What are KF's thoughts on Gnostics?

[ToroidalBoat]

[mental gymnastics]

But why would the true God of Gnostic beliefs create a demiurge in the first place if He knew he would create that realm of suffering?

 

[StutterBox]

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you niggas were to preoccupied with gnostic gay shit to realize the true Christ offers you this too. Its called Theosis. its the fucking point of Christianity

 

[Whatevermancer]

But why would the true God of Gnostic beliefs create a demiurge in the first place if He knew he would create that realm of suffering?

Is true god of gnostics described as all-loving?

 

[Caligura]

Cool aesthetic, but its basically a meme LARP religion these days.

 

[█████████]

I'm not an expert on religion, so I'm not sure how valid my opinion is on the topic. But in terms of what I understand about the internet modern view of Gnosticism, I'd say that it makes more sense to me than a lot of the predominant mainstream organized religions. It has never made sense to me why a supposedly loving God would allow so much terrible shit to happen. It always makes me disgusted when I see Christians say things like, "God works in mysterious ways and it was God's plan for that young girl to be raped so she could give birth". Like what the fuck?

It makes way more sense viewing the Bible in a Gnostic context and viewing Yahweh as the Demiurge. Theorizing that the world has an imperfect creator and therefore creation is imperfect as a result makes way more sense to me than "God wanted us to have free will so he allowed the world to be fucked up". It is also very possible we live in a simulation because we ourselves get closer and closer to simulating real-life as technology advances.

I've also always been fascinated by those stories about young children claiming to be able to recount past lives or saying things offhandedly to their parents like, "My other mommy was better". I'm sure a lot of these stories are grifters being coached by their parents though. But I find it interesting how a lot of the same patterns and ideas developed in different parts of the world in different religions. I think it is more likely that each big religion has nuggets of truth to them, but none of them are the "One True Religion".

Many NDEs also have the same themes, with things like "light at the end of the tunnel" and "life reviews". I find the online Gnostic theory that the archons are trying to "trick" you into accepting reincarnation by pretending to be loved ones or religious figures very interesting. Especially if you want to get real schizo and tie it into the "machine elf"/"alien" shit people report all seeing on psychadelics.

 

[23iwakura23]

Is true god of gnostics described as all-loving?

you guys are stumbling on the logical error of gnosticism... infinite regress.

If the God of the gnostics could have created a better world, is he not also a demiurge? An imperfect creator? Is there not then possibly a better god above him? but he too saw to a world with inferior god. Could also there not be a god above that one? And another. And another...

The ancient pagans imagined an infinite past. We called them retards.

The modern atheists claim an infinite causal chain. We call them retards.

The gnostics claim an infinite chain of better and better gods. We call them retards.

The buck stops at divinity, though. It's the bookend. There's one necessary first cause. It bookends the past, starts causality, and is the greatest of all things. That is what all men call God.

Reality is simply bookended by God by logical necessity. A world without him is simply retarded. It's just another chase into an actual infinity, which is axiomatically meaningless.

 

[Whatevermancer]

you guys are stumbling on the logical error of gnosticism... infinite regress.

If the God of the gnostics could have created a better world, is he not also a demiurge? An imperfect creator? Is there not then possibly a better god above him? but he too saw to a world with inferior god. Could also there not be a god above that one? And another. And another...

The ancient pagans imagined an infinite past. We called them retards.

The modern atheists claim an infinite causal chain. We call them retards.

The gnostics claim an infinite chain of better and better gods. We call them retards.

The buck stops at divinity, though. It's the bookend. There's one necessary first cause. It bookends the past, starts causality, and is the greatest of all things. That is what all men call God.

Reality is simply bookended by God by logical necessity. A world without him is simply retarded. It's just another chase into an actual infinity, which is axiomatically meaningless.

"Everything has to have a cause, except for this one thing that I had to invent as a cop-out" - unmoved mover in a nutshell.
Secondly, even if the unmoved mover is real, where's the evidence that it is Jehovah?

 

[StolenWindows]

The Holy Spirit is FEMALE (Sophia). That's Chokhmah (Wisdom) (see Proverbs 8 ). Also, could a Gnostic who believes in Yeshua Hamaschiach but practices orgies in their church to own the demiurge go to heaven by a Orthodox POV?

 

[█████████]

The Holy Spirit is FEMALE (Sophia). That's Chokhmah (Wisdom) (see Proverbs 8 ). Also, could a Gnostic who believes in Yeshua Hamaschiach but practices orgies in their church to own the demiurge go to heaven by a Orthodox POV?

I'm new to Gnosticism, but I've interpreted it to be against the material world and hedonism, so I don't think an anti-materialist would be into orgies. Like if the Demiurge created our fucked-up imperfect materialist world, then how would you be owning the Demiurge by engaging in hedonism?

 

[Neverender]

Gnosticism gets one thing right: the world has been warped into a maze of evil by malefactors beyond human power. It doesn't matter whether you call the dragon Yaldabaoth or Lucifer. This world IS cruel, IS wicked and IS full of things meant to lead you away from Truth.

 

[Otis Mallebrok]

I like them with spinach and chantarelles in a cream sauce.

 

[StolenWindows]

I'm new to Gnosticism, but I've interpreted it to be against the material world and hedonism, so I don't think an anti-materialist would be into orgies. Like if the Demiurge created our fucked-up imperfect materialist world, then how would you be owning the Demiurge by engaging in hedonism?

WHat the fuck does this symbol even mean?

 

[█████████]

WHat the fuck does this symbol even mean?
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I'm not an expert on religion, but I know that symbol is linked to LaVeyan Satanism. Believing that the world is imperfect doesn't necessarily mean we should embrace immorality and hedonism, which Satanists do embrace it. If there is links to Gnosticism with Satanism or that symbol, then please tell me, because like I said, this is something I only very recently started to learn about.

 

[VM_]

I'm new to Gnosticism, but I've interpreted it to be against the material world and hedonism, so I don't think an anti-materialist would be into orgies. Like if the Demiurge created our fucked-up imperfect materialist world, then how would you be owning the Demiurge by engaging in hedonism?

"The Ophites (from the Greek word ophis, “serpent”) reinterpreted the mythological theme of the Fall of Man in Genesis. According to the Ophite view, the serpent of the Garden of Eden wanted Adam and Eve, the first man and woman, to eat from the tree of knowledge (gnosis) so that they would know their true identities and “be like God” (Genesis 3:5). The serpent, thus, is interpreted as a messenger of the spiritual god, and the one who wanted to prevent Adam and Eve from eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge is viewed as the Demiurge. In their rejection of the God of the Old Testament, who gave the Ten Commandments, the Ophites flaunted their sexual freedom from the law and conventionality by extreme sexual license, a trait common to other Gnostic groups as well.

The Phibionites in Alexandria were a Gnostic sect described by St. Epiphanius of Salamis. They gathered at banquets that became ecstatic orgies. Married couples changed partners for dramatic sexual performances. Sperm and menstrual blood were gathered and offered as a gift to God before being consumed as the Body and Blood of Christ. By such erotic communions they sought to re-gather the elements of the world-soul (psyche) from the material forms into which it had been dispersed through a cosmic tragedy at the beginning of time. The re-gathering amounted to salvation, for all things would be gathered up into the one glorious body of Christ. "

"They hold meetings in cellars and secret places, the sexes mingling freely. When (qui) candles have been lighted, in the sight of all, light women with bare buttocks (it is said) offer themselves to a certain one lying behind them. Directly the candles are extinguished, they all cry out together ‘Chaos!’ and each one lies with her who first comes to hand. Now if it so happens that a woman has there been gotten with child, as soon as the offspring is delivered, it is brought back to the same place. A great fire is lit, and the child is thrown from hand to hand through the flames by those sitting around the fire until it is dead. It is then reduced to ashes; from the ashes bread is made, of which a morsel is given to each as a sacrament. Once that has been eaten, it is very rarely that one is brought back to his senses from that heresy” (Guibert of Nogent on the Cathars in 1114. As cited by Walter L. Wakefield and Austin P. Evans, Heresies of the High Middle Ages, p. 103)."

and the more modern Jewish Gnostic sect of the Frankist Sabbateans

"Frank addressed his followers: “I came not to elevate your spirits, but to humiliate you to the bottom of the abyss, where you can get no lower, and where no man can rise from by his own forces, but only God can pull him with his mighty hand from the depth.” By “abyss” he meant particularly sexual rituals that included sacred orgies with just a touch of incest. The sexual adventures reached the ears of the senior rabbis of Poland, after the Frankists held a rough sexual ceremony described by David Kahana in his “Book of Darkness”: on the 26th day of the month of Shvat in 1756, on a market day in the town of Lanzkron, Podolia, the people of the Frank sect gathered in the morning in an inn of one of their own, closed all the windows in secrecy, and took the rabbi’s wife, a beautiful and promiscuous woman, sat her down naked in a palanquin, placed a Torah crown upon her head and danced around her, playing instruments, falling on her and kissing her, while calling her “mezuzah”."

Aleister Crowley, in his neo-gnostic Thelema cult, reintroduces the offering of sperm and menstrual blood into his Eucharist "cake of light." You could make the case that they were practicing tantric sex, an act that is supposed to help you in the process of achieving gnosis by uniting with the divine feminine through sex (divine feminine = Sophia). The chakras are supposed to represent the planets, the source of these special energies that supposedly influence us, a microcosm in man of the macrocosm of space. Neoplatonists from Alexandria believed that you had to journey through the planets (kabbalistic sephirot/chakras/inner planes) before eventually reaching "the one" - the gnostics kind of flip Plotinus's concept of the one and how to achieve it by switching it to gnosis and their inverted practices, which he famously attacked them for. The Kabbalistic tree of life is a reinterpretation of this and the idea of cosmic repair or world repair (tikun olun), the act of regaining the fallen sparks that fell from the divine "one," essentially perfecting yourself, fixing what Abrahamists call the fall, all of which sounds awfully similar to the Phibionite practice of re-gathering elements of the world soul.

Some infographs and artwork

 

[mindlessobserver]

Modern gnosticism is basically church of Satan tier mystic LARP. Bunch of weirdo girls and the men who want too fuck them.

 

[BIG SHOT Autos]

I'm not an expert on religion, so I'm not sure how valid my opinion is on the topic. But in terms of what I understand about the internet modern view of Gnosticism, I'd say that it makes more sense to me than a lot of the predominant mainstream organized religions.

Neither am I, but I was in search for a really long time and dabbled with a lot of things, so I want to offer some thoughts on the matter.

Spoiler: this is super long sorry

Fundamentally, Gnosticism is a way of thinking that is built upon two ideas: 1. salvation is only possible through secret knowledge (hence the name), and 2. material world, flesh, is inherently evil.

There aren't OG Gnostics around anymore, but it doesn't really matter, as this approach is way more common than one may think. It's essentially everywhere, a lot of people are prone to that way of thinking and it manifests (kek) in many ways. A lot of atheists are unironically Gnostic in their philosophy. Witchcraft of various traditional backgrounds is also built on these two ideas. Your average "spiritual but not religious" person is highly likely Gnostic in their nature.

On itself, it raises rather horrible implications that play out on a daily basis... which made me realize that this is in line with our cruel world, not a solution for it its corruption.

1. If some secret knowledge that is only available to you through purely humanly means and vetting through human beings gives you power then it means weaker and meeker people will be defeated jungle laws style. It's essentially spiritual gatekeeping. God reaches out to everyone who wants to know Him, and sure, it will result in tangible physical interactions with people or objects or whatever else too, but all you need is to open your heart and truly seek God. Nothing will stand in the way, apart from Satan, but he's a spiritual force, not a bunch of retards hoarding secrets and expecting you to be "worthy" of them. Speaking of that, I understand how tempting it is to dehumanize others sometimes and think, "how can someone like Hitler be redeemed", but removing Imago Dei from the question of dignity and worth of a human soul leads to... Well, you probably know how leftists are eager to kill everyone they dislike, for example.

It's also a massive breeding ground for the worst sin on the planet: pride. Mere mortal humans think of themselves as of gods. Pride is what leads to murder based on hurt feelings. Pride is why people steal, lie, and do everything for their own personal gain, to the point of sacrificing someone else for that. Do you start seeing what I mean when I say Gnosticism is just playing by the rules of our world and not truly transcending or solving it?

2. "Flesh is evil" is ironically ascribed to Christianity, when in reality it's a heresy, even if a lot of self-proclaimed Christians agree with it. And this, again, comes with more evil implications. Sure, it makes sense to think that maybe our world was created evil, that's what I used to think too at some point. Or that evil is some kind of balancing force (vs corruption and perversion in Christianity; in other words, evil doesn't exist, it's something good that was warped and twisted into horrors sometimes beyond our comprehension). But if that's the case, if material world is inherently evil, then it means that all the horrors are justified. It means that some people may be born evil, so it justifies murder, and may be even taken to an extremes where a child is assumed to be born evil, so it's ok for "greater good" to kill them too. It means cutting off a girl's clit is acceptable, because sex is the most depraved fleshly activity of them all for a lot of people carrying Gnostic-like beliefs. It means beating or straight up torturing people in the name of discipline is fine, it's not like their bodies matter. (Note, this is a common practice in occult groups that are built on these two major Gnostic principles that I have highlighted. It's not a coincidence.)

Furthermore. It always comes with dissociative spiritual practices. It's a natural conclusion stemming from "material = evil; immaterial = good". If the matter is inherently wrong, then we should "free" ourselves from it. That means detaching ourselves or in simpler terms, inducing a whole package of mental disorders. Dissociation, derealization, literal psychosis. This is where Gnostic thought gets a crossover with a huge chunk of pagan and occult practices, including but not limited to using drugs, various meditation techniques, astral projection and such.

It's reflected in trans people, by the way, who relatively often are drawn to the occult too.

It has never made sense to me why a supposedly loving God would allow so much terrible shit to happen. It always makes me disgusted when I see Christians say things like, "God works in mysterious ways and it was God's plan for that young girl to be raped so she could give birth". Like what the fuck?

I didn't go through this specific example that is often brought up, but I will say that I won't change anything about my life, including all the horrors and consequences that I'm still dealing with. I'm far from the only one.

While I used to ask the same question, in restrospect I realize that the wording and the tone are completely off and there's accusatory intention behind it. "God works in mysterious ways" is a technically correct description of what is going on, but it completely lacks any coherent depth.

Also, it may not even be "the plan". It's more likely being caught in the cross fire of this sinful world. There is often a confusion between defining "the plan" between Christians and non-Christians. It's less of a plan in a sense that God is plotting some little evil retarded events (that's what Satan does) and more of God sometimes letting sin happen and then having the ability to use consequences of that sin. It's utterly pointless to ask "how is it going to be used" however, because that requires transcendential ability to know all the future, present, and past from perspectives of every single living human (or even other creatures), all the crossing points between our lives, if not more. What we do have however is endless testimonies of individuals with their own personal journeys where they talk about this. Many of them are ex-cultists too, by the way, and that includes practices that involve Gnostic philosophy. Which are really common, like I said.

I've also always been fascinated by those stories about young children claiming to be able to recount past lives or saying things offhandedly to their parents like, "My other mommy was better". I'm sure a lot of these stories are grifters being coached by their parents though. But I find it interesting how a lot of the same patterns and ideas developed in different parts of the world in different religions. I think it is more likely that each big religion has nuggets of truth to them, but none of them are the "One True Religion".

That goes inline with Christian perspective in a sense that nothing is really new under the sun within spiritual forces. They have developed the same because, essentially, Satan's tricks were, are and always will be the same. At their core, huge chunk of pagan and traditional religions are the same. At first, it impressed me. Now it saddens me.

Also, I didn't know where to put it, but another major trap that all these "knowledge based" belief systems set up is that thirst for knowledge never ends. It's never just one thing. It's trying one thing > getting euphoric from results > results wearing off along with the thing not working anymore > going deeper into another thing > repeat until you're going insane, your life falls apart, or you're reaping consequences of dabbling with (often unknowingly, until it's too fucking late) literal demons.

 

[Fek]

WHat the fuck does this symbol even mean?

Originally? It's an old symbol for brimstone/sulfur. Alchemical symbols get adopted by a lot of groups for this or that reason..though do keep in mind, friends: the symbol itself only carries whatever weight the individual assigns it.

Certain groups are very fond of their symbols and adorn them with distorted meanings which may seem "darker" than otherwise (brimstone, in this case). Other symbols get demonized at a societal level in spite of originally carrying a much "higher" intent (a swastika, for example). Inversion gives the griefers away, as always.

I'd suggest being wary of the pitfalls around assuming definitions of symbols as well, friends. It's a clever bit of suggestion that most never realize they buy right into ("<symbol> is bad..be scared! oOoOoOo!").

 

[Some Badger]

WHat the fuck does this symbol even mean?
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BPD and bad blowjobs, evidently.

 

[Otterly]

It’s Wicca for men.

Possibly the best summary I’ve heard.

 

[StolenWindows]

Plato and the Sethians knew the truth.

A "0 bit reality" is not a formal theory but a speculative or thought-provoking extension of this foundation. It can be interpreted in several ways:

Pre-information existence: In computer science, zero bits represents the lack of any information or data. A "0 bit reality" could be a state of "pure potentiality"—the nothingness before the first "bit" of information is defined by an observer or measurement.
A universe from "nothing": The concept of a mathematical zero can be viewed as the foundation from which all numbers—and therefore all mathematical descriptions of the universe—are derived. This echoes the idea in physics that the universe could emerge from a vacuum, or nothingness.
Beyond binary: While quantum physics uses qubits that can be a superposition of 0 and 1, a "0 bit reality" would be a state even more fundamental than the binary choices we use to define reality. It may represent a level of existence beyond the structure of information as we know it, where everything exists as an undefinable potential.
The nature of reality itself: It can also be seen as an inquiry into the fundamental nature of reality. Is reality "real" even when unobserved, or is it fundamentally tied to the information we derive from it? Some interpretations of quantum physics suggest reality cannot be described without a link to observation.

You have the universe, the multiverse, the megaverse, the gigaverse, the teraverse, the exaverse, the xenoverse, the hyperverse, the omniverse and "the outside".

In Gnostic cosmology, Goddess Sige is the "nothingness" or "void" ("Ain" in Kabbalah). Bythos is the "1" ("Ain Soph" in Kabbalah). The divine spark ("Ain Soph-Aur") is what created Pleroma/the heavens, including the aeons and emanations. Sophia's fall is what created this universe.

Christianity is paganism. It's based off Canaanite religion. "Elohim" is always plural and means "sons of El". Yahweh isn't mentioned until Exodus 6:3 and it actually said EL created the heavens and the Earth. The Bible may be useful for understanding some knowledge, but I tend toward theosophy.