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Maybe we can at least agree that even if this is some kind of 10D underwater backgammon move from Toby, he should’ve waited to release Chapters 5 and 6 together so the fanbase wouldn’t be left speculating for a year about how much of a hack he is or isn’t.
Oh definitely.
Though there is a part of me that thinks if he does have a big brain twist planned, that he actually wants his genuinely invested players to feel like shit until the next chapter comes along.
Maybe we can at least agree that even if this is some kind of 10D underwater backgammon move from Toby, he should’ve waited to release Chapters 5 and 6 together so the fanbase wouldn’t be left speculating for a year about how much of a hack he is or isn’t.
Maybe we can at least agree that even if this is some kind of 10D underwater backgammon move from Toby, he should’ve waited to release Chapters 5 and 6 together so the fanbase wouldn’t be left speculating for a year about how much of a hack he is or isn’t.
Nooo, we're just a bunch of idiots who don't know how storytelling works! We needed a break from all the crazy shit that happened in 4. MOAR FAGGOTRY, MOAR SHIT NO ONE CARES ABOUT, DECENT PLATFORMING BUT NOTHING TO MAKE YOU WANT TO PUSH FURTHER!
Balance? In my fagslop? It's less likely than you think!
Oh definitely.
Though there is a part of me that thinks if he does have a big brain twist planned, that he actually wants his genuinely invested players to feel like shit until the next chapter comes along.
Just thinking on what you've been writing in the thread, if we give Toby the benefit of the doubt (and a fucking truckload at that), then Susie positioning herself as the protagonist over Kris would make Chapter 5's weird tone make sense in the broad narrative scope. Considering Susie smashed the most important part of the prophecy, it probably had something to do with her sacrificing herself or needing to die. Something that must happen that she does not want, in either case.
We know that Deltarune's whole schtick is that your choices don't matter because there is a prophecy. That might be true, but one way to skirt around the outcome of a prophecy is to change your role in it. What if Susie is trying to change her role in the prophecy (say, from 'dragon' to 'hero' by wooing the 'princess')?
The prophecy comes true but you're no longer in the firing line. And the rest of the universe starts changing to make the 'hero', Kris, the one who either turns, or dies, or both.
The prophecy comes true but you're no longer in the firing line. And the rest of the universe starts changing to make the 'hero', Kris, the one who either turns, or dies, or both.
Nooo, we're just a bunch of idiots who don't know how storytelling works! We needed a break from all the crazy shit that happened in 4. MOAR FAGGOTRY, MOAR SHIT NO ONE CARES ABOUT, DECENT PLATFORMING BUT NOTHING TO MAKE YOU WANT TO PUSH FURTHER!
Balance? In my fagslop? It's less likely than you think!
The "one last silly haha guys, before it gets real" should have been a bait and switch and forced the seriousness to happen half way through. A year or two ago I was expecting the festival to be the moment that a bunch of dark worlds opened up at the same time and things would go nuts.
Well things did go nuts, but not in a good way.
The "one last silly haha guys, before it gets real" should have been a bait and switch and forced the seriousness to happen half way through. A year or two ago I was expecting the festival to be the moment that a bunch of dark worlds opened up at the same time and things would go nuts.
Well things did go nuts, but not in a good way.
Ironically, given the circumstances, Susie is Griffith fucking Kris' love interest, and Kris is the one fighting against fate.
Even more so if you buy into the altered prophecy theory I'm starting to spread.
I wish we got to see some NEW NPCs for the festival. Bring back Muffet, let her run a stand especially frustrating when mad mew implies she got her soul-changing tonic from muffet to begin with. Have some out-of-towners come by. Show Kris's classmates' parents doing something!
Truly fascinating how any criticism about his chapter keeps it to the pacing, lack of plot development, lack of investment in the flowers. Meanwhile any praise of the chapter is just GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY.
You really can take a shit on a Deltatroon fan's plate if you just stick a pride flag on it.
Initially I wanted to write up a massive, scathing rant on how awful this Chapter was, and how this game is doomed to end in a shitty, unsatisfying way just like countless other pieces of media over the last ten years alone. Upon reflection however, I've mellowed out a bit, and now I'm of the opinion that this Chapter is merely the weakest thus far.
- One thing that really stuck out to me was the lighting in this chapter; there are a lot more scenes that take advantage of sunsets and shadowy areas. I'm not sure how impressive the implementation of swapping between Overworld and 2D platforming is, from a technical standpoint, but I was enjoying them...up to a point. I think the game's framerate being capped at 30 limits the 2D sections from being too challenging. They also only have one puzzle that involves swapping between both modes, which was a bit disappointing. On the whole though it's nice to see the game get more technically impressive with each chapter.
- There really is no excuse at how sloppy and rushed this Suselle relationship was written, lol. It's [the Year of Our Lord], teenage lesbian romances are nothing new now. There are better written, more naturally developed romances out there; hell, I'd argue even Undyne and Alphys from Undertale had a more naturally developing relationship. The pacing of their relationship was already annoying with Chapter 4's Holliday Mansion scene, and if this kind of thing continues into Chapter 6, it has the potential to bring the entire game's writing down with it.
- No pun intended, Flowery eventually grew on me as the Chapter antagonist. I think him and Ralsei are two sides of the same coin, and not just due to the Asriel connection. Both of them are Darkners that care deeply for their respective Lightners, the difference being that Flowery is selfishly embracing his personal desire to keep Asgore in his own little Dark World, even if it means Flowery would literally wilt and die. Ralsei has been conflicted in previous chapters about developing a personality because he's uniquely aware of the nature of his existence: how he's not real, and that he'll never be an adequate substitute for making friends in the Light World, and how the more he allows the Lightners to become friends with him, the more it's going to hurt when he inevitably has to leave. There was that one other thing Ralsei was alluding to about how, if he were to do what Flowery was doing "everything would fall apart"; can someone remind me what Ralsei meant by that?
- As for the rest of the flowers, they were a mixed bag. Aqua and Seth clearly stole the show: they had the best designs, they played off each other well, and Aqua in particular fit the Japanese theming the best. Orange and Green also kind of worked a bit, with the Strong, Silent Type and the Short, Angry Type bouncing off each other well. Blue and Yellow kind of fall apart though. Yellow is basically a dumb himbo who's a bit too emotional for his own good. Contrast that with Blue, who's...also emotional, and swoons over Yellow? I think it would've worked if Blue was a bit more taciturn and less emotional, like an overly strict dancing instructor.
- The music, while it had its highlights with Flower Man and Petal Dance, felt a little less impressive than previous chapters, probably due to the Japanese theming; some of the area tracks felt like they could've been in any Japanese-themed RPG and very few people would've noticed. I didn't mind the secret boss, but I feel like, if you really wanted to go all-out, why not go full weeb and make the boss battle a rhythm-based minigame ala Osu or DDR or any of those other rhythm-based arcade machines I've seen at arcades that are all set to anime opening music and vtuber songs? That would've been not only funnier, but also a more memorable presentation.
When I first heard that Field of Hopes and Dreams cover by insaneintherain I was initially ecstatic over one of my favorite covers making it into the official game. However, as the section started to drag on with Ralsei constantly making references to Chapter 1, I started getting this sinking feeling in my stomach that Deltarune was becoming too self-referential and indulgent for its own good. This is, by the way, ignoring the blatant Undertale nostalgia pandering, which I'm choosing to ignore because I feel its still possible for someone to play this game without having played Undertale and still appreciate it. I checked my save file around the third time Ralsei referenced Chapter 1, and I was about 16 hours into the game. Is it a good sign if your game is getting nostalgia over things that happened 16 hours ago?
I typically don't like getting involved in ARPGs or Theory Crafting, as it tends to lead to cases of immense disappointment over lofty expectations and reading way too much between the lines. I'm not going to let this one bad chapter color the entire experience for me just yet, since we don't have the full story, but this chapter has certainly tempered my expectations to a much lower level than before; I'm not expecting anything as mind-bending as Undertale was when I first played it, unspoiled, during a time where I felt pretty ambivalent towards most RPG writing, and video game writing in general.
Edit: I forgot to add, since I've been holding onto all of my Shadow Crystals since Ch. 1, I've been using them in various places throughout the chapter, just to see what kind of results I get. Ch. 5 was pretty disappointing; most of the time I just got the response of "Doesn't seem very useful", however when I used it right at the beginning of Ch. 5, you get this dialogue:
What could this be alluding to? Is there a darker timeline where Toriel hooks up with Sans or something?
Just thinking on what you've been writing in the thread, if we give Toby the benefit of the doubt (and a fucking truckload at that), then Susie positioning herself as the protagonist over Kris would make Chapter 5's weird tone make sense in the broad narrative scope. Considering Susie smashed the most important part of the prophecy, it probably had something to do with her sacrificing herself or needing to die. Something that must happen that she does not want, in either case.
We know that Deltarune's whole schtick is that your choices don't matter because there is a prophecy. That might be true, but one way to skirt around the outcome of a prophecy is to change your role in it. What if Susie is trying to change her role in the prophecy (say, from 'dragon' to 'hero' by wooing the 'princess')?
The prophecy comes true but you're no longer in the firing line. And the rest of the universe starts changing to make the 'hero', Kris, the one who either turns, or dies, or both.
I'll be mildly impressed if Toby goes the "you can't fight fate, every action you take is already set in stone" route (a la oedipus' parents sending him away to prevent the prophecy and this resulting in him unwittingly killing his father suspecting he was a highwayman and fucking his mother.) and Kris fulfills the OG prophecy because he gets so intensely jealous of Susie and Noelle he kills one of them (as implied by the prophecy and "without play the knife grows dull" stuff which indicates he's done it before). I'd be even more impressed if there ends up being some kind of New Game+ where the first time around affects the second time around, but I don't expect Toby to be that clever. I just want to know where the hand thing comes in. It seems less like he's going to lose it and more like it was just a metaphor for losing Noelle's sister after trying to save her.
Anyway, I'm really starting to truly believe the usurped hero twist here. If that's actually what Susie is after doing, then she'd also need to know she'd need Kris for a Human Soul to seal the fountain. Keeping Kris around as a annoying but required third wheel even though it's clear that at a certain point in Chapter 5, neither of them actually give a fuck about Kris passing out on a table while the world colludes to make shit continue to happen that doesn't make any fucking sense.
Though if Kris was originally one of the other Heroes (the Prince in the Dark is the only one that makes sense, though he is technically a prince because of the Festival Royalty shit in the loosest terms) and is now in the role of the Cage, it's kind of no wonder why people just sorta... ignore him. If the Vessel was the original Cage, then it'd basically just be a mannequin for all intents and purposes while actual characters did shit.
If I'm right, we will all have to kneel to Toby for playing into people's expectations with yurislop only to send everyone on a wild ride.
But can a man remember to fap before he writes, that is the million dollar question.
If I'm right, we will all have to kneel to Toby for playing into people's expectations with yurislop only to send everyone on a wild ride.
But can a man remember to fap before he writes, that is the million dollar question.
