Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

[Dorothy]

Unlike the genocide route, I don't think the reason to do the snowgrave route is for the "shits and giggles" like in Undertale. The Chapter 7 ending is going to be unsatisfying, so Snowgrave will be us attempting to do something about it.

I also don't really feel bad for Kris, he's a little shit.

 

[Irrational Exuberance]

tl;dr: watch this.

So apparently Toby took inspiration (a fair bit, it seems) from not only Mother 2/Earthbound, but also the original Mother/Earthbound Beginnings. The fact that Sans gives you a piece of crumbly bread in the Weird Route could be linked to a famous out-of-bounds glitch in Mother; in that game, normally using the "Bread" item displays the message ("[Character] broke the bread and began leaving a trail of crumbs") and sets a marker (linked to the character) for the game to reference when using the "Crumbs" replacement item to teleport back to that location.

However, if that particular character should leave the party and the "Crumbs" item is used, the game gets confused and sends you...someplace else.



Someplace...familiar. (As seen in Chapter 3's visit to Mancountry).



Now, near the end of the Lake scene, the color changes from the normal tones to something monocrome.



This could imply that Sans is in on the whole effort by Kris to break the boundaries of their "cage", and that the Chapter 6 Weird Route is outside the bounds of "My Deltarune".

From the comments of this video:

I want to mention: What does Noelle do to clip Kris out of bounds with her? She holds their hands and walks backwards.In the Normal Route, What does Ralsei do to get Kris past the spikes in order to ask Flowery for help on the puzzle?He holds their hands and walks backwards.The Breadcrumbs glitch was patched in the English version of Mother 1, but if you have a walk-through-walls cheat activated, there's an alternative setup you can perform... at **Reindeer** Train Station.Tricky Tony. Your devious tricks...

you're onto something here, but i think you neglected an important thing with the bread crumbs glitch that i think is a lot more important.to execute the bread crumbs glitch, you need to have pippi in your party and give them to her, make her leave a trail, then take the crumbs back from her when she returns to the mayor. in mother 1, pippi is a temporary party member at the start of the game that's kinda infamous for having INSANELY GOOD stat levelling on par with teddy, an intentionally powerful character, for no real reason. just like how noelle is a temporary party member that, for seemingly no real reason, is the only one able to actually kill enemies.i think treating the bread itself as the key to weird route is a bit much, but it's definitely there to evoke the connection if you know about the glitch

 

[Red flag]

It bothers me how much Yellow looks like Glam from Metal Family. It bothers me because Glam's happy go lucky disposition has a very well written back story instead of just being a jolly naive retard faggot.



In fact, it's now my head canon that whoever designed Yellow ripped him off Glam, you can't change my mind.

 

[MisterListerTheBlister]

Actually holy shit, I may be looking into this too much (then again who the fuck isn't here)
But Onion-san got cut up.
He got killed and cut up. Used up, perhaps.
But if he's a monster, shouldn't he just turn into dust when he dies?
I'm starting to think all Lightners bleed.

 

[Slumbie]

Or, he's not actually dead, and it'll be revealed to be a gag later on.

 

[BlerdBjern]

>Susie is a self-insert mary sue warping reality making everyone love her
>Kris started off with a crush on Noelle but now it's shifted to Susie
>by trying to wingman Kris for her we're also playing into that
>not only that but by controlling Kris and picking Susie we the player are being warped into loving her

K-KrusieBros I don't feel so good...

Theres only one way out, you know what it is.

Time to be a [BIG SHOT!] and RAPE THE DOE!

 

[Lapsus of the bepsus]

i think treating the bread itself as the key to weird route is a bit much, but it's definitely there to evoke the connection if you know about the glitch

theres some secret dialogue that hammers this in with real force, this is not a fucking coincidence.

Oh shit, secret dialogue was found if you make the Honey Toast at the start of the game and then fuckin sprint out of the house and give it to Asgore, instead.
Breadcrumbs mentioned, and also more evidence that both Asriel AND Kris were really into the Doe Sisters (There's also Toriel's computer wallpaper showing Asriel and Kris during the winter having both built snowmen with antlers)
Ver archivo adjunto 9199994
What the fuck is Toby planning?

 

[The Fatriarchy]

It bothers me how much Yellow looks like Glam from Metal Family. It bothers me because Glam's happy go lucky disposition has a very well written back story instead of just being a jolly naive retard faggot.

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In fact, it's now my head canon that whoever designed Yellow ripped him off Glam, you can't change my mind.

Don't know if anyone said it in this thread since I just popped in on this page, but I think Green is based off of something too. That design is way too familiar. Then again, all I know Toby Fox for is copying things others did in all of his various works, so I can't exactly be surprised.

 

[Newcomer 42]

This will be a long wait. I hope Chapter 6 comes out with Chapter 7 for a nice surprise.

Those thinking that Toby will break the cute lesbo couple need a reminder that Tobyman was seen wearing a dress. At best, the two will still think they can make it work if they take it slowly. There's no way that the lesbo-couple would be nullified. That risks Toby being cancelled for homophobia or something and as well as risking being shot. Or how gay most of the flower OCs were, he should have been able to ask his team to tone it down, but nope.

Suzie pretending to be retarded while she rewrites reality around herself sounds something stolen from anime, I believe there are Japanese works with similar premises. Still, having a woman being evil in a Western work is still not possible in 2026 IMO. Carol doesn't count as she'll either be seen an extremist but well-intentioned antagonist like Alphys in UTale, or because she's the equivalent of a white and wealthy blonde woman, who are a fair target. So are women against the woke cult, but I don't see how that angle would fit here.

I also recall reading somewhere that someone could mod in a healthier romance path in the game once the full game is out, depending on how the story goes. Big kek. That mod would be banned everywhere in seconds.

 

[Lapsus of the bepsus]

Suzie pretending to be retarded while she rewrites reality around herself sounds something stolen from anime, I believe there are Japanese works with similar premises.

now that you mention it susie is kind of a similar character to haruhi, an edgy schoolgirl character from a 2006 meme anime who unknowingly bends reality to her whim. the main character in that anime is strung along for the ride after she inserts herself into his life and is a sarcastic cunt who pretends to hate dealing with her shit while internally he slowly grows to like her and effectively is also sucked into the vortex. iirc another two of the characters are a weird guy who happens to look and act a lot like flowery and turns out to be an alien glowie or something, and a quiet autistic nerd chick.

notably this anime engaged in tobert-esque meta fuckery around 2008 when they aired the exact same episode 8 times in a row, each time shot from slightly different angles but depicting the exact same events, to illustrate a time loop happening in the story

i can see a few parallels there but by today this isnt such an uncommon story concept

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

I think you're overthinking it. Undertale-verse monsters don't bleed, Deltarune-verse monsters do.

I think you're not overthinking ENOUGH! There's enough context clues in Deltarune, like Gerson still turning into dust, and there's also this scene:

To tell that Monsters probably aren't supposed to bleed. There's also the fact that there's a connection both Susie and Sans (the only two 'monsters' ever confirmed to bleed) have to the weird Gaster shit going on. Not to mention how we know that Monsters are meant to turn to dust when they're killed, but whatever the Goners did to Onion-san meant that it didn't turn to dust when they decided to turn it into Takoyaki. "It's only 2g. It's only free."
Susie is an exceptionally weird character, just overshadowed by how suspicious the shit going on around her is on the parts of Kris and Ralsei, but let's not forget that this is the girl who has just decided that "actually, why are you the only one who can *ACT? I can do that too!" Or doing stuff like learning Ralsei's healing magic the moment that Kris isn't around.
Breaking the rules but in less blatant "go fuck yourself" ways that Sans does it. (The whole idea that Sans bled ketchup is a really retarded gag people seem to think would just be pulled on the completely humorless and serious genocide route that has no gags. He's a fucking skeleton anyway, why would cutting him have started making him bleed if it was ketchup? Was he storing it in his bone marrow?)

Also when you think about it, Susie trying to learn everything that Ralsei and Kris can do could just be an indication of her wanting to replace them at some point down the line. "Suzy" is definitely a Gaster Glowie, even if she doesn't know about it herself.

Susie could even be something that would meta-wise be like a modded-in character, somebody who was never actually supposed to exist or at least be a party member, but somebody changed the rules of the game to add her in. But that sort of theory would need more work.

 

[AI generated waifu]

Someone just pointed out a really crazy thing to me, even as he PROCCEEDS into the lake, Kris does his best to help Noelle, using his hands to push her up.

So what you're saying is that Kris deliberately went against Noelle ("Don't let go of my hands"), breaking through the proceed commands just enough to try and barely keep her safe...

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

So what you're saying is that Kris deliberately went against Noelle ("Don't let go of my hands"), breaking through the proceed commands just enough to try and barely keep her safe...

This is what he gets for letting the Childhood Friend relationship stagnate so he can fag it up with a goat that looks like his elder brother and a purple dinosaur that desperately wants to cuck him and treat him like a dog.

Edit: AHHHHHHHHHHHHH FUCK
You know what's always kinda looked like a deer skull?

 

[anliteralidiot]

It bothers me how much Yellow looks like Glam from Metal Family. It bothers me because Glam's happy go lucky disposition has a very well written back story instead of just being a jolly naive retard faggot.

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In fact, it's now my head canon that whoever designed Yellow ripped him off Glam, you can't change my mind.

Dude it's Woody.

It's just Woody. Or Flint, if you have good taste.

The weirdo you posted doesn't even have a hat.

Don't know if anyone said it in this thread since I just popped in on this page, but I think Green is based off of something too. That design is way too familiar. Then again, all I know Toby Fox for is copying things others did in all of his various works, so I can't exactly be surprised.

I think it's just a design from Splendidland. The lopsided eyes are a giveaway, and she's done other characters for the game (hackerman).

 

[Retarded Weeb]

OK, I finished Chapter 5 myself. Overall, outside the weirdness with Susie/Noelle stuff that's impossible to know how to feel about until the game is over and the disappointment of no major answers to mysteries (which is easy enough for me to ignore going in already spoilered that that's the case), I don't think the chapter was actually bad. It still felt about as Deltarune as Deltarune normally is. I'm probably going to forget something, but here's the main points I can think of I want to address. I think I'll split this into two sections.
Susie:

• The festival itself doesn't push the relationship stuff into a particularly weird direction like some people act like it does. It's mostly a bunch of jokes that can be any of the trio's expense depending on which options you choose. What's interesting actually is that all the most serious stuff in the festival is all about Kris/Noelle. Like there's them being the only combination that legit wins the hammer game, but also there's Kris reminiscing about a moment involving Noelle in the past if he's watching the ferris wheel, if you have him write down his and Noelle's names for the King/Queen vote then Noelle will decide to change her vote to Kris instead of Susie ("I still think they deserve to win.") and you can get to ride the ferris wheel with her where she recontextualizes her previous story about riding it with Kris when they were young.
• The lake scene is where it gets really awkward and strange. Does anyone else think Susie comes off as like, desperate? Like she's seems really forceful in trying impress Noelle and match her feelings, but there's not really anything to indicate why. The worst part is the "confession" where Susie says "Whatever way you meant you like me, I like you too." That's such an evasive, almost manipulative thing to say to someone if it wasn't so retarded that no one with any sense (not Noelle) would think it's romantic. Susie is completing avoiding expressing any real feelings from herself to just assure Noelle that she'll be whatever Noelle wants to her be so long as it gets her Noelle's affection.
• Side note: I find it interesting how when Susie is saying that Noelle is stronger than she is, Susie starts to say "I'm only even here because off..." where there's clearly no other continuation to that but Kris, but she stops herself and presses Noelle to continue to distract from it.
• The parts in the Dark World where Susie brings up Noelle kind of reinforce just how shallow it is. Like she's told to pick out a flower that represents a deep moment she had with Noelle, and her answer is a rose to replace the one she ate in front of Noelle in Chapter 4. A complete gag moment where the rose wasn't even meant for Noelle and Susie didn't think anything of it at the time. I would actually go as far as to say that Noelle has more reason to love Susie than Susie does Noelle. Noelle's reason boil down to "Susie is a scary bully, and I'm a crazy masochist, so I want her to be my Dess+Kris replacement and bully me but also protect me." It comes off as shallow and unhealthy, but that is a reason. Susie those effectively knows almost nothing about Noelle at all, and her reasons for liking her are essentially "she's nice" and "her heartbeat felt nice that time I held her an hour ago."
• People are complaining about Susie implying she always had feelings for Noelle and was jealous of Kris for it, and I agree it's bad, but something about how she says it combination with everything gives me the impression that she even necessarily mean that in the sense of "I always liked Noelle" but more in the sense "I was jealous you had someone and I didn't." Like she didn't want Noelle and was mad Kris had her, she was mad Kris had someone period. Also consider her defining love by the other person loving you first. When you combine everything to together, it all seems to point to Susie not actually giving a shit about Noelle at all. She's just desperate for her because she loves the idea of someone who loves her.
• Also, Susie just looking kind of pathetic in this chapter, what with the confirmation that she's sleeping in the school closet and considers this her home over whatever her actual home is like. It makes me wonder if the game is going to pull a reversal and have you needing to shut it all down at the very end for the sake of Susie's mental health or something. And really, her saying the bit of hanging out she did with Kris and Noelle at the festival is one of the greatest days of her life comes off as less romantic and more kind of sad, like wow, she must really not have much going for her at all.

Everything Else:

• So there is indeed a scene where you think of Ralsei and the scene cuts to him. What I find interesting here is that if you pick the "correct" option at the end, he says to himself something like "Kris really is thinking of me!" The way it's set up, Susie picked the purple voucher, and you're given the choice between the blue and green ones. Without context, it seems like you should pick blue because those are Kris and Ralsei's colors respectively, but if you thought of Ralsei and watched the scene then you known Ralsei wants the blue one. It kind of seems Ralsei knows exactly what you're doing if you think of him here, and is taking your choice as proof of it. No, I don't think it has anything to do with Ralsei going to troon out, that's retarded.
• I actually didn't find the flowers particularly obnoxious or anything, like a lot of people seem to. Aqua, Seth, and Orange pretty much felt like things Toby would write. The writing and jokes with Yellow felt a little off from normal, but not bad on his own. I think the only weird ones are Green and Blue. The way everyone just instantly loves Green to an almost exaggerated degree makes them feel some staff member's OC poochie, and the fact they're silent I think is why people here aren't complaining about them much or even like them. Blue is so obvious just a gay nigger that it made me crack up laughing when he first appeared. Like he's even got a face sprite for dialogue at first when none of the other non-Flowery flowers do, and he looks like a caricature. With him also being the least jokey one, he definitely also feels like a character submitted by someone else and Toby let it pass.
• I've seen a bunch of people cringing over the explicit talk about gender from the flowers in one or two scenes, but within the context it seemed normal to me because it's just an extension of their thing with trying to be "human". Like they're focusing on a piece of identity like that because it's part of how they establish themselves as human. They avoid even going into non-binary shit by presenting Seth more like she's just a chuuni retard who couldn't pick a gender rather than it being a specific identity she chose.
• On the topic of their human obsession, people talk about this chapter feeling tranny-coded with things, but to be honest, I'm not sure to interpret some of the things said in chapter as anything but anti-transgenderism? Like people will bring up Mad Mew Mew/Pink getting a new, girly body, but the whole thing is about how she needs to accept and work with her body rather than fight against it, which is... kind of the opposite of what a tranny does? Or there's the characters outright questioning Orange's insistence at being a human, and suggesting that she should accept herself for being Orange instead of caring asserting her identity. I don't know, that's just how the talk of identity and such in the chapter ultimately comes off to me.
• Pink fight felt kind of annoying with its gimmicks, though it wasn't that hard. I beat it in two tries. I can see the disappointment since she doesn't have the air of suspense and mystery to her that Jevil or Spamton did, or the plot importance of Gerson. But it doesn't bother me that much, I can see why Toby might decide to just throw a gag optional boss in there as well. Her talk about working with her body does at least have some veiled relevance to Kris's situation.
• Flowery was based and his last stand against the Knight was pretty great. Him using initiating a fight with a Floradinn to trap the Knight in a battle screen was kind of kino.
• I've heard from /v/ before that Toby' favorite Touhou waifu is Ran. Based. It so, then you can definitely feel it here with the Netskie and Netskie Hat. Big fucking fluffy tails, indeed.

Overall, I actually liked it more than I disliked it, but I'm merely cautiously optimistic at best about what futures chapters might do because I have no idea where Toby wants to take the shipping drama.

 

[Dorothy]

This is what he gets for letting the Childhood Friend relationship stagnate so he can fag it up with a goat that looks like his elder brother and a purple dinosaur that desperately wants to cuck him and treat him like a dog.

Edit: AHHHHHHHHHHHHH FUCK
You know what's always kinda looked like a deer skull?
Ver archivo adjunto 9203051

 

[anliteralidiot]

I've heard from /v/ before that Toby' favorite Touhou waifu is Ran. Based. It so, then you can definitely feel it here with the Netskie and Netskie Hat. Big fucking fluffy tails, indeed.

He's said as much himself.

 

[Eternal Struggler]

Finished chapter 5 yesterday.

I'm not going to repeat what everyone has already said, but I had a hunch it wasn't going to be as high impact as chapter 4 and I was right. It was still overall an enjoyable chapter.

I'm glad Asgore turned out the way he did in this chapter, except that fact it's kinda sad that we don't fight him in any way. Still way better than how he was treated in Undertale's True Pacifist route.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Personally, I find the idea of prime Gerson in Undertale smashing Seth to paste with a comically large hammer and then selling their shit in his shop to the next human he meets to be extremely fucking funny.

 

[Dracula]

I hope Chapter 6 comes out with Chapter 7 for a nice surprise

Imagine if only ch6 releases and it covers the normal route. If you picked weird route, tough shit, wait until ch7. Maybe even longer.
The chances of all of all the yuri shit in ch5, including the preparation for Noel arrival, being discarded in a fakeout are pretty low.
Personallt I'm betting on ch6 being created exclusively so that Toby can ship the Dino and the Doe every second both are on screen, while all the revelation are delegated into ch7.
If he's taking a nose dive right after high note, might as well go for gold.