Trump Derangement Syndrome - Orange man bad. Read the OP! (ᴛʜɪs ᴛʜʀᴇᴀᴅ ɪs ʟɪᴋᴇ ᴋɪᴡɪ ғᴀʀᴍs ʀᴇᴠɪᴇᴡs ɴᴏᴡ) 🗿🗿🗿🗿

That face looks like the gay spineless version of that one guy on YouTube who does movie reviews, I think it's Jeremy Jahns.

Military fractured in the last civil war. Lincoln offered Lee to be his General of the Potomac or field Marshal equivalent and Lee declined. After trial error we got Grant and Sherman to burn the South to a crisp. And we got characters if offered the chance, will repeat that in the next one to the other side.

<milsperg>
The civil war only went the way it did because it was kept "in house"; both sides were reluctant to reach out for foreign aid (as the war was to be over in like a month, MAX) because the US was still very much "Fuck Europe and their shitty, stupid wars. Fuck them so so hard."; see the Monroe doctrine which was "keep those fucking inbred dicks on their own fucked up continent".
This changed as the war dragged on and the Confederacy's lack of industry and economy based on cash crops/trade meant they NEEDED international assistance. And even then they were fairly tepid about it at the start, for fear of European entanglements any allies would want in return.

The only country that was willing to commit to the Confederate cause was Russia, but it was a sad offering;
Got my script flipped, Russia was sucking union dick.
Russia was still devastated by the effects of the Crimean war, and their navy had be curb stomped by the Brits. Even pretending they had an army to contribute, they had no ships to get them to any where they could do any good. The dire state of Russia is what led them to sell Alaska to the US shortly after the civil war ended.

Britain, at the time, was wanting to play nice (extremely so, they ignored a few international incidents that would have been sufficient cause to at minimum sack-tap the Union) to maintain access to the North's economy; elements were inclined to aid to the Confederates, but the anti-slavery sentiment was still strong which would have made intervention a hard sell. The best the confederacy got was a complete non-intervention in the affair.

France might have intervened, but they were busy and distracted in Mexico; if Lee's mad dash north had come sooner, and produced better results, France might have come in on the Confederate's side in exchange for help later in Mexico. (Which would have likely been a palatable trade off for the Confederates, as Mexico would not -strictly speaking - be a European entanglement.)

I am currently forgetting what the deal with Spain was, as slavery solidarity would have made them a natural ally but they weren't able to be involved. I believe "fucked economy". Again, a stronger Confederate showing might have changed their mind.

Prussia also showed no little-to-no interest in the confederate cause; they were dealing with their own issues, and their economy didn't have much interaction with Confederate cash crops. But again, a stronger confederate showing on the battlefield might have convinced them to pick a side; also possible is if France had broken the Union blockade and allowed Southern trade to resume, they could have hired Prussian mercenaries/ought prussian arms.

The major key point here is that none of the powers of the day were close enough to the US really do anything without making a major commitment to the war.
</milsperg>

Anyway that was a lot of words to say that the world is much smaller now, and America much more important as more than just a trading partner. Civil War 2 will likely turn into World War 3, or at least proxied WW3, as everyone wants the prize of being owed huge favors by the victors. It won't be a local deal like American Civil War was.


(Fun fact, you have women like Adelcia (at the time) Acklen who worked with the Union & Confederates to sell nearly a million dollars of cotton to keep America in the cotton market. Even the Union was thinking of post-war.)
 
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Hold up, I thought the Brits all wanted that sweet, sweet cotton from the south, and did some business with them? I mean that's not to say they couldn't play both sides off against the middle. A forever-weak "Union" and an equally weak "Confederacy" could never separately become a cross-Atlantic threat to them, and they could play games with both sides for years and years.
 
Hold up, I thought the Brits all wanted that sweet, sweet cotton from the south, and did some business with them? I mean that's not to say they couldn't play both sides off against the middle. A forever-weak "Union" and an equally weak "Confederacy" could never separately become a cross-Atlantic threat to them, and they could play games with both sides for years and years.

They did substantial cotton trade with the south, but, were adverse to joining in directly (i.e. - committing troops or putting any real diplomatic pressure on the North to end things),. At closest, they sold the South arms and even went as far as constructing a couple commerce-raiding naval vessels for them, but when the South demanded more concessions and threatened to cut off the cotton trade completely if they didn't get them, the Brits said "Fine, you're on your own, chaps" and went off to grow it themselves in their own Empire in places where the climate allowed it, like Egypt. Egyptian cotton became a thing specifically so Britain didn't have to worry about buying it from abroad, let alone a place that was a diplomatic hot potato.

The fact the South was a slave holding government really was a deal-stopper for anything but minor financial aid and a few arms shipments.
 

Ahh, yess. Good. Commence the cannibalism.

They always turn on each other. No wonder the Democrat party is self destructing.
My prediction is it's going to be a Biden-Harris ticket, because the Dems can't help but play the idpol game.
It's possible. But we could see something like last election where the candidate is a dud like Tim Kaine.
 
<milsperg>
The civil war only went the way it did because it was kept "in house"; both sides were reluctant to reach out for foreign aid (as the war was to be over in like a month, MAX) because the US was still very much "Fuck Europe and their shitty, stupid wars. Fuck them so so hard."; see the Monroe doctrine which was "keep those fucking inbred dicks on their own fucked up continent".
This changed as the war dragged on and the Confederacy's lack of industry and economy based on cash crops/trade meant they NEEDED international assistance. And even then they were fairly tepid about it at the start, for fear of European entanglements any allies would want in return.

The only country that was willing to commit to the Confederate cause was Russia, but it was a sad offering; Russia was still devastated by the effects of the Crimean war, and their navy had be curb stomped by the Brits. Even pretending they had an army to contribute, they had no ships to get them to any where they could do any good. The Confederates had plenty of troops until the final stages of the war; what they lacked was war material and Russia wouldn't have been much help there.
The dire state of Russia is what led them to sell Alaska to the US shortly after the civil war ended.

Britain, at the time, was wanting to play nice (extremely so, they ignored a few international incidents that would have been sufficient cause to at minimum sack-tap the Union) to maintain access to the North's economy; elements were inclined to aid to the Confederates, but the anti-slavery sentiment was still strong which would have made intervention a hard sell. The best the confederacy got was a complete non-intervention in the affair.

France might have intervened, but they were busy and distracted in Mexico; if Lee's mad dash north had come sooner, and produced better results, France might have come in on the Confederate's side in exchange for help later in Mexico. (Which would have likely been a palatable trade off for the Confederates, as Mexico would not -strictly speaking - be a European entanglement.)

I am currently forgetting what the deal with Spain was, as slavery solidarity would have made them a natural ally but they weren't able to be involved. I believe "fucked economy". Again, a stronger Confederate showing might have changed their mind.

Prussia also showed no little-to-no interest in the confederate cause; they were dealing with their own issues, and their economy didn't have much interaction with Confederate cash crops. But again, a stronger confederate showing on the battlefield might have convinced them to pick a side; also possible is if France had broken the Union blockade and allowed Southern trade to resume, they could have hired Prussian mercenaries/ought prussian arms.

The major key point here is that none of the powers of the day were close enough to the US really do anything without making a major commitment to the war.
</milsperg>

Anyway that was a lot of words to say that the world is much smaller now, and America much more important as more than just a trading partner. Civil War 2 will likely turn into World War 3, or at least proxied WW3, as everyone wants the prize of being owed huge favors by the victors. It won't be a local deal like American Civil War was.


(Fun fact, you have women like Adelcia (at the time) Acklen who worked with the Union & Confederates to sell nearly a million dollars of cotton to keep America in the cotton market. Even the Union was thinking of post-war.)
I've heard it the other way round about Russia: that they were pro Union as to be pro Union was considered to be anti British, at least. There were also a few German countries that recognized the Confederacy diplomatically, but noone cared since they weren't Prussia or Austria

The point is in the electric boogaloo it's probably going to be flyover country vs the urban hives
 
I've heard it the other way round about Russia: that they were pro Union as to be pro Union was considered to be anti British, at least. There were also a few German countries that recognized the Confederacy diplomatically, but noone cared since they weren't Prussia or Austria

The point is in the electric boogaloo it's probably going to be flyover country vs the urban hives

Fuck you are right, I got my Russia flipped. I think I got them mixed up with the Spanish.

Hold up, I thought the Brits all wanted that sweet, sweet cotton from the south, and did some business with them? I mean that's not to say they couldn't play both sides off against the middle. A forever-weak "Union" and an equally weak "Confederacy" could never separately become a cross-Atlantic threat to them, and they could play games with both sides for years and years.

They did, but the North's factories, and even more important their whaling industry, were becoming more important than the south's cotton & argiculture. These factored more into British long term thoughts as the war went on.

The Brits (or perhaps more specifically, certain British merchants/businessmen who through their connections could count on being backed by the British government) did business with the Confederates despite what the Union said because they didn't see themselves as involved. The British also allowed the Confederates access to British ports and allowed the last active Confederate raider to surrender to them, sheltering the sailors from Union courts. (The argument being that they viewed their actions as legitimate war time activity, the Union refused to provide assurances that they wouldn't be tried for piracy, and - the real deciding factor here - the British were happy to have experienced sailors with battle experience. I can't remember how the situation resolved, I believe the ship was returned but the crew stayed in england.)

There is some solid "What if" evidence that said business interests would have been able to sway the parliament into invention if it looked like the South could win; especially if it looked like a protracted battle was going to fuck with their access to the American economy.
But its a bit of a catch 22,as the British Invention would have only come if the Confederates hadn't really needed it. The British invention would have also likely come with conditions of a full Union surrender (to keep economic access) which might have rankled some of the Confederate statesmen, including Jefferson Davis.


Doing business despite what the Union said caused some incidents as the Union was a little over eager. This very nearly got the Brits to sack-tap the Union on at least two occassions, but the British government decided to let it go and address it diplomatically. There were tons of good reasons to let it lie: Anti-slavery sympathizers (which was more an anti-confederate than a pro-union stance, fyi), concerns about post-civil war reprisal, and ever brewing trouble closer to home that was more important than picking a fight that didn't really need to be picked, with an opponent you needed to trade with when it was done.

I might not be doing a good job of conveying the sway pro-Confederate factions held in British government, but they were countered, very strongly, by the especially the war-industry who needed iron, gun powder, and cannon more than cotton; and by other merchants who needed whale oil more than anything the south could give them.
 
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Russia actually sent a bunch of ships to randomly go hang out with whatever passed for the union fleet.
There's some speculation that the alaska purchase was also a way to launder some money from the union for services rendered in terms of assistance with the blockade, but that's a bit tenuous.
 
Russia actually sent a bunch of ships to randomly go hang out with whatever passed for the union fleet.
There's some speculation that the alaska purchase was also a way to launder some money from the union for services rendered in terms of assistance with the blockade, but that's a bit tenuous.

Not exactly a bunch (well, compartively; given the state of the Russian of the navy post-crimea, it was apparently quite the show of solidarity) They sent 7 ships to New York and 6 to San Fransico, about a squadron each. They were kept out of the hot areas, and in addition to solidarity would have been a good "Show the flag" mission as Russia tried to recover national pride.
For perspective, the Russians arrived in 1863 when the Union fleet was somewhere around 300 vessels - though some of these were smaller vessels or basically gun-barges that weren't capable of travel under their own power.

Looks like the bigger contribution was Russia's commitment to keeping the pacific Confederate free, which turned out to not be needed, but would have definitely made the Union feel more secure. The fact Russia would be willing to support the Union in the event of a Confederate Naval attack on California would have been huge; with no Panama canal, it would be a month or two before Union naval reinforcments would have been able to arrive. Having friendly ships weeks instead of months away means you can commit more ships to the Atlantic blockades.
 
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*reads intently war history*

Note to self: bait human traps with money

Also, they still think there's going to be a world war 3, robot menace proceeds undetected.
 
Not so sure the report has her running scared.
Word through Ace is that it's going to be a whitewash.
*Word through the Washington Post which Ace took at face value because he's a dipshit who hasn't learned anything after all of these years and still believes the "according to sources familiar with the matter" reporting.

Loads of different outlets--even right-leaning outlets-- have been reporting on that Barr story, but like all good fake news, every single one of them leads directly back to an anonymously-sourced Washington Post story. I hate to come off like a dick but at this stage of the game people really need to quit falling for this crap, especially when all they need to do is wait 5 more days to see the report for themselves.
 
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I hope they go with that. And I hope it works... until he gets on a debate stage with Trump who will proceed to run circles around him while Biden stands there confused. The media and the DNC still don't understand that they can't hide Biden forever.

This game has a boss level and he goes by the name God Emperor.
"OMG DRUMPFT IS SUCH A BULLY SO UNPRESIDENTIAL"
 
The harvest will be rich next year...
EK4MVHMWwAEGcjn.jpeg
 
Hold up, I thought the Brits all wanted that sweet, sweet cotton from the south, and did some business with them? I mean that's not to say they couldn't play both sides off against the middle. A forever-weak "Union" and an equally weak "Confederacy" could never separately become a cross-Atlantic threat to them, and they could play games with both sides for years and years.

Most Brits found slavery abhorrent. Only major textile cities like Manchester were pro-confederacy.
 
One of the Democrats' pet "experts" giving "testimony" earlier out-and-out said that it was completely irrelevant whether Biden had committed any criminal acts or was corrupt when Trump asked the Ukraine to investigate him, the only thing that's relevant is that Orange Man Bad for asking for the investigation.

Getting kinda blatant, aren't they?
 
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