What are KF's thoughts on Gnostics?

[Some Badger]

It's the nerdy boy's way of being "spiritual but not religious", they'll show their fake modesty off with platitudes but they'll still call you a soulless android at the drop of the hat for not being as self-pitying as them. Pretty much all of the core problems with normal religious people and none of the upsides. You're not a free thinker for reading intentionally useless trivia books.

I came across a podcast on Youtube between a self-professed Gnostic and this chick of nondescript pagan affiliation who called herself a perennialist (maybe pantheist is too vague and wicca is too embarassing) and the former was probably the most smug, self-assured sounding cunt this side of a postgrad humanities department.

What's ironic about it all is that the historic Gnostics probably were very religious in both their worldly outlook and daily practrice, whereas the neo-gnostics are progressives who don't even understand their own beliefs because said beliefs are fragmentary and mostly lost to time. There's just nothing of substance for them to latch onto spiritually, but it's esoteric enough that maybe it'll get the freaky goth girl serving shots at the dive bar off campus to lift up her shirt.

 

[Jimjamflimflam]

I believe it, it makes the most "sense", at least to me.

Never a serious student of it, but from what I do understand it clicks the most to explain things to me. I'm sure I will get called a basic bitch but always had the idea that there were bits and pieces in lots of different faiths that form the greater picture when put together. I guess thats the idea of Theosophy though. And I've come to realize that these topics make people angry.

In Genesis 3:22, the usage of the word "us" is something that has made me go "wait, what? US? Who is this us?" and seems like just this passage alone can fill volumes to explain many different things.

 

[AntiMage]

the usage of the word "us" is something that has made me go "wait, what? US? Who is this us?"

Yes, exactly, in the original hebrew it is the word "Elohim", were the -im suffix denotes a masculine plural.
There are also a ton of other things that makes me go "hmmm", like how this god (YHWH) orders countless sacrifices and in some cases human sacrifices, how he orders for whole nations to be executed (children and all), how he tortures the very people that worship him, and how Jesus literally tells them to their faces that their father (god) is the devil.
Christians who believe that the old testament god is the same God that Jesus talks about, always give cope out refutations, so when I eventually learned about this gnosticism angle, everything clicked. That said I also came to the conclusion that no source will give you the 100% absolute truth, but the truth is from with in you.

 

[NvII iS 8ulLt f0R 88C]

“Error, indeed, is never set forth in its naked deformity... it is decked out in attractive clothing.” (Against Heresies, I.2)

I had my Gnostic phase too lol. It is enticing indeed for a rebellious heart trying to find the Truth. You'll grow out of it. Gnostics are hypocrites that pretend they have "secret knowledge" when in fact they know nothing. They have no single uniting theology (Nicean Christians agree on 95% of theology fuck off), it is just niggerbabble. Satan loves their delusions of grandeur and ego, rejecting the Holy Spirit, instead trying to use their own devices to learn about God. It is the literal antithesis to Christianity, claiming that men alone can assess divine knowledge.
Expectations:

Reality:

If your shitty little Pagan (small g) "gods" are so strong, why did they all lose to Jesus? Maybe Jesus was the one who actually provided all the virtues and your petty idols were all larp about how strong the men who (((worshipped))) them were? The real LORD hates hypocrisies.

Absolute cringe stupid motherfuckers that have too much free time and money to spend on ridiculous bullshit and self jerking "spirituality".
These niggers will either believe anything or make up any kind of shit to stroke their ego.

Said it best.
Read St. Irenaeus if you are genuinely trying to find the way. He lays out their hypocrisy for all to bare.

 

[Jimjamflimflam]

If your shitty little Pagan (small g) "gods" are so strong, why did they all lose to Jesus?

I guess Allah and Muhammad are the one true religion then since Christians are getting their shit kicked in everywhere.

Where is your God now?

 

[NvII iS 8ulLt f0R 88C]

I guess Allah and Muhammad are the one true religion then since Christians are getting their shit kicked in everywhere.

Where is your God now?

The Bible promises many prosecutions. The Christian spread (and victory over Pagan gods) was not through the sword (mostly, not counting the Baltic Crusades; the spread of Christianity through the Americas is no subject I can cover) but through hearts and souls aided by the Holy Spirit.
Islam being a shallow, materialistic heresy of the Truth; lead by a mad false prophet seduced and split the brothers. No wonder those adhering to this heresy fawn over vain military victories of this world.
Also Christians were using the word "Allah" to describe The Father way before Islam existed lol.

 

[Jimjamflimflam]

God never promised military victory and the Bible promises many prosecutions. The Christian spread (and victory over Pagan gods) was not through the sword but through hearts and souls aided by the Holy Spirit.

According to Christian chroniclers Eusebius of Caesarea and Lactantius, the battle marked the beginning of Constantine's conversion to Christianity. Eusebius of Caesarea recounts that Constantine and his soldiers had a vision sent by the Christian God. This was interpreted as a promise of victory if the sign of the Chi Rho, the first two letters of Christ's name in Greek, was painted on the soldiers' shields.

 

[NvII iS 8ulLt f0R 88C]

According to Christian chroniclers Eusebius of Caesarea and Lactantius, the battle marked the beginning of Constantine's conversion to Christianity. Eusebius of Caesarea recounts that Constantine and his soldiers had a vision sent by the Christian God. This was interpreted as a promise of victory if the sign of the Chi Rho, the first two letters of Christ's name in Greek, was painted on the soldiers' shields.

Constantine did not convert an empire with %0 Christians into a christian one overnight. There were many Christians in the empire despite the brutal persecutions way before Constantine. So no, the conversion of Rome was underway way before Constantine. He just put the roof and the paint on the building. Also Constantine never forced anyone to be Christian.

 

[Jimjamflimflam]

Constantine did not convert an empire with %0 Christians into a christian one overnight. There were many Christians in the empire despite the brutal persecutions way before Constantine. So no, the conversion of Rome was underway way before Constantine. He just put the roof and the paint on the building. Also Constantine never forced anyone to be Christian.

But he was promised military victory by God and set the scene for the conversion.

Then later destruction of other faiths with the authority by the church (European pagan, native American, African missionaries, etc)

Christ, just own it instead of this cucked hippie minds and heart bullshit.

 

[NvII iS 8ulLt f0R 88C]

But he was promised military victory by God and set the scene for the conversion.

Then later destruction of other faiths with the authority by the church (European pagan, native American, African missionaries, etc)

Christ, just own it instead of this cucked hippie minds and heart bullshit.

Then how is it that many many Romans were converted despite the efforts of Diocletian, Nero, Decius and co?

 

[Jimjamflimflam]

Then how is it that many many Romans were converted despite the efforts of Diocletian, Nero, Decius and co?

Why are many people turning away from Christianity? Why does Islam have many converts in the west without lifting a sword? Why is there a resurgence of whoonwhoo Wiccan shit? Is it because Christianity has lost favor with God? Nigga i don't know

All I can is that an appeal to popularity is for chumps

 

[Zertes]

My thoughts are that you are a nigger that shouldn't care what a gossip forum thinks of a religious movement

 

[NvII iS 8ulLt f0R 88C]

Why are many people turning away from Christianity?

Because God gave us free will and we are still seeing the impact of unseen comfortable life full off distracting temptations. Thus triggering the resurgence of Christianity in the modern age.

Why does Islam have many converts in the west without lifting a sword?

Lol lmao even. I would argue MENA has more Christian converts than Europe has Islamic converts. And France and co have churches full of new Christian converts.

Why is there a resurgence of whoonwhoo Wiccan shit?

Edgy teenagers trying the nu cool thing. That one is simple to explain. Literally no one believes in that shit.

All I can is that an appeal to popularity is for chumps

I didn't; I just said that Islam is a shallow, materialistic heresy of Christianity that spread mostly with the sword when Christianity thrived under persecution.

My thoughts are that you are a nigger that shouldn't care what a gossip forum thinks of a religious movement

Where can a young nigga go to discuss opinions online?
>inb4 you shouldn't online
The online space allows you to formulate well thought out opinions anonymously to find the truth and discuss. The reason it gets a bad wrap is because most people are self obsessed niggers who want to inflate their own ego who don't care about anything else.

 

[Sooty Soot]

Just convert to Islam already and let Allah SWT into your heart.

 

[Jimjamflimflam]

Because God gave us free will and we are still seeing the impact of unseen comfortable life full off distracting temptations. Thus triggering the resurgence of Christianity in the modern age.

Lol lmao even. I would argue MENA has more Christian converts than Europe has Islamic converts. And France and co have churches full of new Christian converts.

Edgy teenagers trying the nu cool thing. That one is simple to explain. Literally no one believes in that shit.

I didn't; I just said that Islam is a shallow, materialistic heresy of Christianity that spread mostly with the sword when Christianity thrived under persecution.

Fair enough mate. I can't much else without trying to hastily look up things and try to formulate a decent response to your thoughtful response while on the clock. So I have to bow out for now, chalk it up to a win for you

Where can a young nigga go to discuss opinions online?
>inb4 you shouldn't online
The online space allows you to formulate well thought out opinions anonymously to find the truth and discuss. The reason it gets a bad wrap is because most people are self obsessed niggers who want to inflate their own ego who don't care about anything else.

Agreed. What's the point in entering a thread of you don't want to read.

 

[Some Badger]

I guess Allah and Muhammad are the one true religion then since Christians are getting their shit kicked in everywhere.

Where is your God now?

Christianity is uniquely adapted from its foundations to withstand persecution; Islam does not. Islam teaches its practitioners to lie and omit when they’re a minority in whatever land they’re in, while Christians endured and practiced in secret persecution for over three centuries.

Come to think of it, there aren’t really any textual examples in Gnostic works of Christ espousing the ideals of holding firm and withstanding oppression for one’s beliefs. You could argue they’ve been lost to time (and I don’t count the Essene Gospel of Peace because I’m almost certain it’s a modern forgery), but with so many “lost gospels” circulating the Roman world, you would think at least a few Gnostic gospels would make that the focus of their teaching with how central it was to the gospels of the New Testament.

But no it’s all, “Christ lied to you and this how the universe REALLY works.”

 

[Jimjamflimflam]

But no it’s all, “Christ lied to you and this how the universe REALLY works.”

Everything I've seen in gnosticism tends to hold Christ in high reverence as the key figure and teacher.

 

[VM_]

Everything I've seen in gnosticism tends to hold Christ in high reverence as the key figure and teacher.

It all boils down to certain Gnostic sects viewing Jesus as a Dionysian serpentine deity who holds the keys of gnosis, a mercurial subversive figure who destroys empires, or the more canon-friendly Greco-Roman Apollonian/Zeus demiurgic ruler of the world, keeper of law and order. This is why any thread on this will eventually just turn into Christian apologetics.

 

[Rimanah]

As a theological system it’s dumb, for many of the reasons lain out by the Church Fathers, relevant councils, and various apologetics works on the topic. Frankly I find the Roman and Eastern Mystery cults that “Christian” Gnosticism is descended from more intellectually consistent and believable, since they weren’t trying to force their belief system into a religion that simply wouldn’t support it (without requiring you to deny most of the sacred texts that is).

Their mythos is cool as fuck thoughbeit. But starting to get a bit overused though in fantasy IMO

 

[Whatevermancer]