Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

[Strangolapreti]

Asriel

This character has become toby fox's greatest cocktease and its not even funny at this point.
I even doubt we're even gonna see him in chapter 67 at this point.

I remember that character. Really, just because they're both purple? That's retarded.

90% of chapter 5 was references.
References to previous chapters, references to undertale, references to JRPGs, references to anime tropes, references to upcoming reveals, references to touhou project, references to japanese erogames, references to toby's favourite NTR doujinshi, references to tumblr niggerfaggotry and references to the mother trilogy.

In the past, toby has stated how unoriginal his games are, but even then, this is a new low from him.

I'd even dare put forward other associations

I really doubt those flowers match the characters the way you listed.
Thinking about it, I really want to know how did seth came to learn about Burghley.
Having Asgore's basement freely accessible would be boring, flowers just being able to sense people around, rather than just the darkness would be both boring and retarded and, honestly, it'd be nice if Burghley and Noelle came to study those flowers for their class project and that's how seth learnt about him.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

oh and, why does the game marks chapter 5 progression save file with _b after completing the weird route? you don't save on the ch5 weird route isn't it?

Schizo Theory time.
In Undertale, your save file is only your save file because Frisk has the most determination in the whole fucking world.
In Weird Route, it's possible that whatever the fuck happens with Noelle gives her enough determination that she overrules Kris/Your control over the save file.
Fuckin, Deer Chara.

 

[Sunset Ethernia]

Schizo Theory time.
In Undertale, your save file is only your save file because Frisk has the most determination in the whole fucking world.
In Weird Route, it's possible that whatever the fuck happens with Noelle gives her enough determination that she overrules Kris/Your control over the save file.
Fuckin, Deer Chara.

oh i am stupid it's completion file (filech5_4_b). but it creates an autosave filech5_9_b, why is it needed in the first place though?

 

[smartgenius55583433157]

oh i am stupid it's completion file (filech5_4_b). but it creates an autosave filech5_9_b, why is it needed in the first place though?

When you die to a boss, the game teleports you right before the fight begins.

It's a temporary save file

 

[Sunset Ethernia]

[side_b]
complete="1.000000"

there is this thing on top of dr.ini file after completing chapter 5 weird route. was is it even necessary to add it?

 

[A Fly on the wall]

that's why i believe that in chapter 6 your choices are going to start to matter fucking hard. aborted weird route could do something, if you get the thornring OR keep it equipped by aborting it in the lake. thornring quest, shadowcrystal quest and egg quest ending is probably the main gimmick of the chapter.

oh and, why does the game marks chapter 5 progression save file with _b after completing the weird route? you don't save on the ch5 weird route isn't it?

My personal theory based on what we know about the code is that the completion file has been temporarily stored in the game's memory until the weird route picks back up, whenever that may be. It's also worth noting that doing the lake scene fully will have an effect on the universal save file, which up until now has only really kept track of stuff like shadow crystal bosses so you can get the crystals themselves as well as the gear dropped by bonus bosses, so I think the lake scene is the moment your copy of the game gets "stained" in much the same way they taking Chara's deal at the end of UT's genocide route does.

 

[Retarded Weeb]

 

[smartgenius55583433157]

HOLY FUCK 2018 DELTARUNE FANS I KNEEL

 

[Dracula]

Ver archivo adjunto 9210269
I don't think /v/ is doing well after Ch5.

I dread to imagine what was going on in /sus/ threads on /trash/ right after ch5 dropped

 

[You Can't Un'Ape The Doe]

I haven't fully caught up with this thread yet so I'm not sure if anyone else has brought this up, but to add to proof for the "Susie-is-evil/a-traitor" theory.

Before the Flowery fight, theres a scene where Flowery is asking basically "what gives you guys the right to keep your dark world, but not us the right to keep ours?" (paraphrasing) And then he says "why not get rid of castle town and let us keep our fountain?"

And Susie immediately has a visceral reaction before Flowery continues saying "are you really gonna get rid of OUR FANTASY to keep your own?"



Susie then copemaxes and says goes "SHUT UP YOU STUPID GOY FLOWER!" (again, paraphrasing, but I felt the hatred for the goy in her heart)



And later on, when Flowery says to Ralsei "I was just trying to help you realise you could be happy"

And after that interaction ends, Susie's first response is to go "just ignore that guy Ralsei, he's a jerk."

So after the chapter I was thinking "wow that went nowhere, Susie's just being a real a fat and horrible cunt for no reason," because the fun gang never has to come to terms with the whole moral question, instead the flowers decide to give up the world on their own, but looking back on it, this is the PERFECT foreshadowing "susie-is-an-evil-malevolvent-dyke" theory.

-Susie is replacing Kris' world/fantasy/whatever with hers, for no consideration for Kris (both with the Noelle relationship and bringing her into the dark world, AS WELL AS Susie replacing Kris in the meta-narrative)
-Susie is actively interrupting and disregarding someone being nice to a friend she supposedly cares about (Not sure who Ralsei/Flowery would be parallels to in this scene specifically though)
-Susie is being a twat retard about it for no reason, actively dismissing everyone else's dream just like how she is dismissing Kris and (by proxy) Noelle's
-This conflict doesn't get resolved in this chapter BECAUSE IT'S NOT MEANT TO. It's foreshadowing for chapter 7 where we save hometown from Susie's evil mind-rape.

Toby I kneel. I forgive you for the gay black transvestite and the yurislop. (I'm not sure if my images will send properly since I'm a new user but I added some for reference to the dialogue I'm referring to)

 

[mer569]

During re-entering the darkworld, after Assgore kicks you out, you land in jail and meet with one of the flowers.
Seth says that they "had a deal" before he opened the Dark Fountain.

What the fuck does that mean?
Is Kris just talking to flowers? How did they know who made the fountain?
Did the people in the Dark Worlds always know? Why didn't they snitch on Kris?

 

[SIMON THE PIEMAN]

I've caught up to chapter 5 after initially abandoning the series back in 2021 after the release of chapter 2. So far my impression is that the only fun part is trying to figure out what is going on, the actual game mostly sucks ass.
The story is all over the place, on one hand you have genuinely interesting mysteries like the weird route, the shelter or the prophecy, on the other hand the amount of stupid bullshit to actually good stuff is insane. It feels like 80-90% of the story the game tries to tell is pointless filler and padding. This is really bad for a game of this length that isn't even finished yet.
I have no idea what's up with the characters in this game, most of them are unbearable tumblr-tier OCs cranked up to 11 that make the Undertale characters look like a paragon of normalcy, the cringe just oozes from the screen. If this is the original vision Toby Fox had back in the early 2010s IT REALLY SHOWS.
I didn't really care for the gameplay for the most part. It's Undertale 2 and when it's not it rarely does anything interesting. The chapter 5 gimmick was pretty cool, the other stuff is unremarkable or just plain bad (especially chapter 3 minigames, holy fuck that sucked).
The only real fun I've had with this game was theorizing and connecting the dots. This unfortunately seems like something that is better done on your own, since people on the internet seem to obsess over stupidly hidden details like unused game files that I'm 100% sure won't amount to anything substantial in the end or by talking about characters that aren't even in the fucking game. I guess that's on me, I've set the bar too high, I should have remembered how people acted about Undertale a decade ago.
The timeframe of these games is also insane. It feels like the chapter system has been introduced solely for the benefit for the author and to the detriment of the players. None of this feels like 8 years worth of development. In the same timeframe Team Cherry managed to release Hollow Knight Silksong, a game that not only has a way higher production value than Deltarune but also was considered to be comically late in terms of the release date.
All in all I feel like tons of people are setting themselves for a massive disappointment in about 1-2 years when chapter 6&7 will drop.

 

[Incorrigible Bigotry]

Made a separate save at Mew Mew (why the fuck is she the secret boss?) because I apparently suck at bullet hell games and just wanted to see how the chapter ends, and...

This was honest-to-God my reaction when it cut to the credits after Kris walked away from the school closet. There was barely any overarching plot development. Shit, we don't even know if Rudy (who is totally the Knight btw) actually fell off the ladder and it wasn't just a diversion tactic to get Noelle away from Susie and Kris so the Flower King dark world could be created (it totally was btw).
Also Toby can bash that Noelle and Susie conversation time skip up his ass. I don't think I could imagine a lazier way to develop the relationship between two characters than "and then they talked for hours and they're sooooo in loooove now~~~~". Fuck off. The writing for their relationship sucks and he knows it.

At least Aqua being a little gremlin was entertaining.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

I cried out to the universe in my schizophrenia, and the universe answered.
I just saw this image associating the forest around hometown with Pando, a massive network of an enormous Quaking Aspen.

I proceeded to pick up the book I was using as a prop for my laptop, and opened it to a random page on a whim. It turned to the page of the Quaking Aspen (The European Aspen, though it's clonal like the variant found in the USA), and was a book on forests.
But it gets better, for my book of schizophrenia says as such:

"One of our less familiar native trees, the aspen is sometimes called the quaking aspen, because its leaves tremble in the slightest breeze- a feature that has been the source of much folklore, all associating this pretty tree with evil and gossip."

The book goes into further detail about the association with evil:

The aspen's almost constant leaf movement has been the source of much local folklore and legends throughout the range of the tree's distribution. Many have a biblical basis. In Wales it was said that the aspen was used to make the Cross, and for this reason, its leaves would never rest. In some areas of Scotland the aspen was regarded as evil because it was the only tree not to have bowed during Jesus' procession to the Crucifixion. As a result, people used to avoid using the wood. Indeed, feeling was so strong against the aspen in Scotland that some people used to throw stones at it. There are similar legends elsewhere in Europe. In Germany, Jesus is said to have cursed the aspen because it would not acknowledge Him and, in parts of Russia, it was known as the tree of Judas.
The movement of the aspen's leaves seems to have led to associations with the sound of gossip and loose tongues, particularly with the tongues of women. This association is found in parts of Scotland, where the tree is known as 'old wives' tongues' In parts of Berkshire, it was referred to as 'woman's tongue' and the Welsh name for the aspen, 'coed tafod merched' also refers to the same image, as does the Manx name of 'chengey ny mraane'. Nowadays, it seems strange that such an attractive and pleasing tree should, in the past, have been the subject of so many evil associations and unpleasant stories. Without these, the aspen might perhaps have been more widely planted than it has been.

The Judas Tree.
I'm not sure what all this means, probably nothing, as I kind of doubt that Toby managed to do a deep dive on fucking aspen trees of all things, but I felt like sharing my brief tumble into the power of autistic coincidence. I mean, fucking hell, what are the odds?

 

[mer569]

Toby Fox is clearly a Scott Cawthon-esque developer - he makes the fucking story up as he goes. Fan service is key, and the fandom dictates the lore. It's sad really.

This is definitely the case in Deltarune, especially after he started having more people work on it.

I had to replay all the previous chapters to remind myself what was going on, and it felt extremely fucked going from CH4 ending being serious with the rain starting as it ends and Susie saying we're "definitely going to stop this" to some tranny's self insert story.

Oh you've had a serious chapter with a bunch of revelations? We'll start off the next chapter by instantly railroading you to go to Castletown and pick out a wacky outfit for Susie!

 

[You Can't Un'Ape The Doe]

The dark twisted horribleniggerslop side to the evil Susie theory is that the setup with of Susie disregarding other's dreams to pursue her own (selfish evil bitch...) is NOT gonna be about how she stole Kris' life and girl and cucked him, but is instead about how she needs to dyke-out with Noelle and forget about the Dark World and have a lesbian wedding IRL or something like that.

I of course pray to god thats not the case. It really just depends on how raped Toby is, but if he still has any artistic integrity then I don't see how he could end the story like that, because how could you possibly dream that and decide to make a game about that unless he's actually just that incredibly raped from being cucked?

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

-Susie is replacing Kris' world/fantasy/whatever with hers, for no consideration for Kris (both with the Noelle relationship and bringing her into the dark world, AS WELL AS Susie replacing Kris in the meta-narrative)

Your posts only just started to show up (probably because it's a new account) but I have something to add to this.
Judging from Ramb's dialogue in Chapter 3, the Dark Worlds are supposed to be like, a uniquely Noelle and Kris thing, when they played at the Dreemurr residence when they were kids.

* Time flies... Seems like just yesterday you and that girl had everyone here lined up.
* Queen on her side, King on your side, Tenna in back... Oh, it was chaos, CHAOS!
* Heh, only kids like you two would take a laptop home just to play make believe.
* ... how is she, Kris? Are you two...? Well, it's alright. Everyone changes. 'cept us.

Susie isn't just stealing Noelle. By trying to basically take ownership of Castletown, she is really quite explicitly literally stealing Noelle and Kris' childhood dreams and fantasies.

 

[Kitty Cat Man]

I'm not sure what all this means, probably nothing, as I kind of doubt that Toby managed to do a deep dive on fucking aspen trees of all things, but I felt like sharing my brief tumble into the power of autistic coincidence. I mean, fucking hell, what are the odds?

I'm pretty sure they're just supposed to be ginkgo biloba, because toby is a weeb and they're in ever "dude JAPAN lmao" game/movie ever.

I had to replay all the previous chapters to remind myself what was going on, and it felt extremely fucked going from CH4 ending being serious with the rain starting as it ends and Susie saying we're "definitely going to stop this" to some tranny's self insert story.

I'm pretty sure that the rewrite(from Omori-esque ending to whatever we're getting now) only really started effecting the MAIN PLOT in this chapter, since the rest of the game has been setting up mysteries and lore which overall would've been unchanged since the general setup would remain the same and everything else is just padding Toby cooks up on the fly.

Someone else ITT said something like Ralsei is the tree Dess hanged herself on, and I'm pretty sure this is what the original plot would've been - vaguely, and Flower King would've dealt with Asgore knowing something about that, but since that plot's gone out the window in favor of Goner Cult Kills Everyone and Gaster/Device 2deep4u shit - we got this, and Asgore's just talking about some vague EVENT that Tobias probably hasn't even fully fleshed-out

 

[Best Dio Dindu Nuffin]

So after the chapter I was thinking "wow that went nowhere, Susie's just being a real a fat and horrible cunt for no reason," because the fun gang never has to come to terms with the whole moral question, instead the flowers decide to give up the world on their own, but looking back on it, this is the PERFECT foreshadowing "susie-is-an-evil-malevolvent-dyke" theory.

Honestly my first thought was that Susie reacted this strongly because the prophecy's ending probably has something to do with closing the castle town dark fountain.

 

[synthetic_glazer]

I was thinking back on Undertale and had a weird urge to watch some gameplay of it, and although I at first strongly disliked it and vastly preferred Deltarune when I played that later down the line, I actually am starting to change my mind on that.

The art in Undertale is much worse imo, but the gameplay is a lot more cohesive since outside of the Mettatron stuff (sort of) the game pretty consistently remains with the half RPG half bullet hell gameplay or starts with while also iterating and building upon it. I really started to appreciate this when I realized that the end game variants of froggit and that moth thing have similar bullet patterns to their Ruins counterparts while being more difficult and complex. That's really good design imo. It feels like Deltarune won't have that sort of iterative gameplay since it engages with its own systems much less. I could also get into how it goes in with the enemies better too, like having to get close but not too close to the tsundereplane, but I don't remember the first few chapters of Deltarune well enough to say with any certainty if Undertale is better on this front or not.

I will say that while the moment to moment writing of either of the games tends not to be my cup of tea (I found most of the UT characters annoying in a bad way, for instance) but I think I prefer Undertale to Deltarune on that front. I find the writing to be trying too hard a lot, but Deltarune has an over reliance on [HUMOROUS] Quirkiey Writinge and internet memes (and leaning into its own fandom memes which imo is pretty grim). Time will tell if I enjoy the overall story more in Deltarune. I thought that was set in stone especially with the Snowgrave Route, but chapter five is making me iffy on that.