Joaquin Phoenix as the Joker - Won an Oscar

What will the combined score of shootings blamed on "Joker" be after opening weekend?

  • 0

    Votos: 13 11.7%

  • 1-10

    Votos: 23 20.7%

  • 11-20

    Votos: 3 2.7%

  • 21-39

    Votos: 5 4.5%

  • 40+

    Votos: 67 60.4%
  • Total de votantes
    111
  • Encuesta cerrada .
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Wazzupnerds dijo:
As a MCU fan I very much disagree with that idea. Lot of fans respect the past.
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Sorry, then. Maybe I've been hanging around way too many of the bad Disney/Marvel fans on Tumblr that waste their times shipping gay pairings and throwing venomous statements about how only the MCU does superheroes right.

To get back to the movie, I liked how there were so many allusions to Batman lore at large. I spotted The Killing Joke, The Dark Knight Returns and Batman 1989 as inspirations for certain plot points.

One thing I find that was completely blown out of the water was the violence, the scenes out of context are no more terrifying than your average gore feast you find in an R-rated horror film.
 
Truthboi dijo:
I don’t think Joker really won with that as his goal was to corrupt the people and show them how society to go downhill.
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[Talking about Dark Knight.]

He didn't win, but he didn't really lose either. He didn't get the "good people" to act like the "bad people" and blow each other up, and in fact the "bad people" rose to the occasion too.

He didn't lose his shit about it or melt down, though, he was just like "fuck it I'll do it myself."
 
AnOminous dijo:
[Talking about Dark Knight.]

He didn't win, but he didn't really lose either. He didn't get the "good people" to act like the "bad people" and blow each other up, and in fact the "bad people" rose to the occasion too.

He didn't lose his shit about it or melt down, though, he was just like "fuck it I'll do it myself."
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Yes but he succeeded in corrupting Harvey Dent, the shining force of good in the city. Even if the people of Gotham didn't do what he wanted, he still managed to turn Gotham's White Knight.

What makes the ending of The Dark Knight so ingenious is that the Joker places Batman in a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't scenario. Either the truth comes out about Harvey and they lose their faith in what's good about Gotham (which is what happens in Rises), or Batman and Gordon lie about it so they can keep Harvey's legacy alive despite the evil deeds he had committed.

Even though the ferry plan failed and the truth about Harvey wouldn't come out until years later, the Joker still forced Batman to go against his own morals. So I'd say it was more of a half-victory.
 
The fact we're talking about whether he won or not it's a good statement of the movie. With Nolan Joker, the consequences of his actions were permanent. Harvey and Rachel were making a change to the point Wayne even considered he didn't have to be Batman anymore. Joker destroyed that. Yet, he couldn't destroy the hope that Harvey inspired on them.

In IW, Thanos won the battle, but he lost the war. He was murdered and everybody came back. And he was defeated by Time Travel, which is basically Deus ex Machina.

I'm not saying DC is better than Marvel (to me, it is, but to each their own), just that the MCU taking over the market has given people very odd expectations of what to expect from a comic book movie. Everyone is quite defined to be either good or bad. Take Magneto from X-2: he never stops being a villain even though he helps the x-men to save Xavier back. Once he's safe, he tries to kill every non-mutant. And yet, he's relatable. You don't see that with new Magneto who actually murders millions of people and they just shrug it off. And then, Superman kills one villain and everybody loses their minds.
 
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Still can't believe they filmed that scene where, while on the talk show, Joker looks right into the camera and says “Google 'USS Liberty incident'”.
 
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