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In retrospect, has JJ actually made anything good?
I know that UNDERTALE is a pretty divisive game but it's certainly had a longer cultural lifespan than Lost or the Star Trek reboot or the Star-Wars sequels.
Dude I fucking HATE how lore in media now is basically just "no dude you don't get it, you have to find this extremely obscure fact that Glup Shitto likes green eggs and ham from this NOW DELETED TWEET from its creator on the Wayback Machine, or dig through a 17 hour livestream they did for charity where they namedropped who killed Glup Shitto's mother! This is super duper important and totally justifies the dogshit writing of what I like u guys, TRUST!!!!!!"
Don't get fooled, you don't actually have to do any of that. You can just interact with the media the same way 95% of the audience will do: through the game itself. If the story of the game fails at explaining itself without tons of supplementary material then it is poorly done and you're free to laugh at how the entire thing is the digital equivalent of a dog shit in the middle of the road.
Someone else in this very thread mentioned eebrozgi (one of the people in the credits for the chapter 5 of Deltarune) and the game he worked on called Void Stranger.
Apparently there's a troonout somewhere in the picture but the game itself is not really all that poisoned by that and the author has close to zero social media presence so I am willing to give it a pass.
Void Stranger is a very good example on how to do "hidden lore" the right way. A casual player can beat the game and not see about 80-90% of what it has to offer because the hidden lore is skillfully hidden in the most munduane of places. Discovering the hidden meaning of these places is extremely rewarding and recontexualizes the entire game in a way I've never seen done before. The deeper you go the more rewarding it all becomes. You also get the complete package right away; the author doesn't require you to wait a decade for some sort of a plot twist. It is a proof that you can hide things away in a satisfying way without burying these things deep in the game code or relying on some sort of an obscure ARG that will eventually get forgotten.
Anytime I see vague posting in games; especially indie games; I immediately assume it's to bait the theory videos.
I mean for fuck sake Toby, you're popular to the point the game cannot fail. There is literally zero need to be baiting theory videos for views.
^^ The fact that homestuck niggers cannot be hunted for sport is a crime honestly ^^^
ALSO mixed in with le "KIDDDY TEENAGE DRAMA WAS ALWAYS THE FOCUS CHUD!!!!" i swear to god these people will the death of toby's career MARK. MY. FUCKING. WORDS.
I'm going to assume Friend is going to be mute like the knight, and after 5 or maybe 6 chapters of hype, it has to be a most difficult secret boss Toby has made to live up to it.
just in case there was any sliver of doubt, these are unused assets from current chapter, I find highly implausible that we will see any type of kriselle, there's only going to be lesbianism.
I don't like Deltarune's gay humor or pronoun bullshit and I can still say this guy's criticism is straight ass. I wouldn't recommend anyone to side with him just because he's the only mainstream "chud" contrarian and calls Kris he or him. He nitpicks every single detail and bloats his videos just to make it look like a well researched critique.
I can barely listen his suicidal teenager voice but for a random example, at 12:43 of the second video, "...The Characters in Chapter 3 aren't extensively shown to have any history to prove their existence before the player enters it..." only works if you closed your eyes whenever Tenna talked about how Toriel used to watch cooking shows or when Kris and Dess used to listen to live concerts or Kris' bath bombs or the entirety of Mancountry, etc.
It's more like sealioning than actual critique.
Semi-related to Deltarune, at least in fangames with the creator of Deltatraveler, Ryno Productions (now known as SarahBunnie...no points to guessing if that sounds like a troon handle), for just a desperate showing on how low these faggots can go on how to feel vindicated on their choices...like Twitter being actively humanely dangerous for this troon he reposted.
But seriously, Deltatraveler is clearly in the wrong hands....I think somebody else should. Its got good ideas bogged down by a fucking crybaby.
Ver archivo adjunto 9252681
Semi-related to Deltarune, at least in fangames with the creator of Deltatraveler, Ryno Productions (now known as SarahBunnie...no points to guessing if that sounds like a troon handle), for just a desperate showing on how low these faggots can go on how to feel vindicated on their choices...like Twitter being actively humanely dangerous for this troon he reposted.
But seriously, Deltatraveler is clearly in the wrong hands....I think somebody else should. Its got good ideas bogged down by a fucking crybaby.
>SNCA faggot fangame is run by a faggot creator.
Wow and a bear shits in the woods, shocking. Go play Undertale Yellow since that has value and no up front faggotry from what I've seen besides furries.
I fully agree with the rest of your post. But I don't think Toby decided to "reveal" anything relating to FRIEND or eggs. I think he "made up" some bullshit to make it seem chapter 5 had something going on.
IF you think about it, the multiple friends and eggs thing has been hinted at. The Shadow Mantle summoned copies of Friend during its fight. Spamton also had his Pipis, which it seems like now that he was being hunted. The YT guy who made the Woody Theory videos always caught flak for saying that he believes there are multiple Friends, but looks like he was right, but he was also saying that Friends are likely going to be a chapter 7 generic enemy.
People like to think Toby has a huge mental corkboard of interconnected story beats and mysteries. I did too, before chapter 5. But I think the truth is that he just makes it up as he goes along. I think the only real thing that he has figured out is the ending of Deltarune. Not how it gets there, not how it's developed or paced, just the ending.
I think he just has story beats on the corkboard, but he is winging it outside of those story beats, which is how you end up with uneven dialog, Characters between chapters forgetting what happened hours ago or the mood they were in, etc.
Ignoring schizotheories, how else do you explain Susie cheering up immediately after chapter 3's ending? How about in 5 when she got over Flowery dying immediately? Or most egregiously, her complete and utter lack of shits about what happened at the end of 4? Not a single moment of angst about it? Not one?
How can you look at Berdly and not see a character who is completely sidelined because he's the only character who has several different things that can happen to him? He can't even die because Toby isn't sure if he might need him at some point, so in the meantime he has to languish on a hospital bed in a coma while no one outside of Noelle and Susie ever comments on it. Why? Because every single character that ever mentions Berdly after chapter two has to have at least three separate lines of dialogue because three different things can happen to him.
Killing off characters has always been a problem in choice-based games. If a character can be removed from the game, you can bet that their role from that point forward is going to be minimal. This is due to the amount of development required to make branching stories. You can go back to the OG Walking Dead Season 1 from Telltale to see this. In Episode 1 you had the choice to save a guy or a chick. The character you saved barely did anything in episode 2. Then in episode 3, they both get killed at the same place in the story. Mass Effect had this problem with ME2, where major characters (Wrex, Ashleigh/Kaiden) that could die were barely in it, but since ME3 was the end of the series, they went and did SOME stuff with them. If a character did die before 3, their position in the story was replaced by a similar character (Wrex replaced by his brother, Thane replaced by the Salarian Commander, Tali you would deal with one of the other Quarians during her homeworld stuff). Hell, you can look at Dispatch from last year to see this in action. At the end of Episode 2 you have to choose to cut either Moistbattical from the team or the nigger assassin. The person you choose to keep barely has any character development unlike almost all the other characters, and the person you cut shows up at the end with no character development as a villain.
This issues won't be resolved until AI starts to be mass adopted for game development, then it will allow branching stories.
Look me in my chad Lancer avatar's eyes and tell me Toriel was always going to be asleep for the entirety of chapter 3. Tell me that Toby always planned for Undyne to be in it for only ten seconds before exiting the story entirely. No. He obviously planned to originally involve the two much more deeply into the story (or at least the chapter) but couldn't come up with a way to write them in, and so he practically gave up.
I was asking in Chapter 2, what was the point of having the Undertale characters in this? Chapter 3 did it further, then chapter 4, then chapter 5. You could replace all the UT characters with new OC do not steals and it would effect the story next to none, unless Sans and Gaster eventually do shit. I think Toby always planned to be using them as window dressing.
The area in chapter 4 with Gerson's library was at some point going to be a completely interconnected level with branching paths and that flowed into each other and the like. But it was too hard to make! So they gave. Up.
If Toby gives up so easily when it comes to the major characters and plot points in the actual story... Why would you trust him to write a satisfying mystery beyond just vagueposting? If he's willing to go back and add in more mysteryboxes, then why would you ever get invested into any theorizing?
So what else are we supposed to do? Go play the newest AAA slop? The theorizing is part of the fun of the whole thing. Yeah, Chapter 5 was shit and you can tell with all the flowers that the tranny devs got their claws deep into the direction of the story.
As people have said in this thread, no one aside from Tumblr people are talking about Chapter 5 because it moved the story 0. It vagueposted non-stop. And it was just a slog outside of a few highlight moments. There's a reason why the entire discourse around chapter 5 is the Onion-san, weird route, and pirate gaster stuff, it's cause the chapter went no where, so people are latching onto the little bit of advancement and shitposting we did get. Toby went in at 1 am last night and added like 10 lines of dialog and those 10 lines of dialog did more to advance the overall story and lore and years of theory than the entirety of chapter 5.
The big thing is just wait a few more years for AI to advance, then maybe we'll get grand story games where all the theorizing and mysteries pay off and aren't bogged down by lesbo romances and filler chapters.
What that tells me is that the majority of professional writers are total niggermonkey frauds who should not be employed as writers. I imagine it's similar to voice acting where the entire industry is rotten and has been unable to produce high-quality work for the past decade, but it's kept afloat out of nepotism and sheer necessity.
They are basically theatre kid cliques, most of them californian nepobabies who desire nothing more to fit in and spread The Message. They are naturally huge faggots. And yes, this reaches up to the highest levels of the most profitable keystone franchises in existence, see Star Wars sequels. Naturally talented and skilled people cannot really break in, because the nepobabies strangle their career out of fear and jealousy. The exceptions to this rule are the ones who got too big and too associated with a single work.
Also, tangentially related but even worse. Toby brought the worst of twitter scum abroad, including the bitch who destroyed Skullgirls through false allegations. You can see their work right on Ch5. Immediately the worst chapter, completely tone deaf, doesn't answer anything to the point proper lore content has to be hotfixed in and the literal only thing that they cared about is the heckin LGBTQIAA+ representation genderspecials and lesbians. Left alone, they would completely abandon the whole plot about the knight and fountains and darkness and shit, and just make all the characters troon out and make anti-Trump statements. As Tolkien said, evil cannot create, it can only corrupt and destroy.
ARG shit can be cool as long as the creator has the courtesy to organize the ARG shit in some way for later viewing when the events are over and sites die or get neglected. If I have to thumb through a wiki just to put the basic plot together in a way that's remotely coherent, something isn't right.
Don't get fooled, you don't actually have to do any of that. You can just interact with the media the same way 95% of the audience will do: through the game itself. If the story of the game fails at explaining itself without tons of supplementary material then it is poorly done and you're free to laugh at how the entire thing is the digital equivalent of a dog shit in the middle of the road.
Ex-fucking-actly! I am so fucking fed up with theorybait mystery box bullshit storytelling. JUST TELL YOUR FUCKING STORY LIKE A NORMAL PERSON YOU FAGGOT, I am so tired of media not explaining itself in any meaningful way. It feels like everyone is doing this dogshit now where they never directly explain anything and vaguepost all the time basically leaving it up to the audience to write their lore for them.
It also feels like they're so unconfident in their own writing they leave it vague purposefully so later they can just say it's whatever is most convenient at the time. Or they have this retarded need to subvert expectations and that the viewer must always be wrong, their theories must always be wrong no matter what even if it makes no sense and the story has to bend over backwards to make it happen. I fucking hate it.
I think part of it as well is people being retarded and thinking a predictable story means the story is bad. That's not how it works, in fact the opposite is true. I forget who said it, it might have even been multiple famous authors but I'm too lazy to track down anything in particular. All I know is somebody once said fans being able to predict an upcoming plot twist is not a bad thing. It isn't some failing on you as a writer it means you properly foreshadowed and set up future events and thusly rewarding viewers for paying attention. But I think modern writers have this wrongful idea that if people can predict what will happen next then you fucked up, which is completely untrue.
Basically, modern writers need to let go of this retarded idea of constantly subverting and one upping the fans and just focus on writing a fucking coherent story.
No. friend have always been building up to be one character even if it can multiply. i bet that toby retconned this and in 2018 that wasn't planned. i won't go deeper into this, but friend having similarities to susie and literally appearing in her room should already tell you something. this dialogue feels like like a middle finger to theorizers just like the mike room. toby is making up shit on the fly.
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Semi-related to Deltarune, at least in fangames with the creator of Deltatraveler, Ryno Productions (now known as SarahBunnie...no points to guessing if that sounds like a troon handle), for just a desperate showing on how low these faggots can go on how to feel vindicated on their choices...like Twitter being actively humanely dangerous for this troon he reposted.
But seriously, Deltatraveler is clearly in the wrong hands....I think somebody else should. Its got good ideas bogged down by a fucking crybaby.
This is going to be Kris in chapter 7
Horrible, wretched life.
I would genuinely, honestly rather be raped than have this happen to me. I mean sure getting raped sucks, but at least with rape you don't lose your dignity. It's (probably) not your fault you got raped.
But in this case, the retarded goycattle who subjected himself to this is completely at fault. If you are raped, you may be raped of the body, but this"man" is completely and utterly raped of the mind and soul.
