Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

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Slumbie dijo:
It feels like a shameless ripoff of what Super Paper Mario did, but 10 times less cool with no time to flesh out the mechanic. I really can't think of any clever uses for the 2D sections. I really like 2D platformers, this just it just felt barebones. This is development time that could of gone into the rest of the chapter or making the Mad Mew Mew more than a handful of attacks. The game has been moving further and further from the actual RPG/Bullet Hell gameplay I actually like in order to do some new gimmick every five seconds and I hate it.
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This is only tangentially related, but this made me realize something about the way the shadowbosses (I'm not counting the Roaring Knight here, that's a seperate beast tbh) are designed, and how much Pink sucks.

Jevil's encounter is pretty simple - go find 3 key pieces, get them repaired by the hammer guy, go fight Jevil. Not exactly rocket science, but it's the first chapter and the pattern is being established.

Spamton's encounter is similar, but there's a twist; the teacup mechanic from previous parts of the chapter is preventing you from simply returning from the mansion basement to deliver the disk. It's a good obstacle to put in the way to judge the player's skill up to this point, since they've been doing it occasionally for the past few hours and will probably get it down in like 1-5 attempts if they're ready.

The Mantle requires the player to be good enough at the NES boards to complete all of them with a high score, and see the scene where Tenna has to stop Kris' exploration before they start to find unused assets from the MANTLE game. As a reward, the player is given a hefty amount of insight on the weird route via the ensuing SWORD boards AND is pushed to follow through with at least one of the chapter's actual threats.

Gerson requires the player to find parts of a piano recital, then play parts of that recital on a piano found elsewhere, just like the big piano that Kris plays at the top of the first sanctuary. It's not as convoluted as the Mantle shenanigans, since it's a little more involved in the story and Susie's character development, but it's fun nonetheless.

And then Pink ruins the entire pattern. The P$ aren't exclusively available from platforming challenges, even if the majority of them require some involvement with the 2D space to be cut down. There's no hideously difficult 2D section where Kris has to run along a huge stretch with a bunch of incredibly tightly-timed jumps, or a little section with a unique miniboss that actually puts up a fight in 2D mode. The single notable pink coin room I can think of involved Shinobeetles tossing shurikens from the background into the foreground, which was really easy and only gets you a single P$. What the fuck happened with this chapter??
 
As someone who first played Deltarune when there was only one chapter, this whole experience has felt like a bad dream where things screwed up in a way that didn't even make sense. I didn't mind chapter 3 being a filler chapter since it was very fun and had at least a bit of story progression at the end, this chapter is neither. We were lead on with serious lore stuff happening with the phone call between Kris and Carroll. If Toby wasn't stupid he would have used this chapter to progress the story some more and answer at least a few of the 20 unanswered questions. He did not do this and instead give us 4~ hours of yurislop, a bunch of SNCA characters, a terrible implementation of Asgore, the festival sucking ass, and no Dess/Asriel/Papyrus info.

The new antagonist is fucking horrible and I just did not care for him in the slightest. It is terrible from a fanservice perspective too, as everyone wanted Asgore to be involved and not just standing by the side shitting himself. Also I already said this but the sequence where Kris opens the fountain is the dumbest shit ever. The only explanation for this new chapter's writing quality is that Toby has begun smoking crack. Somehow even the music sucks. There are two good things about this chapter, the gameplay and the Pizzapants segment, everything else can go fuck itself. To think we waited a year for this steaming pile of donkey feces. This is probably how Tucker Carlson felt when they changed the green m&m design.
 
Saw on twitter that some people were reporting that Jackenstein was dead in their Chapter 5 playthrough, which is impossible since he can't be hit with attacks. People dug through the files and apparently killing the Titan-Spawn kills Jackenstein.
 
Cucktry Roads dijo:
Saw on twitter that some people were reporting that Jackenstein was dead in their Chapter 5 playthrough, which is impossible since he can't be hit with attacks. People dug through the files and apparently killing the Titan-Spawn kills Jackenstein.
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>Don't be too violent while slaughtering the progenies of darkness!

:stress:
 
Cucktry Roads dijo:
Saw on twitter that some people were reporting that Jackenstein was dead in their Chapter 5 playthrough, which is impossible since he can't be hit with attacks. People dug through the files and apparently killing the Titan-Spawn kills Jackenstein.
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Like, even if you recruited everyone in Chapter 4? Because Jackenstein could die in Chapter 4 if you didn't recruit everyone before reaching the room right before the Titan fight.
 
This is incredibly fucking stupid to ask but I trust this thread more than I trust trying to go to a wiki considering the troons that run it:
What exactly makes Mad Dummy & the catgirl it transforms into a tranny?
Like Mad Dummy is an "it" from the beginning, right? Not a "he", but just it taking over a catgirl anime figure and being enough of a freak to like it, but since that happened, now troons just latch into it thinking all they gotta do is take the troonshine and they can be just like the dumbass dummy who possesses an anime figurine?
Slumbie dijo:
Something I've been thinking about, is the 2D platforming even that cool? [snip]
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It's honestly clever for the game imo. Selecting an act really isn't much of a momentum killer since it saves your momentum and you really aren't doing it that often. Then again I also suffered through some of the Shantae games and they know how to fucking kill momentum (aside from Pirate's Curse) so maybe this just feels less bad.
Now one issue I do have is that, as far as I know? Nothing can actually make you die in those sections, just bring you to 1HP. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm not willing to suffer this chapter again to check.
 
MisterListerTheBlister dijo:
What exactly makes Mad Dummy & the catgirl it transforms into a tranny?
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Nothing. Troons are so desperate to have their world view confirmed that they automatically assume that any instance of an unspecified gender automatically means the being is nonbinary, or trans, or what have you. Regardless of whether the materials states as such.

This kinda shit came to a head when Toby Fox referred to Napstablook as a he during the anniversary stream, and trannies started pouring out of the walls like scarabs in The Mummy to correct and berate him.
 
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Vernerus dijo:
This came to a head when Toby Fox referred to Napstablook as a he during the anniversary stream, and trannies started pouring out of the walls like scarabs in The Mummy to correct and berate him.
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Toby is either going to end up like Alec Holowka if he keeps on appeasing them, it's that or he's starting to become a tranny if Ralsei story progressing relates to Toby in some way.
 
MisterListerTheBlister dijo:
This is incredibly fucking stupid to ask but I trust this thread more than I trust trying to go to a wiki considering the troons that run it:
What exactly makes Mad Dummy & the catgirl it transforms into a tranny?
Like Mad Dummy is an "it" from the beginning, right? Not a "he", but just it taking over a catgirl anime figure and being enough of a freak to like it, but since that happened, now troons just latch into it thinking all they gotta do is take the troonshine and they can be just like the dumbass dummy who possesses an anime figurine? [snip]
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You're right, the ghosts (Mettaton, Napstablook and the Mad Dummy, who never actually has a name in ghost form) are all neutral and referred to as "they" or "it". It changes once they fuse with a body, a process that happens when they're possessing the host object and experience raw, unfiltered emotion.

If you're playing the Switch version of Undertale, a life-sized talking doll of Mew Mew Kissy Cutie (the anime character Alphys likes) can be found in an isolated room. It's possessed by the same ghost as the Mad Dummy, who feels like they've finally found their perfect body and has even started to pick up some of the doll's mannerisms (the menu also starts to refer to it as she/her in this fight). Instead of indulging the vengeful ghost, Frisk waits for the ghost to wear itself out, then tells them that love might be the solution to fusing with their body instead of hate. The battle ends with the ghost remarking that it "might take a while to get used to this new body" before it flies out of the room. The doll appears in the dummy's place for the Switch version's Pacifist ending, implying that this ends up being its new body, now referred to as [Mad] Mew Mew.

Basically she's not actually a tranny but a pastel-hungry man thinks of pastel pink bread. The overly-feminine design, constant meowing and anime references also aren't helping her unfortunyately.

As a bonus fun fact, the only reason Pink uses the purple soul effect in her fight is because Spider Dance (Muffet's theme in UT) is extremely similar to Napstablook and Mad Dummy's themes, which is kinda fucking stupid lmao
 
The purple soul gimmick kind of makes me wish it was just Muffet instead. Speaking of which, where the hell was she? The festival was the perfect time for her to show up for a cameo, she's even mentioned in the Mad Mew Mew fight. Is Toby like Tetsuya Nomura or something and dislikes characters he didn't create?
 
Cucktry Roads dijo:
Saw on twitter that some people were reporting that Jackenstein was dead in their Chapter 5 playthrough, which is impossible since he can't be hit with attacks. People dug through the files and apparently killing the Titan-Spawn kills Jackenstein.
Presiona para expandir...
Wtf? That's why he wasn't in the cafe in my game? I have to replay it??
Egress dijo:
If he puts Muffet in, the guy who payed to put his fat fetish furry butter dragon OC into undertale will try to force him into putting his fat fetish furry butter dragon OC into Deltarune again.
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Dude, Samael is trans now and hangs out on discord servers with dangerous sex pests. It's really fucked. If you look up his art you can see that he gets off to furries biting eachother into pieces and stuff.
 
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Symbol of the Chud dijo:
Do they self rezz just to fuck you over?
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They get up to heal him and fall down again. Absolutely ass. I also wasn't aware that the MegaMan Sprite guy trooned out, dammit.
Cucktry Roads dijo:
Saw on twitter that some people were reporting that Jackenstein was dead in their Chapter 5 playthrough, which is impossible since he can't be hit with attacks. People dug through the files and apparently killing the Titan-Spawn kills Jackenstein.
Presiona para expandir...
It's a bug I hope. This is what happens if you hurt Darkners in Chapter 4.
 
All this fucking budget and they can't even do basic bug checking lmfao.
I also had a softlock issue in the Chapter 5 secret boss where I tried to use a TensionMax + Ralsei's Sweet Boy on its final phase (which for the latter is all my fault since it was my first go-around and I was on the wire, but regardless) and the text just overlapped with each other and I was unable to advance.
Also thanks for your answers. All I can really say is fucking Christ what a mess.
 
Egress dijo:
If he puts Muffet in, the guy who payed to put his fat fetish furry butter dragon OC into undertale will try to force him into putting his fat fetish furry butter dragon OC into Deltarune again.
Presiona para expandir...
I could honestly see Toby pulling a stunt similar to what Yacht Club Games did with Reize in Specter of Torment. Taking the original character, looking at specific criteria the creator had written for them, and then completely flipping it to create a mockery out of it (but apparently he's okay with it now? Coping mechanism?)

Seizui, Reize's designer, has a whole site of characteristics, artwork and other information for him that I can only describe as "profoundly autistic" and includes things like mentioning how he's a naive kid who's against killing and can even resist corruption to some degree. The moment he shows up in SoT, he's immediately corrupted by the Enchantress, becomes extremely chuuni, threatens to kill Specter Knight, and his corruption-drunk body ends up being the final boss of the campaign.

The Deltarune equivalent would probably be an armadillo in shades and a leather jacket that's constantly being rude and pointing out when people use things that don't belong to them.
 
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