Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

[Vernerus]

Source?

It used to be on TCRF, but with all the trannies fighting over the deltarune page layout, all I could find right now are reddit references to the page from 3 years ago.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/10qel4v/unused_version_of_noelles_room_has_what_appear_to/

 

[Peru oso donas]

A ship so badly written it gave me schizophrenia and made me think Susie is Streibough-ing Kris.

What you say makes a lot of sense and I'd love to believe it, but after seeing Toby fumble the bag and failing to read the room after deciding Ch. 5 needed to be the one last silly adventure before shit gets serious, I'm gonna temper my expectations and expect the worst in case Toby does go full unrepentant Yuricuck (which I think he may just so he won't get lynched by the susellefags if he bait and switches them).

 

[spagandhi]

I also want to include the likelihood that the Dark Worlds were originally Noelle and Kris' thing from when they were kids.

I just don't know about it being Noelle and Kris's childhood game. Noelle refers to chapter 2 as a weird dream but she, in all the pontificating she does on the blog, never alludes to weird dreams she had about Kris in the dark world.

She would also surely not have gone so far off the deep end if she was aware of dark world mechanics. The closest thing we get is that the dark world is like Dragon Blazers, but if Rudy and Noelle are into it, we can probably continue the pattern that Dess was into it too.

(Asriel is a fucking dweeb, don't forget)

 

[Leakage Current]

What you say makes a lot of sense and I'd love to believe it, but after seeing Toby fumble the bag and failing to read the room after deciding Ch. 5 needed to be the one last silly adventure before shit gets serious, I'm gonna temper my expectations and expect the worst in case Toby does go full unrepentant Yuricuck (which I think he may just so he won't get lynched by the susellefags if he bait and switches them).

Susie/Noelle is absolutely intended as a 'this is not supposed to be this way' kind of thing. It's still yurifagging but it's going to blow up spectacularly.

 

[Diddyhammad]

*What's the deal with the Soul? Who the fuck is it and what does it want? How did it lose its original body? How did it find kris? What does it want in either route and why? (Don't say the fucking player that gay and cringe as fuck.)

Isn't it implied in the first chapter that the soul was created by gaster? Not to mention. It's borderline impossible to separate the player and the soul since they're so integral to each other. Being a vector for the player to control kris and all.

*What the fuck the connection with undertale is.

I recall that when toby said that deltarune has no ties to undertale. I Immediately knew it was him telling bullshit. Issue is how the logic surrounding soulless beings work in both undertale and deltarune.

*What's the deal with Kris like... as a whole? Why is he helping the knight? How did he lose his original soul? How did he get the red soul?

I'm half convinced he was experimented on by gaster after a life threatening incident where he lost his original soul(possibly in the same incident where dess died or was "lost"too)

1. We get answers, and normies who don't give a fuck about Gaster or any of the meta stuff will

Hes barely even an"unknown character" especially with how much the fanbase has shed the spotlight on him. Even the normies to an extent know about him and being the guy who's probably responsible for half of Deltarune even happening.

I dunno but the whole theory with deltarune being some kind of " virtual program" reminds hell of a lot of a certain xbox exclusive title from 2004.

If so. I wonder if deltarune is supposed to be some kind of training program against some kind of unstoppable evil (maybe the angel that's alluded to in ch4?). Could be interesting if aborted route or hell, if the weird route ends up being canon.

 

[Shamino]

I wouldnt be so certain. But suselle will definitely are gonna be put through a ship crisis phase on 6. Considering now the team has 4 members and the combat format is 3.

 

[John Hazbin]

this is bit ooc but why are faggot Homestuck fans are much clawing onto deltarune for any relevancy those attetion seeking morons have been pissing me off ever since chapter 5 dropped i am noticing most of the people defending this god awful chapter from any sort of criticism also are homestuck fans:

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

Homestuck fans are retards, this is known.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

Best case scenario the Gaster related stuff is elaborated on in the weird route or aborted weird route since some amount of meta knowledge is required to even do it.

Not so!

With the release of Chapter 3 you actually don't have to know jack shit meta-wise to do the weird route, the game straight up tells you how to do it (albeit cryptically) in the SWORD route.

"The forbidden Path Began with Ice Magic" -> Use Noelles freeze abilities
The city maze -> Finding the Thorn Ring
Killing every enemy to be strong enough to progress -> self explanatory
The dungeon maze -> Push Noelle in the right direction
Freeze the bird that refuses to let you pass -> Snowgrave Berdly
Go to the ICE Temple at the very top of the map across the ocean -> Go to the edge of the world (the lake)
"The ICE Key was used up"/"She was used up/You were used up" -> Kris and Noelle "open the door" by drowning together and break out of the narrative

Then the final two screens in SWORD are 1) Kris walking alone in the darkness and 2) Kris being forced to go to the shelter, while he actively resists you and tries to run away but you overpower him.

Then you get to the place where the mantle is and you can't get it. It's out of your reach and big Kris has to walk into the game and get it for you.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

I just don't know about it being Noelle and Kris's childhood game.

While it could've been a childhood game for all four of them, there are definitely some aspects that are uniquely Kris and Noelle.
I can't imagine Ramb asking Kris "* ... how is she, Kris? Are you two...? Well, it's alright. Everyone changes. 'cept us." if he was talking about Noelle. I get the feeling that he'd have at least overheard if Noelle just fuckin... vanished.

But I noticed something else in my quest to find Noelle's reaction to the Dark World.

* (Sigh...)
* (Kris is the only one who knows how weird I am.)
* (It's not fair, y'know!?)
* (Everyone knows how weird YOU are. Fahahaha.)
* ...when I said this city makes my head spin...
* I didn't mean in a bad way... you know?
* I always wanted to go someplace new, you know?
* ... And Dess... always told me she'd take me.
* Somewhere like this.
* Somewhere with shining lights.
* ... don't you miss exploring, Kris?
* Back when the four of us were kids?

Just more evidence of Noelle secretly being weird as shit, though I can't really find much in the way of Noelle acting like she knows what a Dark World is, but it was continually reinforced that it was just a dream to her, and it's not massively likely that your first thought would be "oh, the imagination game I used to play with my childhood friend!" Then again, we don't actually see Noelle's immediate reaction to finding herself in a Dark World.

* Noelle clicked on a link for creepy game glitch compilations!

Found this, too.

The best evidence I've got for Noelle at least having some involvement in Cyber World is this excerpt from her blog, which seems to allude to the Plugboys and the Werewires, and also Ramb (though he's a plugboy so whatever)

I literally thought I was going to choke on my tears. It only made me cry more that I had to plug the game back in by myself. I was so scared that I would get electrocuted and die from the wires. I was actually always afraid of electrical sockets too because I thought they were looking at me XD

 

[Smack Patrick]

Glad I've never actually read anything about Homestuck.
Glad I know fuck all about it.
Legit the only thing thing about Homestuck I've seen is the grey skinned dude with the emo hair, and I'm not even entirely sure it's a Homestuck thing.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

Then you get to the place where the mantle is and you can't get it. It's out of your reach and big Kris has to walk into the game and get it for you.

Thinking about it a little more this may actually be a clue that the aborted weird route is preferable over the full weird route.

If you go all the way and "use up" the ice key/yourself/noelle when you actually get to the end you're completely fucked. You get softlocked with the mantle just out of reach on the final screen, you NEED Kris to help you.

 

[Every One Procedural]

I just don't know about it being Noelle and Kris's childhood game.

It's implied by this bit of dialogue from Ramb:

Time flies... Seems like just yesterday you and that girl had everyone here lined up. Queen on her side, King on your side, Tenna in back... Oh, it was chaos, CHAOS! Heh, only kids like you two would take a laptop home just to play make believe.

But he never says anything outright.

 

[Incorrigible Bigotry]

I'm kind of surprised he's not a troon or a buttpirate tbh. Really really wild to me how he's cultivated such a homo friendly status he can be a straight? man slurping over 15 y/o lesbians without being called a disgusting pervert freak. I mean I respect him playing his stupid fans like fiddles, but

He's like Keith Stack (creator of the Wacky Lesbian Hour) in that indulging his fetish has inadvertently made him into an ally.

 

[Großmann]

I'm fully convinced gaster will straight up not be eleborated on. Other than being mentioned ONCE in ch7 probably.

I wish people would take this as a default position. The game NEVER talks about Gaster being involved in anything happening. It’s all made up schizobabble that’s been repeated so often since 2018 that you have people bringing up “Gaster’s involvement” in the story as if it’s an established fact when it isn’t.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

I wish people would take this as a default position. The game NEVER talks about Gaster being involved in anything happening. It’s all made up schizobabble that’s been repeated so often since 2018 that you have people bringing up “Gaster’s involvement” in the story as if it’s an established fact when it isn’t.

That dickhead Gaster Follower Normal NPC cooked up and fed us Onion-san.
That's infinitely more Gaster related content than Toby has ever done before.

 

[Kris]

I liked the chapter, but I'm kind of hoping Toby shifts into gear and does another 3&4 release but with 6&7 or something. It was a fun chapter but as far as story progression goes it kind of feels like we haven't really gone anywhere. Feels like we're just how we were at the end of Chapter 4 but now another person got stolen. We haven't made any progress other than getting one code. It was a fun experience overall but I just wish we did a bit more. Waiting a year after the last release just to hamsterwheel a bit stings I guess.

The Suselle stuff felt annoying with how incredibly forced it was. Susie was saying stuff like "being with you makes my days better" and the two have had zero actual interaction outside of like, that one study sesh at Noelle's house. Tony wants his lesbians so we're probably going to have to just grin and bear it.

 

[Goodstuff Goose]

I can't imagine Ramb asking Kris "* ... how is she, Kris? Are you two...? Well, it's alright. Everyone changes. 'cept us." if he was talking about Noelle. I get the feeling that he'd have at least overheard if Noelle just fuckin... vanished.

To me this line implies that the relationship between Kris and the girl has changed, not that the girl is gone. And we see this being talked about in Chapter 5 between Kris and Noelle (write in their names as King and Queen, then head to the ferris wheel) -- they are estranged by that point, but Noelle remembers the good times. Ramb is talking about people changing, not people going away or disappearing.

And I mean, Noelle does say that the Dark World is "kind of like Dragon Blazers". It would make sense for it to be that way if it was something thought up by Kris and Noelle, or a combination of them, as both are confirmed gamers who played Dragon Blazers.
Neither Dess nor Asriel are ever stated to have played that game. In fact, Dess seems to be more about wanting to be a real life rock star, but being terrible at it.

 

[Timaeus Testified]

Glad I've never actually read anything about Homestuck.
Glad I know fuck all about it.
Legit the only thing thing about Homestuck I've seen is the grey skinned dude with the emo hair, and I'm not even entirely sure it's a Homestuck thing.

Much like The Amazing Digital Circus, it's one of those things that you cringe at in hindsight. At the time though it got you a lot of friends, it gave you something to go cosplay as at conventions, and something to talk about.

I just want to say, for the record, that leaning on the crutch of Determinism, that events are written in an unbreakable prophecy and must come true no matter what, is really, really weak storytelling. Which is not to say I dislike prophecies in stories; Percy Jackson had a new prophecy every book and I loved the hell out of those stories. What matters is how you cleverly set up events so that the prophecy comes true, despite the characters knowing there's a prophecy and trying actively to avoid fulfilling it. Alternatively, the heroes look for clever ways to subvert the obvious interpretation of the prophecy, while still giving themselves a fighting chance to succeed.

Susie and Noelle rapidly falling in love in the most shamelessly rushed romance scene because it was foretold in the prophecy that "LOVE would find the girl" is a pathetic excuse for this love scene. Then again, Noelle testing the limits of "conditional immortality" due to the prophecy in the Weird Route is strangely interesting to me, if for no other reason other than it gives a character besides Kris some agency for once.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

not that the girl is gone

Whoops, that was what I was trying to say, but I fucked up and put Noelle instead of Dess for the girl vanishing.
I think that was what Ramb was saying too, but if he had been talking about Dess, he wouldn't have asked about her in such a tactless way, so it could only have been Noelle.

Susie and Noelle rapidly falling in love in the most shamelessly rushed romance scene because it was foretold in the prophecy that "LOVE would find the girl" is a pathetic excuse for this love scene

The copetheory is what makes me think that this was the point. Things start to make a lot more sense if you remove Susie from the formula entirely, and the LOVE that is spoken of is Noelle and Kris reconnecting (which with the proper choices, somewhat happens anyway if you go with Kris + Noelle king and queen, the hammer test, and the ferris wheel) seems to be far more organic than the rushed nonsense garbage "i herd ur heartbeet" of Susie and Noelle.
Susie was never meant to exist in Hometown, or be in the prophecy, and now shits all fucked up.

There's a line somewhere in Chapter 3 about keeping the ones you love at arms length or something. I'll find it later.

Susie's incredibly rapid progression of a relationship with Kris, who's also always loved her despite her treating him like absolute garbage, is also quite suspect, but it doesn't get talked about as much, but even with those two it's been what... four days since they started talking with each other seriously?