate through the middle ages and renaissance. They had it during the industrial revolution. And now we're having it here. You are not going to answer a question that is millenia old. Thinking you can 'solve' something that is entirely subjective is just retarded. Art means what it means to you. That does not mean your personal definition is the defacto concrete definition.

 

[Waifuwars]

This, among other things, are the reason why western artists fell behind the eastern.

Unfortunately Eastern artists sperg out about AI as well. It's just harder to see since it's relegated to their own bubbles and social media sites. The Koreans tried pushing for more regulation, same with the Japanese. The Chinese artists also look down on AI use (e.g. laughing at a gacha that failed to get traction because they disclosed they used AI for the assets and then tried turning around and hiring artists). They all make money from commissions so it's pretty predictable that they'd hate a tool that competes with their work.

 

[Bitey Kong]

AI art is going to be the Ikea furniture of the art world. Some people are going to want a beautifully handcrafted mahogany table that will last for generations. Many, many more people are going to want a cheap piece of plywood on 4 legs to put their Miller Light and leftover Domino's Pizza. The sooner artist's come to terms with this the better. There's no putting the genie back in the bottle, the time to get mad about automation has passed.

 

[Nigger Respecter]

AI art is going to be the Ikea furniture of the art world. Some people are going to want a beautifully handcrafted mahogany table that will last for generations. Many, many more people are going to want a cheap piece of plywood on 4 legs to put their Miller Light and leftover Domino's Pizza. The sooner artist's come to terms with this the better. There's no putting the genie back in the bottle, the time to get mad about automation has passed.

Yeah even before AI there were plenty of companies who would rather just make their logo using some shitty clipart the printer has available than hire a graphic designer, or just have their nephew who "knows how to use a computer" to whip something up. And before computers people would just paint their own signs rather than hire a professional. The cheap quick option will always be preferred by X percentage of the population, and Y percentage will see the value in investing in someone who can actually do it professionally.

There's a small restaurant near me that does literally everything in ChatGPT--their logo, the mural on the wall outside, the menus, their social media posts, etc. Before AI, these people still wouldn't have hired a professional, they would have done it themselves anyway. Their menus would have been made in Word/Google Docs, their logo would have been found by taking a clipart logo from Google Image Search, and so on

 

[Runch]

Yeah even before AI there were plenty of companies who would rather just make their logo using some shitty clipart the printer has available than hire a graphic designer, or just have their nephew who "knows how to use a computer" to whip something up.

Or people who are like "I want to get a tattoo" and rather than thinking about what they want and why, they just go to the tattoo place and point at the first semi-cool looking thing they see in the catalogue.

 

[AmpleApricots]

You also always need to consider that today is the worst this technology will ever be. It's only going to get better.

That's why I also always say that the current AI development hasn't peaked as it's still simply too early to tell. A few years ago there was GPT4 which was the most powerful model in the world, only capable of being run on six figure infrastructure which by all accounts, was very complicated. Now GPT4 is outdated, soundly beaten in performance, ability and knowledge by models you can run on higher end PCs at home.

There's also still a lot of stuff in the pipeline that wasn't even attempted yet as there's simply not enough brainpower and time working on. Even if there would be no new image models or LLMs coming out starting today, the current stuff we already have has still a ton of room for optimization and improvement we barely had a chance even touching on.

It's actually quite a problem in a way, there's always a new LLM around the corner and they all act and react to instructions a bit differently. Adapting them to workflows and getting the most out of them is difficult as you barely get a chance to "get used" to a model before the next, better one is out. Kinda reminds me of being a PC owner in the 90s.

 

[femboy fart huffer]

There's also still a lot of stuff in the pipeline that wasn't even attempted yet as there's simply not enough brainpower and time working on. Even if there would be no new image models or LLMs coming out starting today, the current stuff we already have has still a ton of room for optimization and improvement we barely had a chance even touching on.

The only thing I want is nanobanana pro level quality but with the ability to use loras and that I can run locally. I don't really need much better than that.

 

[SoleniyKraut]

No they didn't. People have been debating what art is since antiquity. The Greeks had that debate. The Romans had that debate. They had that debate through the middle ages and renaissance. They had it during the industrial revolution. And now we're having it here. You are not going to answer a question that is millenia old. Thinking you can 'solve' something that is entirely subjective is just retarded. Art means what it means to you. That does not mean your personal definition is the defacto concrete definition.

I could reply in detail, because it seems like there's a section of literature you're missing, but I'm disregarding this because you're the guy who wrote this thread. Freaky-ass nigga lecturing me about philosophy.

 

[AmpleApricots]

A lot of AI art is shitty because it's very easy to generate AI pictures so everyone can do it, even if most don't do it well. I personally would never take issue with people declaring 95-98% AI art as crap as that's probably a fair asssessment. What bothers me is people not wanting other people to have the ability to do AI art if they want. That's the thing I take issue with. It's just another form of thought policing and it usually comes from the same group of the usual suspects who try to thought police us all for years already.

I also maintain that good AI art is not recognizable as such and that there's probably a lot of stuff out there that's not recognized as AI art.

 

[The Ultimate Ramotith]

I cross-pos this from the Retro Gaming thread.

ROMhack.ing disabled downloads for all machine translated content.

Ver archivo adjunto 9154571
Ver archivo adjunto 9154572

 

[Cognitive Decline]

So they're upset about """"AI"""" automated translations now?

I've been wondering if we'd get to the point where bluesky dorks berate their mothers for watching The Weather Channel, which uses machine learning behind the scenes to predict the next temperature. It's looking more and more likely now.

 

[sex haver]

That's incredibly fucking stupid.

Reduce accessibility to games in other languages because... why? The one or two people on your website that know both Japanese and English get an ego boost and get to feel cool about being a translator?

I would love to know where this "feedback" came from. Who gave it? Did the actual users and people playing the translated games vote to remove their own access to a version they can read?