Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

[Cucktry Roads]

Another interesting part about Shadow Crystals is that Spamton doesn't know what he knows because of his, because his Shadow Crystal isn't his at all. It's Mettaton's. The NEO Body was Mettaton's lost dream. Spamton knew so much because he made a deal with Big G to become a [BIG SHOT].
Barring Jevil who we still kinda know fuck all about (Who the fuck did he meet?), every single other Shadow Crystal Holder has had at least something to do with Lightner's lost dreams. Spamton NEO = Mettaton NEO's dream, Knight = Who fucking knows, but light world related, Gerson = the next generation never picking up the pen, Mew Mew = finding a perfect body for herself that she knows can't last.

I've followed Tear theory for a while. Lightners crying over broken dreams
Jevil's was likely Kris's tears, since you don't get a shadow crystal during the fight and instead the next day Seam says Kris has it
Spamton's was Hapstablook/Mettaton
Roaring Knight's was its own since it was crying right after killing Tenna
Gerson's was Alvin crying over his dad's death and living in the shadow
Mew Mew's was likely Asgore's crying over losing his family.

 

[Großmann]

Now he does [have shareholders].

So he runs a publicly traded company? All the copyright informations says that Deltarune is a trademark of Toby Fox (2018-2026). I see no companies attached, let alone publicly traded ones.

 

[Cun75p4rkl35]

Nobody ever liked mad dummy's character

I liked it as a one off gag, but toby's trying to tell us something and he needs to shut up and troon out already and stop making it everyone else's problem

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

So he runs a publicly traded company? All the copyright informations says that Deltarune is a trademark of Toby Fox (2018-2026). I see no companies attached, let alone publicly traded ones.

If you would please refer to the chart:

 

[Nicholas II of Russia]

I still find it baffling that we ended chapter 4 in such an endgame note like having to fight something like this, and at a pivotal turning point in the story, and Toby Fox or some tranny that infiltrated into the writing's room said. "You know what can we do to top this? Like half an hour of rushing a ship that didn't have all that building in the first place and make Susie unlikable."

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

I get that it's supposed to be the "one last adventure before things get serious" chapter but we already fucking had that.

It was Chapter 3.

 

[Cucktry Roads]

So there's been some speculation on whether the game's world is literally a game or simulation in-universe due to Ralsei and Flowery bringing up game mechanics and the UI. I'm thinking it's actually just supposed to be a Dark World thing, and not that that Hometown on the whole is a simulation

I think it'll be a game/sim. at the end of UT Flowey/Asriel pointed out it was a game. Then Sans was writing off the save/load mechanics as time travel.

Ver archivo adjunto 9208008

I still find it baffling that we ended chapter 4 in such an endgame note like having to fight something like this, and at a pivotal turning point in the story, and Toby Fox or some tranny that infiltrated into the writing's room said. "You know what can we do to top this? Like half an hour of rushing a ship that didn't have all that building in the first place and make Susie unlikable."

The more I think about it, Toby really should've swapped Chapter 4 and 5. You would then the Chapter 1 setting up the story. 2 teaching you more of the story, 3 and 4 teaching you a tiny bit more while slowly escalating in each ending, then we get to the Church world and it's lore dumping and escalating everything, followed by chapter 6 and 7 wrapping everything up.

But nope, 2 fillers acting as bread between the meat of the sandwich, and the chapter 5 bread does not even mention the meat.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Ver archivo adjunto 9208008

I still find it baffling that we ended chapter 4 in such an endgame note like having to fight something like this, and at a pivotal turning point in the story, and Toby Fox or some tranny that infiltrated into the writing's room said. "You know what can we do to top this? Like half an hour of rushing a ship that didn't have all that building in the first place and make Susie unlikable."

This is one of the major things that make me believe in Evil Susie/Altered Prophecy Theory. Originally I imagine the prophecy was meant to be about Kris and Noelle's relationship, so the whole "Love finds its way to the girl" thing would've been the culmination of their journey through the Dark Worlds together. Just about every single Dark World has some sort of connection to the games that Noelle (heavily implied) and Kris used to play "King on your side, Queen on her side, Tenna in the back, it was Chaos! Chaos!"

Think of things like this, if Alphys had originally run out of chalk and needed more, she probably would've sent Kris to the closet, as he was the last to arrive, and probably Noelle as well, as the student closest to Kris to make sure Kris didn't fuck around. But instead Susie shows up at school that day (Which is itself, apparently uncommon enough to surprise Alphys). Naturally, this confuses the fuck out of the prophecy, so Susie, now in the role of the Girl knows she should fall in Love, but doesn't know what Love even really feels like. Meanwhile, Noelle, who should have been the Girl, and should have fallen in love has an unhealthy obsession with Susie. So what should've been a culmination to something, instead feels like something that's just wasting time.

Either Toby is a total fucking hack, or he's deliberately writing a romance that doesn't make sense because destiny demands it.
It could... honestly be either.

 

[Professor Donger]

Someone in my Steam family has this game, and I'm tempted to try it since I liked Undertale. Would you guys say it's worth playing?

 

[Nicholas II of Russia]

Someone in my Steam family has this game, and I'm tempted to try it since I liked Undertale. Would you guys say it's worth playing?

It is, certainly. It's probably gonna get you hooked because the story is actually kind of hooking and endearing. I recommend playing the chapters one by day, you won't regret it.

 

[Real Fakeman]

Someone in my Steam family has this game, and I'm tempted to try it since I liked Undertale. Would you guys say it's worth playing?

If you like Undertale then you are almost certainly going to like Deltarune. Definitely worth playing.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Someone in my Steam family has this game, and I'm tempted to try it since I liked Undertale. Would you guys say it's worth playing?

Do it so you too can become schizophrenic.

 

[Scream Aim Fire]

It's straightforward told to you that nobody blamed him for anything. He blamed himself, and everyone left him for it. Altough, it seems, nobody quite realized that he didn't blamed himself for causing anything, just not preventing it, or solving what had happened, thinking of himself as a failure which eventually consumed him.

Ah, my bad; haven't gone over Chapter 5 with a fine-toothed comb just yet.

He's the incarnation of the typical heterosexual white men in the game. Of course he gets raked across the coal. It's not even hard to understand him and have sympathy for him, it's just that he's the most easy target.

No straight white men are allowed in woke works.

It's really ironic how much shit he's getting in deltarune without explanation by Toby, while Toriel is the one hated by the community after the events of ch 4 and she got 0 consequences.

Honestly, the whole "fuck Asgore" shit has gotten beyond tiring; funnily enough, I remember back when Chapter 1 dropped that a few YouTubers said that Asgore's bad state outright ruined the entire game for them. The fact that Toriel keeps getting praised shows exactly where Toby's priorities are.

Ver archivo adjunto 9208008

I still find it baffling that we ended chapter 4 in such an endgame note like having to fight something like this, and at a pivotal turning point in the story, and Toby Fox or some tranny that infiltrated into the writing's room said. "You know what can we do to top this? Like half an hour of rushing a ship that didn't have all that building in the first place and make Susie unlikable."

Honestly, I dread what the next few chapters are going to be like; can't help but feel like the plot's going to get even more fart-huffy.

 

[Cucktry Roads]

Someone in my Steam family has this game, and I'm tempted to try it since I liked Undertale. Would you guys say it's worth playing?

You can download the demo which contains chapter 1 and 2 for free and see if you like it.

DELTARUNE on Steam

UNDERTALE's parallel story, DELTARUNE. Meet new and old characters in a tale that steps closer to its end, chapter by chapter. Dodge bullets in nonviolent RPG battles as you listen to funky, funky music. Try Chapter 1 and 2 for free... now!!! More chapters in development!!!

store.steampowered.com

 

[Professor Donger]

You can download the demo which contains chapter 1 and 2 for free and see if you like it.

DELTARUNE on Steam

UNDERTALE's parallel story, DELTARUNE. Meet new and old characters in a tale that steps closer to its end, chapter by chapter. Dodge bullets in nonviolent RPG battles as you listen to funky, funky music. Try Chapter 1 and 2 for free... now!!! More chapters in development!!!

store.steampowered.com

I mean true but like I said, someone in my family owns the game, so I can just play it if I choose to.

 

[Two Dollars]

I previously said I was going to post a review of Chapter 5 once I finished everything, but I already talked about most of what I was going to say in earlier posts. So I’ll pull out a few assorted thoughts I’ve rarely/never seen mentioned here and adapt them to what’s been theorized over the last few days:

Spoiler: A bunch of thoughts

After Susie says she sees love as something that happens when one side says they love another (hinting that she may not know what she’s doing), Ralsei says he thinks love is something that perseveres even at its lowest point. I initially saw this as a hint to the player that Suselle might not be endgame, and specifically that Susie would have second thoughts as the chapter progressed, but then she just spent the entire chapter simping over Noelle anyway.

On that note, I’m all-in on Evil Susie theory now. I was going to rant about everything in the chapter being a subversion of expectations for the sake of subverting expectations, and how hypocritical it is for all this to happen right after Gerson talked about too much predictability and insincerity being bad for a story… but Evil Susie would be the mother of all subversions, so I’ll just leave it at that for now.

One weird bit of dialogue was the “reveal” that the Knight was responsible for creating the Cyber World dark fountain. Haven’t we… known that since Chapter 2? Why does Susie act like that’s a major twist? Or were Asgore’s notes referring to an earlier computer lab fountain?

I had written that with Rudy falling down, we know the Knight all but has to be Dess, so just say it. But there’s still the argument that Rudy didn’t actually fall and is only stalling while Kris opens the fountain, and also a new theory that the Knight is actually a fusion between Weird Route Kris and Noelle (it would explain all the similarities to both). Also, the reveal that Rudy fell down came at the end of the worst cutscene in the entire game so I wouldn’t blame anyone for overlooking it by mistake lol.

I didn’t like how Ralsei gave a serious, heartfelt reveal about how he’s aware of the game’s menus, and it felt like we were about to get some serious 4th wall shit… except lol Susie already knows all that stuff because the other guy told her two minutes ago. It feels like a lot of the chapter only exists so Toby can say “all your theories are wrong, goodbye”.

That being said, I loved the weird route, short as it may have been, and I think I’m more interested in it than Pacifist at this point. The terrible forced romance (offscreen this time, thank God) actually works in its favor since it emphasizes that without our influence, Noelle is stuck doing “Noelle things”. The cutscene that plays after failing the route even implies that Noelle doesn’t actually want to be with Susie and is only doing it because the prophecy is forcing her.

Never has there been so much riding on an upcoming chapter. Chapter 6 could either retroactively make Chapter 5 a brilliant and important part of the story, or put Deltarune in the pile of other mystery box media that dropped the ball once people realized the writers didn’t actually know what they were doing.

… but that being said, even if everything does get redeemed, I think a lot of people (myself included) will still see Chapter 5 as the worst one because of the worse characters, much worse music, disappointing festival, Susie being nearly unlikable, etc.

 

[my penis is on fire]

I get that it's supposed to be the "one last adventure before things get serious" chapter but we already fucking had that.

It was Chapter 3.

Chapter 5 failed where Chapter 3 succeeded for a number of reasons. Chapter 3's runtime was shorter than 5's and it had more varied gimmick game mechanics, meaning you switched between things faster and didn't get bored as quickly. Chapter 3 also had the Sword Route, which was much more interesting than Chapter 5's secret boss quest and also made the chapter feel less like filler. 3's cast of enemy darkners was smaller, and the turn-based fights that break up the flow of gameplay were less common than in 5. The platformer sections were great, but what I feel was missing is some sort of optional ultimate challenge that tests your platformer combat prowess, something like Eram at the end of the Sword Route.

Story wise, Chapter 3 was towards the beginning of the game and occurred at a time when the true stakes of this situation were not known. Chapter 5 is not only past the halfway point, it also takes place in a location that was framed as incredibly important. Flower King is a place we were shown as early as Chapter 1, in which it was implied "yeah there's definitely gonna be a dark world here at some point." Asgore is someone with a direct connection to the mysterious inciting incident, who was also teased to be part of the mysterious conspiracy with Kris in the Holiday House segment. We got almost no new information on Asgore himself nor the incident, and the chapter ends with no questions answered and nothing resolved. This contrasts with the end of Chapter 3 where amidst our silly jaunt we get coldwater splashed in our face: The Big Bad reveals itself and beats the piss out of the party, Toriel is almost captured, Undyne is captured and taken to the Shelter, and we're given our first big, blaring sign that our dark world adventures are not inconsequential.

Chapter 3 also has a distinct lack of carpet munching and gay niggers.

 

[Cryogonal2]

I was also mad about the continuing trend of his emasculation. Toby couldn't even let Asgore have one good moment to get his shit together to fight back the knight before being dragged off.

asgore was caught by surprise, undyne caught the knight by surprise. what do you expect?

 

[Großmann]

I get that it's supposed to be the "one last adventure before things get serious" chapter but we already fucking had that.

It was Chapter 3.

Did it really sell itself as that though? I don’t remember this being stated in the game, only inferred by people online. Chapter 5, however, actually states as much through Flowery.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Kinda funny how when Asgore kicks you out of the Dark World the first time, Ralsei sees him a single time and then just fucking, hides in a bush.
There doesn't seem to be any special reason to protect Asgore really, either. Asgore sees unhatted Ralsei at the end of the game and goes "huh, kinda looks like Asriel? But... the more I look, the less he seems like a monster at all..." or some shit like that.
The odds that Ralsei knew what Asgore was about to do to kick Kris and Susie out of the Dark World and hid instead are quite high. But if he were just a normal object based Darkner, what would the problem even really be? Kris and Susie could just bring him back as whatever object he turns out to be.

But I think that's the big twist with Ralsei in that he's not a Darkner at all. Whether he's a plantner or something else entirely, he obviously couldn't leave the Dark World at all. Hell, this also ties back in to the whole "I can't go to the festival with you, Susie" thing, because if he were a true Darkner then he just... could do that. He could just be carried around and he'd experience everything that way.
Lil Goat faggot is STILL hiding shit.