Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[CasketBase]

Note the demand for Russia to hand over children to the Ukrainian authorities.

Well they've been out of sacrifices to Moloch ever since Epstein had to be yeeted.
Like, sorry, I realize that most of Russia is not the safest and nicest place to live in (though also far, far from the worst) but those obsessive demands to hand over thousands of white chilren (possibly war orphans who were evacuated from a war zone) issued by the notoriously degenerate American political elite sound creepy as fuck.
What are the mutts gonna do with them all? Stick them in scum-infested rapefugee shelters in shitholes like France or Germany? Ship them to the Isles for the nonces to play with and the Pakis to use in averting their national health crisis if you know what I mean?
Yeah I know this all is just a "think of the children" publicity stunt by the current Orange Wife. But it does come off as incredibly cynical, as if the US was treating white children like one would a resource.

Anyway that's the best I got for why Odessa hasn't been leveled yet.

It is the most Jewish city in Ukraine, maybe tied with Uman'.

 

[namelesstacotruck]

When one side has to have it in writing that rocket attacks on 2 major cities are not allowed you got a problem.

Why would it be in Russias interest to stop now?

 

[Bunkerhousing]

Close shave for this guy. Minus 2 swines.
-1324139469740668720.mp4

May God embrace them.

 

[jje100010001]

I'll throw in my two cents.
Poutine ain't eager to stop it because of the reasons you've mentioned, AND ALSO due to the fact that Russia's gonna have a big socio-economic crisis thing as soon as the war's over.
A couple hundred thousand Slavs with extensive military experience will be coming home, with all that entails. Economy's gonna do weird things (it's not "war economy" at the moment, but definitely a "special military operation economy" with a lot of factories (some of which provide whole towns with jobs) getting a lot of work and all that. People will begin to turn their attention inward, at internal issues, like certain minorities getting closer and closer to US hood nigger levels of feral recently, or certain new diasporas moving in (jeets, pakis, both relatively few in number still, but they're, well, pakis and jeets, you know what to expect).

IMO- assuming that the war ends without any further escalation between Russia and NATO (ignoring territorial change or whether or not Ukraine remains a geopolitical question):

- Those with military experience can either be eased back into civilian society, or offered the opportunity to join Wagner 2.0 for third world adventures. Likewise, it might be a good opportunity to cycle new blood and know-how into the military officer class with promotions.
- Economic transition definitely needs to be managed, but this can offer some benefits with newly trained human capital that could help to further improve other areas of the economy, i.e. precision tooling and manufacturing, which Russia is still partially dependent on Europe for, as well as finally getting its domestic chip industry going (at least for military hardware).
- It's also an opportunity to redirect production towards national programs like Khrushchyovka replacement, infrastructure modernization, and investment in Arctic trade routes/mining.
- The domestic refocus can be partially alleviated through some highly symbolic anti-corruption drives.
- Stanistani Minorities and jeets are an ongoing issue, but that largely lies with the fact that Putin is a neoliberal at heart, and that Minsk 1 and 2 were ultimately good-faith agreements with the hope of being accepted back into European good favor (failed). The transition to the next leader will be extremely important.

Some days I think the biggest thing the West can do to hurt Russia at this point is to just fold on Ukraine like they folded on Afganistan: "we're out, fuck this, go any further and it's DEFCON, good luck integrating what remains of Ukraine LOL"

Geopolitically speaking- if the West folds on Ukraine, the goal is to rearrange the chessboard as cheaply as possible while eliminating the geopolitical threat:
- The ex-military issue gets solved as these couple hundred thousand soldiers (and probably many more) will be needed to hunt down Azov and support the de-Banderization of Ukrainian society, support Transnitria, and occupy Odessa.
- Parts of Ukraine will undergo referendums (pushed as acts of self-determination) on whether to be spun off into DPR-style autonomous republics, for eventual long-term ascension into Russia of the most crucial regions.
- The remaining Ukranian territory will be reformed into a buffer state protectorate, framed in the UN as a demilitarized zone with a neutrality framework.
- Once de-Banderized (with some degree of amnesty), the remaining Ukrainian army will be devolved into local security forces.
- The local elites (mayors, police, administrators) will be bought off and existing power structures co-opted to ensure continuity of services and local legitimacy.
- Reconstruction will be limited to the bare essentials as an act of triaging resources, and rewarding cooperative regions.
- Relatively cheap promises like pension and public salary guarantees, and fuel/utility subsidies will be used to reduce public resistance in lieu of reconstruction.
- Emigration from Ukraine will be encouraged to filter out potentially problematic populations and reduce social spending.
- Economic integration like Belarus will be encouraged especially during reconstruction, with the eventual goal of cooperation and security pacts.
- Crucial economic sectors (i.e. ports, agriculture) will be taken over, with the goal of reopening the Black Sea and having Ukrainian exports pay for the reconstruction.
- Likewise, some Ukrainian oligarchs can be allowed to retain control if they announce their support for Russia and pledge their share.
- Reconciliation will be emphasized, with shared cultural events and the return of the 'Little Brother' national narrative and minority/language rights.
- Diplomatic promises will be made to not go further into Europe, with the goal of normalization/diplomatic reset (rainbows, but still).
- Limited UN/NGO access will be dangled in exchange for lifting sanctions.
- Assume the 1/2 trillion in frozen assets is gone for good, but keep it as a poison pill for Euro market legitimacy.

None of this is pleasant, but none of what the West did to Ukraine leading up to the war was either.

 

[Average Russian Spy]

As a last ditch effort to turn the tide of the war Ukrainian president Vladimir Zelensky has approved the implementation of the Porkchop Protocol.
Ver archivo adjunto 8193619
He and everyone he comes into contact with from now on will undergo Slendermanification.
Ver archivo adjunto 8193621

That image made me laugh pretty hard. Like some mimic alien that tried to disguise as a human but just didn't get the proportions quite right.

 

[Myrtle the Turtle]

Those with military experience can either be eased back into civilian society,

Russia and Ukraine would be wise to invest in AI therapy platforms to help with rehabilitation. Neither country has the psychology resources and therapists to deal with all the men affected by war. You can't substitute jeets for this role either.
Russia should also learn the lessons from the US & Europe have about migration and the cancerous destruction it has on the country's deficit and population.

 

[LordOfZhbagva]

How come euro countries have so many stray cats? I'd assume it has something to do with less cars running them over and their need for pest control yeah?

It's a cultural thing. People just leave food for the "wild" cats (and dogs). The animals don't bother anyone (usually) and are always there for people to play with and pet.

 

[TexWiller]

How come euro countries have so many stray cats? I'd assume it has something to do with less cars running them over and their need for pest control yeah?

cats are very prolific and very good at survival. never seen stray cats or dogs here though. plenty of deer, fox and even some bear, wolves and lynx.

The animals don't bother anyone

stray dogs form packs and they can be a real problem. pedestrian and cyclists get attacked. unfortunately too many idiots and idiotesses owning really big and dangerous dogs and every now and then a kid or child gets killed.

I want some of whatever they're smoking in Washington.

as i dont smoke, id settle for something to snort
the europeans must be in panic mode. they were practically already spending the russian money.
remains to be seen if the "peace plan" leaked is legit. if it is, it at least clarifies who calls the shots, and the euroidiots are told to sit down and shut up.

would be wise to invest in AI therapy platforms

i bet many would rather prefer to have a gun with one round in the mag and use it on themselves.

well well, who could have seen this coming

 

[demicolon]

as i dont smoke, id settle for something to snort

I like you.

 

[Procopius]

This is supposedly that US peace plan. I can't see it being acceptable to anyone else but the US. How will, say, clause 11 go down with Polish farmers? And clause 14 seems to be a continuation of the grift, but with the US in the place of Ukraine, and Russia playing the part of the US and Europe.

Spoiler: Full text

1. Ukraine's sovereignty will be confirmed

2. A full and comprehensive non-aggression agreement will be concluded between Russia, Ukraine, and Europe. All ambiguities of the last 30 years will be considered resolved

3. It is expected that Russia will not invade neighboring countries, and NATO will not expand further

4. A dialogue will be held between Russia and NATO mediated by the USA to resolve all security issues and create conditions for de-escalation, to ensure global security and increase opportunities for cooperation and future economic development

5. Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees

6. The size of the Ukrainian Armed Forces will be limited to 600,000 people

7. Ukraine agrees to enshrine in its constitution that it will not join NATO, and NATO agrees to include in its charters a provision that Ukraine will not be admitted in the future

8. NATO agrees not to deploy troops in Ukraine

9. European fighters will be deployed in Poland

10. US guarantee:

The US will receive compensation for the guarantee

If Ukraine invades Russia, it will lose the guarantee

If Russia invades Ukraine, in addition to a decisive coordinated military response, all global sanctions will be reinstated, recognition of new territory and all other benefits of this deal will be canceled

If Ukraine launches a missile at Moscow or Saint Petersburg without reason, the security guarantee will be considered invalid

11. Ukraine has the right to EU membership and will receive short-term preferential access to the European market while this issue is being considered

12. A powerful global package of measures for Ukraine's recovery, including but not limited to:

a. Creation of the Ukraine Development Fund to invest in rapidly growing sectors, including technology, data centers, and artificial intelligence

b. The US will cooperate with Ukraine for joint restoration, development, modernization, and operation of Ukraine's gas infrastructure, including pipelines and storage

c. Joint efforts to restore territories affected by the war for recovery, reconstruction, and modernization of cities and residential areas

d. Infrastructure development

e. Mining of minerals and natural resources

f. The World Bank will develop a special financing package to accelerate these efforts

13. Russia will be reintegrated into the global economy:

a. Sanctions removal will be discussed and agreed upon gradually and individually

b. The US will conclude a long-term economic cooperation agreement aimed at mutual development in energy, natural resources, infrastructure, artificial intelligence, data centers, rare earth metal mining projects in the Arctic, and other mutually beneficial corporate opportunities

c. Russia will be invited to return to the G8

14. Frozen funds will be used as follows:

$100 billion of frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led efforts to restore and invest in Ukraine. The US will receive 50% of the profits from this enterprise. Europe will add $100 billion to increase the volume of investments available for Ukraine's recovery. Frozen European funds will be unfrozen. The remaining frozen Russian funds will be invested in a separate US-Russian investment instrument that will implement joint projects in certain areas. This fund will aim to strengthen relations and increase common interests to create a strong motivation not to return to conflict

15. A joint US-Russian security working group will be created to facilitate and ensure the implementation of all provisions of this agreement

16. Russia will legally enshrine a policy of non-aggression towards Europe and Ukraine

17. The US and Russia will agree to extend the treaties on nuclear non-proliferation and control, including the New START Treaty

18. Ukraine agrees to be a nuclear-free state in accordance with the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty

19. The Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant will be operated under the supervision of the IAEA, and the electricity produced will be distributed equally between Russia and Ukraine - 50:50

20. Both countries commit to implementing educational programs in schools and society aimed at understanding and tolerance of different cultures and eliminating racism and prejudice:

a. Ukraine will adopt EU rules on religious tolerance and protection of linguistic minorities

b. Both countries will agree to abolish all discriminatory measures and guarantee the rights of Ukrainian and Russian media and education

c. All Nazi ideology and activities must be rejected and banned

21. Territories:

a. Crimea, Luhansk, and Donetsk will be recognized de facto as Russian, including by the US

b. Kherson and Zaporizhzhia will be frozen along the line of contact, which will mean de facto recognition along the line of contact

c. Russia renounces other agreed territories (likely referring to the parts of Kharkiv, Sumy, and Dnipropetrovsk regions captured by Russia - Editor), which it controls outside the five regions

d. Ukrainian forces will withdraw from the part of Donetsk region they currently control, and this withdrawal zone will be considered a neutral demilitarized buffer zone, internationally recognized as territory belonging to the Russian Federation. Russian forces will not enter this demilitarized zone

22. After agreeing on future territorial arrangements, both Russia and Ukraine commit not to change these arrangements by force. Any security guarantees will not apply in case of violation of this commitment

23. Russia will not obstruct Ukraine's use of the Dnipro River for commercial activities, and agreements will be reached on free transportation of grain through the Black Sea

24. A humanitarian committee will be established to resolve outstanding issues:

a. All remaining prisoners and bodies will be exchanged on a "all for all" basis

b. All civilian detainees and hostages will be returned, including children

c. A family reunification program will be implemented

d. Measures will be taken to alleviate the suffering of conflict victims

25. Ukraine will hold elections within 100 days

26. All parties involved in this conflict will receive full amnesty for actions during the war and agree not to make claims or consider complaints in the future.

27. This agreement will be legally binding. Its implementation will be monitored and guaranteed by the Peace Council, headed by President Trump. Sanctions will be imposed for violations

28. Once all parties agree to this memorandum, a ceasefire will take effect immediately after both sides withdraw to agreed points to begin implementing the agreement

Does clause 27 come with a special title of Ruler of The World? Maybe someone can find a golden throne for Trump to sit on. I hear there's one knocking around in Zelensky's office.

 

[TexWiller]

This is supposedly that US peace plan

i wonder how the can call the non aggression pact? maybe minsk 3?

i think that with a few changes here and there the plan could be sort of acceptable for Russia. the EU accession for ukraine for instance is probably a nogo because the mad witch is trying to transform EU in a military alliance similar to NATO without USA and this is done openly. on the other side, i see strong opposition to ukr entering the EU and if it happened it would probably collapse it. so they definitely should do it.

seems that Micron, Schmerz and Scammer see their chances to pocket the russian money and keep travelling to kiev to collect cash and snowhite fade in the distance.

 

[Meh123]

imagine if someone invented an engine that runs using a quarter of the fuel a conventional engine uses, but it delivers power completely randomly, including when the car is parked.

Bad analogy. I'd rather treat it as a rain collector barrel: completely optional, supplemental. Yes, it is either there or not. You shouldn't expect it to be poured back into the water system. Yes, tap water is more reliable, but that's beside the point.

im not a luddite or someone that is opposed to "renewables" because of religion. im someone who has lived at a time when insanity was considered a disease and madmen were kept in lunatic asylums, not running the energy policies of entire nations.

do you think grid operators will accept to run grids that people use only when there is no sun or wind, some sort of giant UPS? lol.

I'll bite one more time.
I think you usually have good takes on tech, and I definitely didn't call you a luddite. I'm calling you out but because you're arguing against shit no one suggested.

For the record, I and OP before already mentioned that solar farms and solar "generation" to the grid is idiotic, unreliable, not efficient and not environmentally friendly.

That said.
What I suggested is putting a bunch of panels on your roof and feeding it into your own home energy system - ie filling your car every night, heating a boiler full of water - that can, and is being done with a relatively small battery setup. (inb4 "not viable", panels - depending on a bunch of variables - break even in 5-20 years)
This also gives incentives to improve on both battery and panel tech, which China did immensely.

As for a previous gotcha question. Just play around with google maps a bit and you'll find plenty of factories with solars on the roof:

I highly doubt they plan their production around day-night cycles.

This cunt needs to be fucked with a bayonet.
"Just" peace my ass, wtf does that even mean?

And clause 14 seems to be a continuation of the grift, but with the US in the place of Ukraine

Gotta love how the US, after sparking a proxy war pose as "the peace negotiator" between EU and ruZZia and demands that the restoration be paid by russia and the EU while also demanding a 50% cut from profits.
With allies like this, who needs enemies?

 

[TexWiller]

Bad analogy. I'd rather treat it as a rain collector barrel: completely optional, supplemental.

problem is that electricity is not water. storage is incredibly expensive and unpractical so it usually needs to be produced following the demand, and the following must be very accurate (again ask the spaniards)
so lets imagine everyone puts solar on their roof (most people in the world dont have roofs btw) and dont use any grid power.

then there is fog for one month straight, like it happens here, so after everyone's battery is discharged, everyone starts demanding electricity from the grid.
what do you think would happen, and how much do you think that energy would cost? it is not a coincidence that the more wind and solar is in a grid, the more electricity costs.

for solar/wind to become the main or sole source of power, grids would have to be completely redesigned and rebuilt, and probably the same should be done for residential and industries.
is this worth the cost and hassle, when the only reason behind this is the death cult called environmentalism?

funny story about spain. a relative there works in a large water treatment plant; as byproduct they make tons of methane so they have generators that produce large amounts of electricity they sell to the grid.
during the "apagon" they could have injected in the grid a lot of energy. but they were unable to because their generators could not sync to the grid (that was down);
and that is valid for most solar and wind plants that need to sync to the grid. add to that the disappearance of rotating generation.

bottom line, any grid that relies on large solar and wind will inevitably have to introduce variable rates to control demand (and this is already happening btw) and will inevitably have to control whether you can wash your socks now, or you need to wait to next week. many smart meters already have the facilities to disconnect users.

and this is what passes for advanced civilization? lol. and i thought the difference between monkeys and humans was that humans could at least partially control nature and certainly control energy.

im glad you are in favour of nuclear. i am too and it drives me crazy that this amazing source of energy is not in widespread use.
i live nearby a nuke that has been recently decommissioned. reason for the decommissioning were the new, absurd requirements imposed after fukushima (switzerland is famously exposed to tsunamis of course), on top of the requirements to accomodate cheap solar and wind from germany when they had surpus of it;
this introduced such costs and hassle that the operator said fuck it, im closing it down, it is long since paid for anyway.

i will close it here, my friend, else the autistic sperging police will soon knock at my door

 

[LordOfZhbagva]

what do you think would happen, and how much do you think that energy would cost? it is not a coincidence that the more wind and solar is in a grid, the more electricity costs.

This isn't necessarily the case. Excess energy can be sold abroad and there are countries with extensive wind and solar networks which have relatively cheap energy prices (like, for example, Finland, which makes 18% of its energy from wind and , with prices standing at 0.18USD/kWh, Morroco, at 15% wind, 5% solar and 0.12$/kWh, Croatia at 14% and 0.17$/kWh, Lebanon at 31% solar and 0.14$/kWh, Hungary at 20% solar and 0.11$/kWH).
I do agree that such energy does tends to be used as a crutch instead of properly developing energy infrastructure, especially in countries which for whatever reason aren't capable of developing them properly, but one doesn't mandate the other. And (potentially more importantly,) there are pretty promising projects from China in the form of large scale Iodine Bromine water batteries, which are capable of retaining a lot of energy. The researchers describe them as potentially capable of "grid scale energy storage".

is this worth the cost and hassle, when the only reason behind this is the death cult called environmentalism?

A man has a duty to maintain his planet.

 

[01169]

I can't see it being acceptable to anyone else but the US.

I love how there are some truly insane passages but all I hear in the media is boo fucking hoo they want Ukraine to cede the Donbas.

This really feels like a final straw that Trump is offering before he fucks off to deal with Venezuela and the Taiwan situation. Maybe Kellogg got told as much and that's why he's throwing in the towel to not be involved anymore when everything crashes down.

 

[Susanna]

These terms are probably acceptable to the Kremlin, Putin has made a habit of being a huge pushover, but it's not a problem because Ukraine won't implement it. Zelensky either signs, in which case he is promptly shot by his nazis and the war continues under an overt junta, or he tries to be clever and negotiates to edit the treaty to the effect of "withdraw to agreed positions and implement ceasefire for a month to hold elections, then the first act of the new president will be to sign the treaty" while he flees the country, which means the very same junta ends up in charge anyway but at least he buys himself a month before some azovite on vacation guns him down on the streets of Gustavia.

 

[HOMO FOR LIFE RETURNS]

At least this peace plan, which is incredibly pro-US and clearly a fuck you to EU, gives excuse for trump to back out of future and present support if EU rejects it.

 

[Susanna]

if EU rejects it.

They already have.
They'll reject any peace treaty that doesn't begin with "Russia shall immediately and unconditionally surrender".

 

[HOMO FOR LIFE RETURNS]

They already have.
They'll reject any peace treaty that doesn't begin with "Russia shall immediately and unconditionally surrender".

Well, they can right Russia on their own then.

Who cares.

 

[soulgains]

Russia and Ukraine would be wise to invest in AI therapy platforms to help with rehabilitation. Neither country has the psychology resources and therapists to deal with all the men affected by war. You can't substitute jeets for this role either.
Russia should also learn the lessons from the US & Europe have about migration and the cancerous destruction it has on the country's deficit and population.

AI therapy sounds like a terrible idea. In 30 years we'd see some mindfuck foreign film about a veteran who loses touch with reality after falling in love with his AI therapist.