Weightlifting for Kiwis - Discussion and support regarding the art of swole

[Reactionary Rhetoric]

Ah sweet. I've been training this for the past week and I've got my deadlift up to 418ish lbs (my gym uses Metric system plates) and tripled the reps on my bench.

I've been implementing that program, but I still feel like I'm not doing enough in the gym in general. Like only doing Squat, Press and Deadlift on Monday just doesn't feel right. Maybe I just gotta get used to it, or am I fucking insanely exceptional and have clearly missed something? Maybe I've just gotta switch to not doing 20-30 working sets and only like 15 sets total in a workout...

Somewhat exceptional - the weights will be 'light' for the first few weeks, but remember you're meant to be adding 5-10lbs per session too, so they should get quite heavy, quite quickly

I would strongly encourage sticking to just the prescribed lifts so that you don't overload yourself - the idea is to keep the linear progression going for as long as possible. It'll really start to be challenging after about a month, for now you are building a base.

 

[aerostar88]

I'm going to be travelling to a major city within the month and will be looking to treat myself to a few gruelling trainer led sessions on days I don't go to my normal gym. There's a really promising gym close to where I'll be staying than specializes in both olympic weightlifting and crossfit. I'm heavily leaning towards doing the weightlifting as it is in line with my current interests, but everyone I've met who does crossfit seems incapable of shutting the fuck up about it once they find out I lift. Should I see what it's all about or is it not worth my time/money?

 

[Flabba Wabba Jabba]

I'm going to be travelling to a major city within the month and will be looking to treat myself to a few gruelling trainer led sessions on days I don't go to my normal gym. There's a really promising gym close to where I'll be staying than specializes in both olympic weightlifting and crossfit. I'm heavily leaning towards doing the weightlifting as it is in line with my current interests, but everyone I've met who does crossfit seems incapable of shutting the fuck up about it once they find out I lift. Should I see what it's all about or is it not worth my time/money?

Look, from what I've found heaps of people that do crossfit seem to have good intentions, but believe that it's such a revolutionary system they just HAVE to let you know about it. But if you're looking to get stronger/more muscle then yeah don't fucking go near crossfit. Also you know it's probably a sham if you have to pay to do 'proper' crossfit gym training instead of it just being an overarching term for a particular training style.

 

[Kyria the Great]

Right now starting to do lifting as right now I am downright puny as I currently weigh 146 lbs and my bench is probably at 120 and my squats is at my weight, but I am going whole hog on this at the gym and going to strengthen and tone my body as I intend a year from this moment to rest at 165 or more of muscle as I want to look good and feel good, though it is a long road ahead.

 

[Flabba Wabba Jabba]

Right now starting to do lifting as right now I am downright puny as I currently weigh 146 lbs and my bench is probably at 120 and my squats is at my weight, but I am going whole hog on this at the gym and going to strengthen and tone my body as I intend a year from this moment to rest at 165 or more of muscle as I want to look good and feel good, though it is a long road ahead.

You'd be surprised how easy it is to put on size in your first year or so of training. I was originally 200lbs at like 20% bodyfat before training, then now I'm currently 239lbs at 15%. Natty beginner gains are something to admire!

 

[Duncan Hills Coffee]

You'd be surprised how easy it is to put on size in your first year or so of training. I was originally 200lbs at like 20% bodyfat before training, then now I'm currently 239lbs at 15%. Natty beginner gains are something to admire!

Y'know that never really happened to me. I started working out a couple years ago, and my weight never changed until this year. I kept hovering around the 145 mark for an extremely long time. Now I'm a little closer to 150.

I think a lot of that had to do with me not eating enough though. I only recently found out I was eating less calories than what I should be consuming to maintain body weight.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

Looking for a bit more advice, Kiwis, if you'd be so kind:
I've been trying to gain weight for a few months now (which I know isn't much in weightlifting terms) but I'm starting to wonder if I'm not hobbling myself with my schedule: I work out M/W/F after my shift, which means that I hit the gym around midnight after being on my feet for eight hours, then I do cardio, then weights. I'm still wiry as fuck (high metabolism, endomorph, so skinny in the joints I had to get checked for Marfan's at one point,) but I've been making slow progress with the weight I can work, so that's something at any rate. I'm not sure if I'm not making progress (I'm making some, but not much,) or my expectations are out of whack.

Also, is it possible to alternate full body on one day with targeting muscle groups the next? I know you're not supposed to work the same group two days in a row, but I'm not sure how specific that rule is.

 

[Borzoi]

Looking for a bit more advice, Kiwis, if you'd be so kind:
I've been trying to gain weight for a few months now (which I know isn't much in weightlifting terms) but I'm starting to wonder if I'm not hobbling myself with my schedule: I work out M/W/F after my shift, which means that I hit the gym around midnight after being on my feet for eight hours, then I do cardio, then weights. I'm still wiry as fuck (high metabolism, endomorph, so skinny in the joints I had to get checked for Marfan's at one point,) but I've been making slow progress with the weight I can work, so that's something at any rate. I'm not sure if I'm not making progress (I'm making some, but not much,) or my expectations are out of whack.

Also, is it possible to alternate full body on one day with targeting muscle groups the next? I know you're not supposed to work the same group two days in a row, but I'm not sure how specific that rule is.

Why not do the cardio after lifting weights? How much cardio are you doing? You might be doing too much of that combined with moving 8 hours for work resulting in you not being able to push as much weight as you could. Gaining weight is mostly based on diet, eating more food, and getting enough protein I don't care how high your metabolism is (I know it can be difficult to eat enough).

If you target muscle groups after your full body days you will likely end up messing up your recovery for the next day, making it so you can't push as much weight the next full body day. Perhaps changing to a program that splits the body parts a bit more would be what you want, such as an upper lower split if you want to increase the training volume from what you have now to four days a week. I can't really recommend you add a bunch of accessory work to your full body days either since that might be too much as well unless it is minimal like adding in curls/pullups etc.

I think we might need a bit more information first, such as what lifts you do for your full body days, what your goal is (strength/size it seems like you want size). You are pretty new to lifting, don't expect massive progress right away, getting visibly bigger can take awhile depending on where you started, and strength gains for certain lifts can come slowly. That added with the fact that if you aren't eating more to compensate for the extra work you are doing you won't get any bigger.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

Why not do the cardio after lifting weights? How much cardio are you doing? You might be doing too much of that combined with moving 8 hours for work resulting in you not being able to push as much weight as you could.

My standard is 10 minute run at 8 MPH, though that's getting easy enough to the point where I need to up the distance or time. I always assumed cardio came first in order to warm up, but it occurs to me now that my perspective might be skewed given that I spend the previous 8 hours on my feet and working.

If you target muscle groups after your full body days you will likely end up messing up your recovery for the next day, making it so you can't push as much weight the next full body day. Perhaps changing to a program that splits the body parts a bit more would be what you want, such as an upper lower split if you want to increase the training volume from what you have now to four days a week.

Hmmm... so I don't suppose it would work full body/targeted on Monday/Tuesday, then again Thursday/Friday? I hate going on days that I don't work because it throws me off- my body is just so much less responsive when I don't come from work, and I also eat a lot less on those days, so I run out of energy faster. Now that I'm typing this, I realize I should probably work on that- being less hungry as a result of being less active is probably not a cue I should be taking from my body if I want to gain weight.

I can't really recommend you add a bunch of accessory work to your full body days either since that might be too much as well unless it is minimal like adding in curls/pullups etc.

That might just do the trick. I want to focus on my chest and arms (narcissism, and having them be very skinny compared to my lower body) but I just want to improve overall.

I think we might need a bit more information first, such as what lifts you do for your full body days, what your goal is (strength/size it seems like you want size).

I basically just go down the list: run, squat/military press, abs, chest (push-ups, dumbell press, plate pullover), tri (seated tri extension, lying tri extension), bi (barbell curl, incline dumbbell curl, incline hammer curl) and forearms (wrist curl, wrist extension.)

I assume that size and strength go together, though I'd prefer size if I have to choose. My long-term goal is to be 200 lbs (and not a fat fuck.) I'm 6'1" if that helps, and generally float around 175.

Thanks for the advice, BTW. Just sitting down and writing it is helpful for me.

 

[Borzoi]

You may want to

My standard is 10 minute run at 8 MPH, though that's getting easy enough to the point where I need to up the distance or time. I always assumed cardio came first in order to warm up, but it occurs to me now that my perspective might be skewed given that I spend the previous 8 hours on my feet and working.



Hmmm... so I don't suppose it would work full body/targeted on Monday/Tuesday, then again Thursday/Friday? I hate going on days that I don't work because it throws me off- my body is just so much less responsive when I don't come from work, and I also eat a lot less on those days, so I run out of energy faster. Now that I'm typing this, I realize I should probably work on that- being less hungry as a result of being less active is probably not a cue I should be taking from my body if I want to gain weight.



That might just do the trick. I want to focus on my chest and arms (narcissism, and having them be very skinny compared to my lower body) but I just want to improve overall.



I basically just go down the list: run, squat/military press, abs, chest (push-ups, dumbell press, plate pullover), tri (seated tri extension, lying tri extension), bi (barbell curl, incline dumbbell curl, incline hammer curl) and forearms (wrist curl, wrist extension.)

I assume that size and strength go together, though I'd prefer size if I have to choose. My long-term goal is to be 200 lbs (and not a fat fuck.) I'm 6'1" if that helps, and generally float around 175.

Thanks for the advice, BTW. Just sitting down and writing it is helpful for me.

For warming up all you really need to do is work up the weights you do starting with the bar, adding weight in increments (maybe 1/2 of working weight then 3/4 whatever works) until you hit your working weight for your sets. For warmup sets you don't do as many reps as your working sets cause you don't want to exhaust yourself for those. I know some people like to do really light cardio before starting their weightlifting but it really should be minimal, maybe five minutes or so just to work up a sweat, and even then they do warmup sets. Personally I don't do cardio before working out because like you I work in a place where I have to constantly move and lift things all day.

Something I notice that your full body routine neglects back work as well, so you may actually want to add in pull-ups/chin ups, and or some sort of barbell row. Deadlifts are great for overall strength gains but I am not sure where you would put that in with a full-body routine like yours, it would be really tough. Definitely consider adding in back work because neglecting the back can lead to some weird muscle imbalances over time.

Oh and size does not necessarily equal strength, it does correlate to a certain extent, but the training for both is different. For example for size, bodybuilding, etc people go for hypertrophy which means they do more reps in the 8-12 range for their sets. For strength people generally stick to the lower rep range 1-5 reps per set for their important lifts. That is why you can see guys who don't look massive but can lift extremely heavy compared to their bodyweight.

And no problem this stuff is just fun to type out, it is just my opinion keep that in mind but you will have to find out what works for you. I am giving the advice to focus on diet most of all however, because that is what held me back for a few years where I just wasn't getting the right macros to make any significant progress. After I fixed that I started doing significantly better.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

For warming up all you really need to do is work up the weights you do starting with the bar, adding weight in increments (maybe 1/2 of working weight then 3/4 whatever works) until you hit your working weight for your sets. For warmup sets you don't do as many reps as your working sets cause you don't want to exhaust yourself for those. I know some people like to do really light cardio before starting their weightlifting but it really should be minimal, maybe five minutes or so just to work up a sweat, and even then they do warmup sets. Personally I don't do cardio before working out because like you I work in a place where I have to constantly move and lift things all day.

OK, this makes a lot more sense than what I was reading previously (or maybe I just wasn't understanding it properly.) I'll put this in tomorrow, see how it works.

Something I notice that your full body routine neglects back work as well, so you may actually want to add in pull-ups/chin ups, and or some sort of barbell row. Deadlifts are great for overall strength gains but I am not sure where you would put that in with a full-body routine like yours, it would be really tough. Definitely consider adding in back work because neglecting the back can lead to some weird muscle imbalances over time.

Yeah, I've been wanting to put deadlifts back in; I started with Starting Strength but wandered away from it because I wanted to focus on my upper body more. That's what I was thinking about for a Monday/Tuesday and Thursday/Friday split: Monday and Thursday, do bench/mil press/squat/deadlift, then Tueday and Friday do all the chest and arm shit. If I was to throw it in to what I currently do, I'd probably slot it in at the beginning, or leave it for last; trouble is that my current routine is already a hair under two hours, and I might just be running myself ragged at that point to no particular benefit.

And no problem this stuff is just fun to type out, it is just my opinion keep that in mind but you will have to find out what works for you.

Thanks, it's still clarifying to talk about this stuff to someone who's not trying to sell me anything; my social circle is exactly what you'd expect from someone who posts on KF about Star Wars and other pop culture shit, so I have to look outside that circle for helpful advice.

 

[thejackal]

You'd be surprised how easy it is to put on size in your first year or so of training. I was originally 200lbs at like 20% bodyfat before training, then now I'm currently 239lbs at 15%. Natty beginner gains are something to admire!

Wait what? You put on 39lbs of muscle (well more if you cut your body fat) in one year? Where do I get those "vitamins"? With decent diet you should expect to put on about 10-15lbs of lean mass a year at most. At most. Most adult males would be thrilled with adding 5-8lbs of mass.

As for crossfit -- crossfit is stupid. crossfit is called (wait for it) -- working hard in the gym. That's why it works. There's not some magic in crossfit lifts and gyms. It's also dangerous and pushes newbies to do movements that I wouldn't recommend even to seasoned lifters.

Best advice I ever got at the gym was from a former bodybuilder turned gym owner. I asked him why he never did deadlifts and he said at his age there was an injury risk and that risk, no matter how low, was unnacceable. First rule of training is you can't train if you're hurt. So don't get hurt. With age, the risk of injury increases and what's safe for a 20 year old in prime condition might not be for a 40 year old, prime condition or otherwise.

As for general advice on splits and "what works": there's a lot of right ways to warmup, do your split, do your sets and so forth. There is only one wrong way, so just avoid the wrong way and you'll be fine. Some of the dumber things I see at the gym are guys doing 1-2 rep maxes with weight they can't handle (dropping the bar or doing a half rep on the bench where the bar doesn't even come down more than two inches) and taking a good 3-5 minutes (literally) between sets.

This is not how to lift weights. For starters you're putting yourself at injury risk lifting near max. And you're not getting any cardio in while you do it. Supersets. Supersets are your friend. You should always be trying to get cardio in while you lift. I like to do box jumps, or jump rope in between bench sets. or do abs. Just keep your heart rate up, this is something that crossfit advocates they just don't do it safely enough imo.

For splits, I recommend rotating one body part to focus on every month and really hammering it twice a week, then do everything else once. At my age I can't really do that anymore but if you're young and recovery fast you should be able to do two hard leg days a week then on you other two days you can do arms/chest and back/shoulders. I like to work in cardio and core into every workout. You can do a lot of core stuff off the yoga ball while working your upper body, like dumbell flys.

anyways, happy lifting, enough sperging.

 

[Flabba Wabba Jabba]

Wait what? You put on 39lbs of muscle (well more if you cut your body fat) in one year? Where do I get those "vitamins"? With decent diet you should expect to put on about 10-15lbs of lean mass a year at most. At most. Most adult males would be thrilled with adding 5-8lbs of mass.

As for crossfit -- crossfit is stupid. crossfit is called (wait for it) -- working hard in the gym. That's why it works. There's not some magic in crossfit lifts and gyms. It's also dangerous and pushes newbies to do movements that I wouldn't recommend even to seasoned lifters.

Best advice I ever got at the gym was from a former bodybuilder turned gym owner. I asked him why he never did deadlifts and he said at his age there was an injury risk and that risk, no matter how low, was unnacceable. First rule of training is you can't train if you're hurt. So don't get hurt. With age, the risk of injury increases and what's safe for a 20 year old in prime condition might not be for a 40 year old, prime condition or otherwise.

As for general advice on splits and "what works": there's a lot of right ways to warmup, do your split, do your sets and so forth. There is only one wrong way, so just avoid the wrong way and you'll be fine. Some of the dumber things I see at the gym are guys doing 1-2 rep maxes with weight they can't handle (dropping the bar or doing a half rep on the bench where the bar doesn't even come down more than two inches) and taking a good 3-5 minutes (literally) between sets.

This is not how to lift weights. For starters you're putting yourself at injury risk lifting near max. And you're not getting any cardio in while you do it. Supersets. Supersets are your friend. You should always be trying to get cardio in while you lift. I like to do box jumps, or jump rope in between bench sets. or do abs. Just keep your heart rate up, this is something that crossfit advocates they just don't do it safely enough imo.

For splits, I recommend rotating one body part to focus on every month and really hammering it twice a week, then do everything else once. At my age I can't really do that anymore but if you're young and recovery fast you should be able to do two hard leg days a week then on you other two days you can do arms/chest and back/shoulders. I like to work in cardio and core into every workout. You can do a lot of core stuff off the yoga ball while working your upper body, like dumbell flys.

anyways, happy lifting, enough sperging.

The thing is is that I was pretty strong for someone who hadn't done weightlifting/weight training before. Just that I knew a couple of guys that were seriously into training at the time so I got put on a good, strict diet and got taught good ways to grow muscle right from the start. I disagree with steroid use unless you wanna compete so I haven't touched that shit. I'm not Simeon Panda (which is fake natty ass bullshit), but for reference my arms were 13 inches at the start of 2018 and are now 20.5 inches. Look genetically shit though

 

[Dracula's Spirit Animal]

Wait what? You put on 39lbs of muscle (well more if you cut your body fat) in one year? Where do I get those "vitamins"? With decent diet you should expect to put on about 10-15lbs of lean mass a year at most. At most. Most adult males would be thrilled with adding 5-8lbs of mass.

As for crossfit -- crossfit is stupid. crossfit is called (wait for it) -- working hard in the gym. That's why it works. There's not some magic in crossfit lifts and gyms. It's also dangerous and pushes newbies to do movements that I wouldn't recommend even to seasoned lifters.

Best advice I ever got at the gym was from a former bodybuilder turned gym owner. I asked him why he never did deadlifts and he said at his age there was an injury risk and that risk, no matter how low, was unnacceable. First rule of training is you can't train if you're hurt. So don't get hurt. With age, the risk of injury increases and what's safe for a 20 year old in prime condition might not be for a 40 year old, prime condition or otherwise.

As for general advice on splits and "what works": there's a lot of right ways to warmup, do your split, do your sets and so forth. There is only one wrong way, so just avoid the wrong way and you'll be fine. Some of the dumber things I see at the gym are guys doing 1-2 rep maxes with weight they can't handle (dropping the bar or doing a half rep on the bench where the bar doesn't even come down more than two inches) and taking a good 3-5 minutes (literally) between sets.

This is not how to lift weights. For starters you're putting yourself at injury risk lifting near max. And you're not getting any cardio in while you do it. Supersets. Supersets are your friend. You should always be trying to get cardio in while you lift. I like to do box jumps, or jump rope in between bench sets. or do abs. Just keep your heart rate up, this is something that crossfit advocates they just don't do it safely enough imo.

For splits, I recommend rotating one body part to focus on every month and really hammering it twice a week, then do everything else once. At my age I can't really do that anymore but if you're young and recovery fast you should be able to do two hard leg days a week then on you other two days you can do arms/chest and back/shoulders. I like to work in cardio and core into every workout. You can do a lot of core stuff off the yoga ball while working your upper body, like dumbell flys.

anyways, happy lifting, enough sperging.

I sort of agree with that, but that isn't what works for me. I'm in my 60s now, and consider the deadlift the foundation. Im not even close to pulling what I did 25 or 30 years ago, but I just got back into it a couple of years ago. I do deadlifts almost every workout, although they are more for form and warm up. I'm not doing a lot on my non-deadlift focused days, but I usually warm up evry workout with 275, or if in the mood, 3 plates. Gets the blood flowing. The real deadlift focused days are more serious of course. I was well above 5 plates back in the day, but those days are gone. I can't even do 4 plates if I'm having an off day, and doubt I will see more than 455 unless I actually make that a goal.

Basically, almost every workout has some level of deadlifting (I'm trying to do 2 serious deadlift days a week, but it can fry the nervous system), and doing back work every workout. Mostly painfully slow eccentric pullups with a band and a row.

I rarely do much isolation work. I switched to buying a squat rack and olympic bar and weights last year, working out at home, so there are some things I'm missing out on. I wish I could find a decent way to farmer's carry around my place, since I think the deadlift, farmers carry, and pull up are the most foundational exercises for strength. Probably the squat too, but I have always hated squatting. My squat is only marginally better than my bench.

@Krokodil Overdose I think you should either lay off the cardio or do it after. You are probably not so much warming yourself up as fatiguing yourself so you can't go balls deep with effort for your lifts. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that's a possibility.

 

[MetalParakeet]

I'm still too weak and scared to try a deadlift. I have no one to teach me and I'm pretty confident I will damage the living hell out of my back

 

[thejackal]

I sort of agree with that, but that isn't what works for me. I'm in my 60s now, and consider the deadlift the foundation. Im not even close to pulling what I did 25 or 30 years ago, but I just got back into it a couple of years ago. I do deadlifts almost every workout, although they are more for form and warm up. I'm not doing a lot on my non-deadlift focused days, but I usually warm up evry workout with 275, or if in the mood, 3 plates. Gets the blood flowing. The real deadlift focused days are more serious of course. I was well above 5 plates back in the day, but those days are gone. I can't even do 4 plates if I'm having an off day, and doubt I will see more than 455 unless I actually make that a goal.

Basically, almost every workout has some level of deadlifting (I'm trying to do 2 serious deadlift days a week, but it can fry the nervous system), and doing back work every workout. Mostly painfully slow eccentric pullups with a band and a row.

I rarely do much isolation work. I switched to buying a squat rack and olympic bar and weights last year, working out at home, so there are some things I'm missing out on. I wish I could find a decent way to farmer's carry around my place, since I think the deadlift, farmers carry, and pull up are the most foundational exercises for strength. Probably the squat too, but I have always hated squatting. My squat is only marginally better than my bench.

@Krokodil Overdose I think you should either lay off the cardio or do it after. You are probably not so much warming yourself up as fatiguing yourself so you can't go balls deep with effort for your lifts. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that's a possibility.

You're obviously a lifetime lifter that knows your body, utilizes proper form and knows when to back off so in your case yea go for it. I've switched to trap bar deadlift as I think personally it helps my form and really prevents the rounded back laziness that leads to problems.

I'm still too weak and scared to try a deadlift. I have no one to teach me and I'm pretty confident I will damage the living hell out of my back

In general, in all your lifts, practice having a flat back and a tight core. It's something that luckily us sportsballer teens learned as an athletic movement long ago but I see adult noob lifters really, really struggle with it. I always try and keep my chin up and imagine trying to place a spoon on my back without it falling off. Visualization is helpful I feel. Start with no weight just the bar and get the movements and form correct and then add your weight.

 

[Flabba Wabba Jabba]

I'm still too weak and scared to try a deadlift. I have no one to teach me and I'm pretty confident I will damage the living hell out of my back

Look I found it quite daunting at first. Stories of Hernia's, popped discs and injuries galore. I didn't touch deadlifts until 7 months into training. But I've only found recently that through correct deadlifting my posture has gotten much better, my neck is thicker which has given me a lot more confidence and has overall given me more energy throughout the day.

It's like learning to masturbate properly, once you got the pattern down it's sooooo fucking good.

Squat is at 200lbs

Bench is at 155lbs

So far I still have gym time during my busy season. Body weight gain is still rather minimal. Hope to acquire my supplements in two weeks or so.

If I don't mind asking what's your bodyweight? Also supplements don't do shit. I used to use them and I'm making more gains now on just real food then I was on supplements. It's really not that hard to make yourself a 10-12 egg (only 4 yellows) omelette post-workout then a protein shake. Plus they're real calories too, not synthetic ones just added for 'bulking'.

 

[Duncan Hills Coffee]

In general, in all your lifts, practice having a flat back and a tight core.

I've had terrible posture most of my life, so I have a lot of difficulty trying to keep my back straight, especially my upper back. This isn't just with deadlifts, I find squats really difficult to do since half the time the pressure is more on my back and shoulders than it is my legs.

I might just have a weak back in general, and I have been trying to strengthen it. Trying to maintain a better posture has been challenging though.

 

[Recoil]

What's all this I hear about shady pre-workout drinks?

 

[Unnatural Selection]

Benching the Monolith makes me question whether or not I want to live anymore. Squats went well, but I clipped the pins on bench on my 5th set and almost missed the set. This morning I woke up not wanting to walk. Feelsgoodman.