Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

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Did you really come here just to sperg?
Do you know which site you're on?
Come on Vyse, you’re better than this.
OK, fine. You want serious discussion about this shit? Here ya go.

Because Undertale/Deltarune were made by small teams, there's a lot less of a barrier between the player and the creator. Some might say it's nonexistent. And this to me, is the games' biggest downfall. Take the infamous moment during the Snowgrave Route in Chapter 4 (you know the one).
But retards thought it was a "deflowering" reference and gaslit themselves into thinking the player raped Noelle or otherwise assaults her during the cut to black.
There is nothing wrong with interpreting this scene as rape, there would be nothing wrong with this interpretation being the intended one, and it was almost certainly initially designed to be interpreted as such. Pretending that Toby Fox has never heard the term "deflowering" is asinine. Pretending that nobody on the development team saw the asset and thought it could be interpreted in such a way is even more asinine. Pretending Toby Fox accidentally wrote a route to the game where you make a girl subservient to you with the climax being alone in her room giving her something she does not want is utterly fucking ridiculous. The line of thought that Toby Fox just waltzed into this big misunderstanding is a result of pretending Toby Fox is an "uwu small bean" that could never write anything uncomfortable or enjoy any storytelling that might not ascribe to someone's personal sensitivities.

Toby Fox nearly immediately patched it out of the game, because it was too interesting. It was too complex, too challenging, too unabashed for Deltarune's audience of wokescolds + high-school freshmen and younger who avert their eyes to anything morally intense. Anything that features uncomfortable content or themes is a no-go in the fictional stories I like, because it must mean the author approves of that. Why else would they write it?

I cannot stress enough how anti-art patching it out is. The point of art is interpretation. Art is a conversation that occurs between the creator and the viewer. If a viewer wants to interpret something like that and it isn't intentional (lol, lmao even), who gives a shit? It's interesting that that connection can be made. In a real video game for people who have progressed past the mental age of 9, this would be a completely acceptable, albeit challenging theme to approach. But since Toby Fox is actually staunchly anti-art, it was quickly patched out. The way it was patched out was also deeply embarrassing, with it quickly being replaced with a singular red pixel before later having a different animation made.
1781281656134.png
Such obviously panicked damage control, and for no reason. Because he made something interesting. Something with grit. Something uncomfortable.
1781281774442.png1781281813596.png1781282028010.png1781282080581.png
But art isn't supposed to make anyone uncomfortable, right?

It's the kind of self indulgence parents do that gets their kids on My 600-Pound Life. And I'm not eating the 10 pounds of Big Macs, Dad. Give me some vegetables.

TL;DR: Toby Fox is too much of a pussy who cucks to his whiny fans instead of sticking to his vision. He doesn't actually respect his audience.
 
Funny how, when the Undertale just came out, I was almost at the age to be its target audience; yet 10 years later, giving Deltarune a try, it feels like it was made for the audience of at least the same, if not even younger, age the audience of the original game was.
I'm sorry but if you're playing DR and enjoying it unironically, I've got bad news for you - you're a manchild, unless you're actually like 15 years old and younger. This shit is legitimately for babies.
 
one of them is getting stabbed, the other one is getting nuked
There is nothing wrong with interpreting this scene as rape, there would be nothing wrong with this interpretation being the intended one, and it was almost certainly initially designed to be interpreted as such
please tell me what you think about the "dess molested kris" theory
 
Toby Fox bending the knee to fan backlash and outcries is in no way farfetched.
I mean just look at this guy-
IMG_6977.webp

Not to mention that his games are obvious queerbait, but heightened further with Deltarune. The humor of both games are also pretty millennial or tumblr esque.

The only reason this cross-dressing, noodle armed, and socially awkward weasel has such a mass following from normies is the stories are at least intricate and captivating, not to mention Undertale basically redefining and/or reviving bullet hells back in the day. Also he has a large Japanese following, but those fuckers haven’t been the same since the bombs dropped anyway.
 
5)This is probably the 2nd important one. As we've already discussed, this is the same attack that Flowey uses in his boss fight in Undertale for the Aqua soul (represents Patience). Will we be fighting something like Flowey? Does it just represent the knife that Kris is known for?
that has to be Kris cyan attack, there's no enemy on the right side, the attack pattern starts from the left. I think we will be fighting Kris which is cool... though I don't like the idea of changing playable characters to Noelle or anyone for that matter for the rest of the story.

We can most likely inhibit other characters taking from what spamton told us in chapter 2.


also, what yall think of it being japanese
 
Yeah, sadly because of its audience, the game will never be able to have a truly depraved evil route.

And despite Deltarune being the more grandiose story, it definitely holds far less edge than Undertale. 4 chapters in and not a single character has really been at risk of dying.

By comparison, Undertale almost feels like Postal 2. You can start murdering right out of the gate, and there is absolutely no downplaying or sugarcoating it. You can stab your goatmom to death in cold blood.
 
Forgot if we discussed this last year, but you can replace Tenna's intro video with whatever you want.
Just go to Steam\steamapps\common\DELTARUNE\chapter3_windows\vid and rename whatever you want as the intro to tennaIntroF1_compressed_28.mp4 and plop it in.
I made a small edit to the intro before showing the game to a friend.
 
Found a really cute comic on Jewtube. The Fandom is so dedicated with the whole they/them bullshit that they have to resort to calling kris they/them even though hes a fucking infant :lossmanjack:
 
Yeah, sadly because of its audience, the game will never be able to have a truly depraved evil route.

And despite Deltarune being the more grandiose story, it definitely holds far less edge than Undertale. 4 chapters in and not a single character has really been at risk of dying.

By comparison, Undertale almost feels like Postal 2. You can start murdering right out of the gate, and there is absolutely no downplaying or sugarcoating it. You can stab your goatmom to death in cold blood.
Now I’m convinced there should be an “ow the edge” react. Also does Berdly being in a coma not count?
 
Funny how, when the Undertale just came out, I was almost at the age to be its target audience; yet 10 years later, giving Deltarune a try, it feels like it was made for the audience of at least the same, if not even younger, age the audience of the original game was.
I'm sorry but if you're playing DR and enjoying it unironically, I've got bad news for you - you're a manchild, unless you're actually like 15 years old and younger. This shit is legitimately for babies.
Aren't you the guy who lost his virginity to a prostitute? You have no right to call other people manchildren when you couldn't even get a woman to willingly have sex with you without paying her.
 
that has to be Kris cyan attack, there's no enemy on the right side, the attack pattern starts from the left. I think we will be fighting Kris which is cool... though I don't like the idea of changing playable characters to Noelle or anyone for that matter for the rest of the story.

We can most likely inhibit other characters taking from what spamton told us in chapter 2.


also, what yall think of it being japanese
Possible since Kris is all about the knife. But 2 counter points

1)Toby has edited characters out of trailers/promotional material before, so there could've be party members and enemies missing

2)If the story does go with human soul flowers, they could do what Flowey does and burrow underground.
 
I mean what I said. These people have never been through any real adversity in their entire lives. So when they encounter unwholesome themes in their "safe space" they freak the fuck out. I would've respected Toby a lot more if he said "no, fuck you, it stays in, this is MY vision." But he pussied out like a little bitch.
 
I mean what I said. These people have never been through any real adversity in their entire lives. So when they encounter unwholesome themes in their "safe space" they freak the fuck out. I would've respected Toby a lot more if he said "no, fuck you, it stays in, this is MY vision." But he pussied out like a little bitch.
I don't think Toby is an" uwu smol bean" who could never ever ever ever write a rape scene ever, but the assertion that he was possessed by the spirit of Judge Holden for multiple years before then immediately deleting his totally intentional rape scene after it was seen as a rape scene is pretty out there. The chances of Fox simply thinking that most people wouldn't interpret it that way and immediately took it out when way too many people did is a far more reasonable and likely option than the alternative.

Toby Fox is not Stanley Kubrick on any day of the week.

This isn't just an abstract artpiece you can have infinite interpretations of. This is a story, one with actual characters and a plotline that's being directly given to us. Wildly different interpretations of a halfway done story lead to wildly different versions of the story going forward, and Noelle being raped dramatically changes the story and relationship between the characters, not to mention the role the player character has in it as they would be the ones that made it happen. The player (as a character) would be directly responsible for a teenage girl being raped by her friend which is a significantly more heavy and pointlessly evil subject than her simply being intentionally corrupted for some nefarious purpose related to the prophecy.

Unless it's followed up on, which it absolutely won't be, Noelle being raped serves zero purpose beyond shock for the sake of shock. You can huff farts about how "gritty" and "real" it would be but for the story that's being presented to us it's no different than the "Dess molested Kris" shit. It does not add anything of actual substance to the rest of the story whatsoever.

"Who cares if people think you wrote a scene of two teenagers being raped in your T for Teen game?" may seem like a reasonable question from a detached, pure art perspective but if you really didn't intend for the scene to be seen that way and your game is being presented by Nintendo it becomes pretty silly.
 
I mean what I said. These people have never been through any real adversity in their entire lives. So when they encounter unwholesome themes in their "safe space" they freak the fuck out. I would've respected Toby a lot more if he said "no, fuck you, it stays in, this is MY vision." But he pussied out like a little bitch.
don't worry, he can't unrape the doe
 
I do think the fact that the weird route exists in-universe as "The Forbidden Path" and is a thing that the characters can directly see via the Sword stuff in Ch 3 as opposed to a purely meta thing like Undertale's genocide route makes the Rape interpretation a lot funnier.

It's essentially an alt-prophecy that you can choose to go after as opposed to the normal one, which would mean that it's literally Noelle's destiny to be raped.
:crocodile:
 
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